[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Well I would go with statistics from crime per person. Obviously you can’t compare gross numbers… Geez.
[/quote]
Doesn’t Florida have strong stand your ground laws? Those are working out great. Hold on, is a higher number good or bad???[/quote]
Wait, these are from 2006. Some SYG laws weren’t even on the books until 2006.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
As much as you believe the media create hysteria, I believe the gun lobby does the same thing. [/quote]
Yes, Testy, you are so much more sophisticated, erudite, and reasonable than the gun lobby. If only everyone was oh so discerning…[/quote]
well pardner guess we can’t all be folksy geniuses like you[/quote]
And don’t you forget that the next time you decide to look down your long bony nose at the peasants that make up the “hysterical” gun lobby.[/quote]
forget what? that they are all like you?
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
As much as you believe the media create hysteria, I believe the gun lobby does the same thing. [/quote]
Yes, Testy, you are so much more sophisticated, erudite, and reasonable than the gun lobby. If only everyone was oh so discerning…[/quote]
well pardner guess we can’t all be folksy geniuses like you[/quote]
And don’t you forget that the next time you decide to look down your long bony nose at the peasants that make up the “hysterical” gun lobby.[/quote]
forget what? that they are all like you?
[/quote]
If they are, I would be happy.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
As much as you believe the media create hysteria, I believe the gun lobby does the same thing. [/quote]
Yes, Testy, you are so much more sophisticated, erudite, and reasonable than the gun lobby. If only everyone was oh so discerning…[/quote]
well pardner guess we can’t all be folksy geniuses like you[/quote]
And don’t you forget that the next time you decide to look down your long bony nose at the peasants that make up the “hysterical” gun lobby.[/quote]
forget what? that they are all like you?
[/quote]
If they are, I would be happy.[/quote]
I have no issue with push although there are many things on which we disagree. He seems to have an issue with my belief that the gun lobby also plays on hysteria to propagate their message, just as the media does.
I believe in the right of conceal and carry. I believe you should be able to defend yourself on the street and in your home. Not really sure what the issue is unless he is saying the NRA has no agenda.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Well I would go with statistics from crime per person. Obviously you can’t compare gross numbers… Geez.
[/quote]
Doesn’t Florida have strong stand your ground laws? Those are working out great. Hold on, is a higher number good or bad???[/quote]
Seems they are half of D.C.'s which does not have them… If people opt not to stand their ground, it’s their right.[/quote]
50% of DC’s, but 600% of Maine’s which also does not have them…
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I believe in the right of conceal and carry. I believe you should be able to defend yourself on the street and in your home. Not really sure what the issue is unless he is saying the NRA has no agenda.
[/quote]
Um…
The NRA is a lobbying organisation?
[quote]pat wrote:
Wait, these are from 2006. Some SYG laws weren’t even on the books until 2006.[/quote]
Ah good point…here were 2011’s winners
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I believe in the right of conceal and carry. I believe you should be able to defend yourself on the street and in your home. Not really sure what the issue is unless he is saying the NRA has no agenda.
[/quote]
Um…
The NRA is a lobbying organisation?
[/quote]
You serial?
and 2011’s losers…
Source:
From the FBI’s website
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Well I would go with statistics from crime per person. Obviously you can’t compare gross numbers… Geez.
[/quote]
Doesn’t Florida have strong stand your ground laws? Those are working out great. Hold on, is a higher number good or bad???[/quote]
Seems they are half of D.C.'s which does not have them… If people opt not to stand their ground, it’s their right.[/quote]
50% of DC’s, but 600% of Maine’s which also does not have them…
[/quote]
Maine? Maine has 1/600th the population of Florida. Rural areas tend to have less crime. Looking at the stats, gun laws either way do not correlate with the amount of crime. So I don’t think either side has an argument there on a large scale. You would actually have to parse down the crime rates with where the guns actually are or are not to make the connection. Entire states have to many factors. Often crime is concentrated in small areas of the larger land mass heavily skewing the states en masse.
Like NM seems to have a lot of crime issues, but I bet balls on nuts most of it is concentrated on the border.
If you are trying to make an argument to or fro, these stats are 100% useless to you. They show nothing.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Well I would go with statistics from crime per person. Obviously you can’t compare gross numbers… Geez.
[/quote]
Doesn’t Florida have strong stand your ground laws? Those are working out great. Hold on, is a higher number good or bad???[/quote]
Seems they are half of D.C.'s which does not have them… If people opt not to stand their ground, it’s their right.[/quote]
50% of DC’s, but 600% of Maine’s which also does not have them…
[/quote]
Maine? Maine has 1/600th the population of Florida. Rural areas tend to have less crime. Looking at the stats, gun laws either way do not correlate with the amount of crime. So I don’t think either side has an argument there on a large scale. You would actually have to parse down the crime rates with where the guns actually are or are not to make the connection. Entire states have to many factors. Often crime is concentrated in small areas of the larger land mass heavily skewing the states en masse.
Like NM seems to have a lot of crime issues, but I bet balls on nuts most of it is concentrated on the border.
If you are trying to make an argument to or fro, these stats are 100% useless to you. They show nothing.[/quote]
LOL like I said, someone will always try to explain away the data that doesn’t agree with their opinions…I find it particularly hilarious you talk about the population of Maine, but one post before it you were talking about the crime rate in DC, a CITY (not a state) with a mere 600,000 residents.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Please take a look at the crime statistics for the blue states and liberal run cities and get back to me. Where gun control is always heavy. So, yes those states have a higher concentration of criminals. If I were a criminal, I would go where I am going to be protected by the courts at every turn. General common sense there.
[/quote]
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Good keep all the criminals up there too. We enjoy your states being infested with them, so they don’t come here.[/quote]
And this was the exact posts I was posting the data to. I’m sure you guys will come up with all sorts of reasons for why it isn’t valid, and this and that, and whatever…but the fact remains that those “blue states” with 'strict gun control laws" have less crime…
You are free to discuss why that might be till youre blue (or red) in the face…my feeling is that they don’t give away guns with a Big Mac purchase is because they don’t have to…people don’t need to be scared of somebody having a gun to not commit a crime–you don’t need the stick to keep someone from stealing the carrot.
VTBalla34 - would Zimmerman’s self defense case calculate into 1 murder in those statistics supplied? It did not elaborate on how the statistics were formulated.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
VTBalla34 - would Zimmerman’s self defense case calculate into 1 murder in those statistics supplied? It did not elaborate on how the statistics were formulated.[/quote]
Since nobody was murdered, my common sense tells me no. What does yours say?
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
VTBalla34 - would Zimmerman’s self defense case calculate into 1 murder in those statistics supplied? It did not elaborate on how the statistics were formulated.[/quote]
Since nobody was murdered, my common sense tells me no. What does yours say?[/quote]
I did not know that’s why I asked. It could be labelled a homicide, which it was, and could pull into a murder statistical number.
DC numbers are outrageous though.