[quote]orion wrote:
It was a crime.
[/quote]
So, what do we do about it, sit on our ass and wait for the cops to come? We did what we had to do and took out the bastards who were behind it.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Crumbled? As if they were dilapidated structures, doomed to failure on their own. Instead of, you know, attacked. Let’s not forgot the people that were inside those ‘crumbly’ buildings.
Cute. But, you chose the words to your statement in order to trivialize an attack, an act of war, on American soil.
Edit: Don’t play dumb on this. We both know you phrased your statement to miniminze 9-11. “…because two tall building crumbled.”
And you call it an act of war though no sovereign nation stood behind this.
It was a crime.
[/quote]
No. It was an act of war. What sovereign nation did you expect to stand behind it? They don’t have to. They know how the money going to islamic “charities” is being spent. They know the Orion’s of the world fall for such things. Take off the uniforms, and funnel the funding through charities. Now it’s just a “crime.”
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Do not be so simple. You know for a fact that I was arguing against absolute truths. There are no ABSOLUTE truths. All truths are RELATIVE. I believe in the golden rule and always have. There are others who feel it is impractical; therefor it is RELATIVE to what one believes, etc.
I have stated many times that absolute truth is only relevant to individual value judgments and thus is relative to what others believe.[/quote]
C’mon, Lifticus - we can all read. You claimed imperialism was an unequivocal moral wrong. You offered no qualifier of it being “relative”. Once again, you are flopping about because you blathered inconsistent statements.
Now you are back to your previous principle - that there are NO MORAL ABSOLUTES - note the capitalized letters to STRENGTHEN the ARGUMENT, apparently.
So, imperialism is not immoral? If a person or group of people decide that that went act imperially, they are just as justified in that as someone who rejected imperialism as wrong?
That is cool news - it is merely a matter of perspective. Awesome - so slavery is morally the same as freedom, and imperialism is the moral equivalent to respect for sovereignty.
How fun is that?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Crumbled? As if they were dilapidated structures, doomed to failure on their own. Instead of, you know, attacked. Let’s not forgot the people that were inside those ‘crumbly’ buildings.
Cute. But, you chose the words to your statement in order to trivialize an attack, an act of war, on American soil.
Edit: Don’t play dumb on this. We both know you phrased your statement to miniminze 9-11. “…because two tall building crumbled.”
What is there to trivialize about 9/11? The couple of thousands innocents dead? The global repercussions it is having to this day? The subsequent trauma it caused in New York?
For me, the buildings collapse is the most tragic part of the story, and it is what I chose to describe the event.
And you missed my point. I was arguing with Streamline who seemed to believe that the invasion of Afghanistan had anything to do with the way the Talibans were treating the Afghans.[/quote]
Right, so we attacked because “two tall buildings crumbled.” As in, “oh you guys couldn’t be bothered, until some buildings crumbled.” As if we attacked because of some petty structural damage. You’ll back off now, you always do.
Just because I am bored:
The doctrines of imperialism, colonialism, and protectionism eventually destroy all civilizations internally. No nation that follows these doctrines can last for economic reasons. Morally, it is wrong; economically, it is suicide.
“Morally wrong” - asserted as a universal truth…how do we know? Lifticus argues that this is true regardless of the civilization, regardless of the era. He says the “moral wrong” of imperialism will destroy all civilizations eventually, no matter what the civilization believes.
Then Lifticus says:
There are no ABSOLUTE truths. All truths are RELATIVE.
But this directly contradicts the claim that “imperialism” is “morally wrong” regardless of context and will ultimately spell doom for any civilization, regardless of what the civilization thinks or believes.
Saying that imperialism is “morally wrong” and will destroy every civilization is the very definition of asserting that there is a moral truth that transcends individual belief that no one can escape.
Oops.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
orion wrote:
It was a crime.
So, what do we do about it, sit on our ass and wait for the cops to come? We did what we had to do and took out the bastards who were behind it. [/quote]
Sure, and who is bitching about Afghanistan.
Even the German have a few token planes there.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
orion wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Crumbled? As if they were dilapidated structures, doomed to failure on their own. Instead of, you know, attacked. Let’s not forgot the people that were inside those ‘crumbly’ buildings.
Cute. But, you chose the words to your statement in order to trivialize an attack, an act of war, on American soil.
Edit: Don’t play dumb on this. We both know you phrased your statement to miniminze 9-11. “…because two tall building crumbled.”
And you call it an act of war though no sovereign nation stood behind this.
It was a crime.
No. It was an act of war. What sovereign nation did you expect to stand behind it? They don’t have to. They know how the money going to islamic “charities” is being spent. They know the Orion’s of the world fall for such things. Take off the uniforms, and funnel the funding through charities. Now it’s just a “crime.”[/quote]
That is nonsense, since I am very much for killing such people.
I think calling it war is just a way to manipulate the American public and give the government powers it would not have during a mere police operation.
It invokes pictures of WWII, signings on battleships, a foe that can be forced to engage in battle and defeated and so on and thereby creates such a distorted view of this conflict that it is tantamount to lying.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
So, what do we do about it, sit on our ass and wait for the cops to come? We did what we had to do and took out the bastards who were behind it. [/quote]
You did what you had to do. But you got cocky (or dumb) in the process, and decided to take off Iraq while you’re at it.
Not only did that cost you all the post-9/11 sympathy capital, but it also caused things in Afghanistan to worsen.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sloth wrote:
orion wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Crumbled? As if they were dilapidated structures, doomed to failure on their own. Instead of, you know, attacked. Let’s not forgot the people that were inside those ‘crumbly’ buildings.
Cute. But, you chose the words to your statement in order to trivialize an attack, an act of war, on American soil.
Edit: Don’t play dumb on this. We both know you phrased your statement to miniminze 9-11. “…because two tall building crumbled.”
And you call it an act of war though no sovereign nation stood behind this.
It was a crime.
No. It was an act of war. What sovereign nation did you expect to stand behind it? They don’t have to. They know how the money going to islamic “charities” is being spent. They know the Orion’s of the world fall for such things. Take off the uniforms, and funnel the funding through charities. Now it’s just a “crime.”
That is nonsense, since I am very much for killing such people.
I think calling it war is just a way to manipulate the American public and give the government powers it would not have during a mere police operation.
It invokes pictures of WWII, signings on battleships, a foe that can be forced to engage in battle and defeated and so on and thereby creates such a distorted view of this conflict that it is tantamount to lying.
[/quote]
So, because you’re afraid of manipulation, we shouldn’t call it a war? That just makes your argument look naive. This wasn’t about border agents killed by drug smugglers. This was carried out by agents with real potical goals. And, yes, even territorial goals. These are the same people funding/participating in installing regimes in 3rd world countries. Not to mention helping Islamic seperatist groups the world over.
Call it what it is, a war. You can still argue for limited and focused warfare, and still recognize that there really is a war. Trust me, Al Qaeda (and other like minded jihadist groups) aren’t confused about what they’re doing. They’ve gone to war.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Right, so we attacked because “two tall buildings crumbled.” As in, “oh you guys couldn’t be bothered, until some buildings crumbled.” As if we attacked because of some petty structural damage. You’ll back off now, you always do.[/quote]
“Petty structural damage”? What the hell are you talking about? Did you miss the two gigantic planes shoved in there?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Right, so we attacked because “two tall buildings crumbled.” As in, “oh you guys couldn’t be bothered, until some buildings crumbled.” As if we attacked because of some petty structural damage. You’ll back off now, you always do.
“Petty structural damage”? What the hell are you talking about? Did you miss the two gigantic planes shoved in there?[/quote]
Glad to see you remembered.
“And they didn’t invade the country out of pity for the Buddhist artwork, or the oppressed Afghans. They did so because two tall buildings crumbled.”
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Do you believe that “racism” is also a “default condition of most people in the world?” I do. [/quote]
I call BS.
Babies are not racists. The condition develops if people of another race do you harm in one way or another. Adhering to a racist ideology is another possibility. If your mother tells you that your people are chosen by God or some other crap, then chances are that you will grow up to be a racist.
Next thing we know, you’re going to start telling us that murder or rape is a “default condition”.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Next thing we know, you’re going to start telling us that murder or rape is a “default condition”.[/quote]
You don’t seem to have a problem with rape. At least not when it is a teen-aged Iranian girl. In fact, I think you even take the position that the victim deserved because she is a slut.
So is your pedophilia learned, or did it just come naturally?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Do you believe that “racism” is also a “default condition of most people in the world?” I do.
I call BS.
Babies are not racists. The condition develops if people of another race do you harm in one way or another. Adhering to a racist ideology is another possibility. If your mother tells you that your people are chosen by God or some other crap, then chances are that you will grow up to be a racist.
Next thing we know, you’re going to start telling us that murder or rape is a “default condition”.[/quote]
Rape, murder and xenophobia do all have evolutionary advantages so yes, they are hardwired in our brains.
Hint: There would be no reason for the instinctive fear of unknown men if they would not rape and kill so much.
[quote]orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Do you believe that “racism” is also a “default condition of most people in the world?” I do.
I call BS.
Babies are not racists. The condition develops if people of another race do you harm in one way or another. Adhering to a racist ideology is another possibility. If your mother tells you that your people are chosen by God or some other crap, then chances are that you will grow up to be a racist.
Next thing we know, you’re going to start telling us that murder or rape is a “default condition”.
Rape, murder and xenophobia do all have evolutionary advantages so yes, they are hardwired in our brains.
Hint: There would be no reason for the instinctive fear of unknown men if they would not rape and kill so much.
[/quote]
You beat me to it.
One can learn a lot about the default conditions of humanity by studying chimpanzees, who also rape, murder, kidnap, wage war* on neighboring troops, and engage in genocide.
- and no, it’s not “gorilla warfare.” Smartass.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Do you believe that “racism” is also a “default condition of most people in the world?” I do.
I call BS.
Babies are not racists. The condition develops if people of another race do you harm in one way or another. Adhering to a racist ideology is another possibility. If your mother tells you that your people are chosen by God or some other crap, then chances are that you will grow up to be a racist.
Next thing we know, you’re going to start telling us that murder or rape is a “default condition”.
Rape, murder and xenophobia do all have evolutionary advantages so yes, they are hardwired in our brains.
Hint: There would be no reason for the instinctive fear of unknown men if they would not rape and kill so much.
You beat me to it.
One can learn a lot about the default conditions of humanity by studying chimpanzees, who also rape, murder, kidnap, wage war* on neighboring troops, and engage in genocide.
- and no, it’s not “gorilla warfare.” Smartass.
[/quote]
Let us be shockingly un-pc and also state that women are more likely to get pregnant when raped than during normal intercourse.
Exactly because women take precautions to not being raped a successful rapists genome is a valuable genome to have to father your children.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/demonicmales.htm
This is a bit of a long read, and the book is decidedly hostile to us Testosterone-poisoned troglodytes (what would you expect of a book called Demonic Males), but if you can overlook all that, here is a fascinating account of the First Chimp War (at least, the first one fully documented by humans), from border incursion to Final Solution.
Yes, this all really happened.
That is why I dislike religous bigots.
With ditching evolution you tend to close your eyes to man’s real nature, therby forfeiting the chance to come to terms with yourself.
Without being able to look into the mirror and realize what we are (brutal, unkempt, selfidh monkeys), we’ll never have a chance to aspire to a higher level, personally and collectively.
[quote]orion wrote:
Rape, murder and xenophobia do all have evolutionary advantages so yes, they are hardwired in our brains.
Hint: There would be no reason for the instinctive fear of unknown men if they would not rape and kill so much. [/quote]
I disagree. A toddler couldn’t care less if he’s playing with a member of the same race or not. You seem to confuse our love for what is familiar with something hardwired.
Hint: The “familiar” is aquirred, NOT instinctive.