Socialized Healthcare... Yeah

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
42

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you confusing the state of science and economic development on purpose with the strenght of a civil society? WHat has on to do with the other, even the poorest of the poor were better of than anywhere else in the world back then and this is really the only yardstick that matters.

Bottom line, they had less AND gave relatively more.

Thank God capitalism got rid of the things you mentioned, now it should be even easier to care for the poor.

[/quote]

…bullshit. Victorian London - Houses and Housing - Housing of the Poor - Slums read this, altough it’s a wall of text, but Victorian London was not to be envied, at all…
[/quote]

And it was better… where?

[/quote]

…you tell me…
[/quote]

No, you tell me, because if you cantm they actually did the best with the resources they had.

Which is my whole point.

Just claiming that life was worse 100 years ago does nothing towards making your point.

[/quote]

…nice try slick, but it was you who’d like to see that kind of society again. We have it so much better now, than they had it back then. You’re a fool for thinking otherwise…
[/quote]

Hell, we have it bether than ancient Sparta too, but what does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

43

44

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
And there’s nothing not to love about privatized health care.

When my wife had a softball sized tumor attached to her adrenal gland it only took about 15 ER, primary doctor, and specialty doctor visits for them to figure that out. That was after they misdiagnosed her about 6 times, and were a heartbeat away from giving her a medication that would have killed her.

![/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with privatized vs. socialized?[/quote]

Everyone acts as if privatized medicine is the greatest thing in the world, and that socialized medicine is the worst thing possible and it has all the flaws that privatized care doesn’t. Long lines, second-rate care, etc

45

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
And there’s nothing not to love about privatized health care.

When my wife had a softball sized tumor attached to her adrenal gland it only took about 15 ER, primary doctor, and specialty doctor visits for them to figure that out. That was after they misdiagnosed her about 6 times, and were a heartbeat away from giving her a medication that would have killed her.

![/quote]

What exactly does that have to do with privatized vs. socialized?[/quote]

Everyone acts as if privatized medicine is the greatest thing in the world, and that socialized medicine is the worst thing possible and it has all the flaws that privatized care doesn’t. Long lines, second-rate care, etc[/quote]

No, it has just more of them in the short run, and makes innovation next to impossible in the long run.

It is a fact of life that not everyone can get the best medical service, just like not everyone can drive a Ferrari.

That however does not mean that we all have to drive a Trabant, the pinnacle of East German automotive engineering.

46

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…orion would rather see a neo-Victorian era where, if you’re too poor to pay for healthcare, you depend on charity or simply die from easily cured diseases…[/quote]

That would be awesome yes.

Trade guilds had doctors that were constantly on call, you could not throw a stone without hitting a charity and charity was the second biggest item of the household budget right after food.

Plus, 1/40 of the crime right now, no drug laws and booming economy that benefitted all.

Can I haz neo-victorian please?[/quote]

…and where would you live orion? Would you live in filth like the victorian poor did? The only clothes you owned were the ones on your back, and you had to share your underground dwelling with rats, lice and countless other unfortunate people like you…

…you wouldn’t grow very old ofcourse. Cholera, dysentery, rickets, influenza; they’d get you before old age would. Would you beg for a hand-out because you hadn’t eaten in days? Or would you resort to crime to feed yourself?

…but maybe i’m just thinking Victorian England and things were much different in the area that was Austria at the time. All i know, during the 1800s life for the poor man was as bad in urban Netherlands as it was in London or Manchester…

…which is it orion?
[/quote]

Are you confusing the state of science and economic development on purpose with the strenght of a civil society? WHat has on to do with the other, even the poorest of the poor were better of than anywhere else in the world back then and this is really the only yardstick that matters.

Bottom line, they had less AND gave relatively more.

Thank God capitalism got rid of the things you mentioned, now it should be even easier to care for the poor.
[/quote]

This statement also exposes how socialism removes altruism. We don’t have a choice to give to do good for the sake of doing. Money is taken before it is even gotten to be given.

47

[quote]orion wrote:

No, it has just more of them in the short run, and makes innovation next to impossible in the long run.

It is a fact of life that not everyone can get the best medical service, just like not everyone can drive a Ferrari.

That however does not mean that we all have to drive a Trabant, the pinnacle of East German automotive engineering.

[/quote]

It is human nature to bring everyone down. If everyone is eating rice and barely getting by it is not a problem until they see someone eating steak.

48

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, it has just more of them in the short run, and makes innovation next to impossible in the long run.

It is a fact of life that not everyone can get the best medical service, just like not everyone can drive a Ferrari.

That however does not mean that we all have to drive a Trabant, the pinnacle of East German automotive engineering.

[/quote]

It is human nature to bring everyone down. If everyone is eating rice and barely getting by it is not a problem until they see someone eating steak.
[/quote]

How is it a problem if those hungry people take on productive work to bring about more steaks. In fact, that is what capitalism allows for – mass production for the masses.

Government, on the other hand, steals all the steaks (via taxation and regulation) and leaves the masses poorer. None in government will go without steak so long as they can make slaves of us. After they take what we produce we might get thrown the leftovers if we’re lucky.

49

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

No, it has just more of them in the short run, and makes innovation next to impossible in the long run.

It is a fact of life that not everyone can get the best medical service, just like not everyone can drive a Ferrari.

That however does not mean that we all have to drive a Trabant, the pinnacle of East German automotive engineering.

[/quote]

It is human nature to bring everyone down. If everyone is eating rice and barely getting by it is not a problem until they see someone eating steak.
[/quote]

How is it a problem if those hungry people take on productive work to bring about more steaks. In fact, that is what capitalism allows for – mass production for the masses.

Government, on the other hand, steals all the steaks (via taxation and regulation) and leaves the masses poorer. None in government will go without steak so long as they can make slaves of us. After they take what we produce we might get thrown the leftovers if we’re lucky.[/quote]

Why would they do that? Steaks are bad for you, cause global warming and a bunch of other nonsense. It is easier just to ban them.

50

Why should I have to pay for someone elses life? I don’t expect others to pay for mine.

Government run healthcare intrudes on individual right not only at the level of the taxpayer, but also the service provider.

And if hospitals were not forced to treat those who could not pay, cost for service would go way down. but they have to inflate cost. so those who are productive and pay their bills get raped twice.

I have no problem being charitable, just quit stealing my money because you think you know better what to do with it.

51

and healthcare is not a right, it is a service provided by another entity.