[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Well, guys. I appreciate all the insults and all,[/quote]
You’re welcome. You earned them.
Thanks for responding to kindness with smugness, Reddog!
Oh, and I mentioned Italy b/c they invented facism. Doh!
See you at the rally!
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Thanks for responding to kindness with smugness, Reddog!
Oh, and I mentioned Italy b/c they invented facism. Doh!
See you at the rally![/quote]
Nobody (except you) mentioned Italy or fascism. You accused me of being a “brown shirt” with no idea what one is. I was simply trying to assuage you ignorance.
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
The market only demands that I work until 2 or so (pretty much my discression) for this I sacrifice several hundred thousand dollars in compensation per year.[/quote]
Yeah, I’m sure that there are dozens of private enterprises that would pay you that kind of money to spread your crap on a message board. Let’s be honest if you are a professor you are really, really, lucky to be working inside of the ivory tower where reality only rarely touches you.
Oh and I know you’re a self-proclaimed genius, professor, but you’ve misspelled “discretion”. Um…not even close man.
[quote]Hope everyone has a good holiday weekend. Remember those POOR people who always fight all of our wars for us.
At least since Korea, they all pretty much died for nothing.
[/quote]
And that’s the statement which proves you to be a total asshole.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Thanks for responding to kindness with smugness, Reddog!
Oh, and I mentioned Italy b/c they invented facism. Doh!
See you at the rally![/quote]
Nobody (except you) mentioned Italy or fascism. You accused me of being a “brown shirt” with no idea what one is. I was simply trying to assuage you ignorance.[/quote]
He is the intellectual equivalent of the guy who posts that he can bench 400 pounds and deadlift the world. When in reality he’s banging out the post with 13" arms. Keyboard warriors come in all shapes and sizes. My bet is that he’s no more a professor than I am Karl Marx.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Thanks for responding to kindness with smugness, Reddog!
Oh, and I mentioned Italy b/c they invented facism. Doh!
See you at the rally![/quote]
Nobody (except you) mentioned Italy or fascism. You accused me of being a “brown shirt” with no idea what one is. I was simply trying to assuage you ignorance.[/quote]
He is the intellectual equivalent of the guy who posts that he can bench 400 pounds and deadlift the world. When in reality he’s banging out the post with 13" arms. Keyboard warriors come in all shapes and sizes. My bet is that he’s no more a professor than I am Karl Marx. [/quote]
I really should be outta here, but you guys are such assholes, that I cant take it.
I don’t care if you believe what I do for a living. Yeah, I just invented it. Whatever. Let’s just say that I am a cop from now on. I’m sure you guys can respect that, right?
I am a shitty speller, though.
Let’s all meet here for a beer.
http://chicagopressrelease.com/news/national-tea-party-plans-may-29-rally-in-arizona
Wait, I gotta ask one question. This should be good—
Reddog, Zeb,
What do YOU guys do for a living???
Playboy? Trader? Assistant manager?
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
I really should be outta here,[/quote]
You’ve been threatening that now for 2 or 3 total posts.
Wait, I called you that and now you are calling me the same name? Not so clever “professor”.
Yes you do or you wouldn’t have responded as you have just now. And you would not have created this lofty position to begin with. You want to impress us and then try to blow us away with your superior intellect. So far you have strike two!
See that? You used the word “respect”. You said you were a professor because you wanted respect. But respect is not gained around here with titles, you actually have to earn it, just like in the real world.
Yes, most people who get a PHD are shitty spellers. No, wait, they’re not.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Thanks for responding to kindness with smugness, Reddog!
Oh, and I mentioned Italy b/c they invented facism. Doh!
See you at the rally![/quote]
Nobody (except you) mentioned Italy or fascism. You accused me of being a “brown shirt” with no idea what one is. I was simply trying to assuage you ignorance.[/quote]
He is the intellectual equivalent of the guy who posts that he can bench 400 pounds and deadlift the world. When in reality he’s banging out the post with 13" arms. Keyboard warriors come in all shapes and sizes. My bet is that he’s no more a professor than I am Karl Marx. [/quote]
I hope you’re right. If someone of this intellect is a university professor, we’re screwed…
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Thanks for responding to kindness with smugness, Reddog!
Oh, and I mentioned Italy b/c they invented facism. Doh!
See you at the rally![/quote]
Nobody (except you) mentioned Italy or fascism. You accused me of being a “brown shirt” with no idea what one is. I was simply trying to assuage you ignorance.[/quote]
He is the intellectual equivalent of the guy who posts that he can bench 400 pounds and deadlift the world. When in reality he’s banging out the post with 13" arms. Keyboard warriors come in all shapes and sizes. My bet is that he’s no more a professor than I am Karl Marx. [/quote]
I really should be outta here, but you guys are such assholes, that I cant take it.
I don’t care if you believe what I do for a living. Yeah, I just invented it. Whatever. Let’s just say that I am a cop from now on. I’m sure you guys can respect that, right?
I am a shitty speller, though.
Let’s all meet here for a beer.
http://chicagopressrelease.com/news/national-tea-party-plans-may-29-rally-in-arizona[/quote]
Hey genius, thats May 29, 2010.
You didn’t even read the article you posted!! You’re ignorance shines again…
[quote]garcia1970 wrote:
Wait, I gotta ask one question. This should be good—
Reddog, Zeb,
What do YOU guys do for a living???
Playboy? Trader? Assistant manager?[/quote]
When I go around bragging that I’m smarter than everyone else because of what I do for a living, then you can ask, otherwise it’s none of your fucking business.
This should explain a lot. Judging by the views I don’t doubt he’s an economics professor.
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
There are very few things from which we are all the benefactors, for those very few things, taxation is justified. Beyond that, I’d have to draw you a picture.
[/quote]
I said nothing of magnitudes, or the extent to which taxation is justified, or what specific elements of public action are under discussion. I simply stated that there are circumstances under which taxation itself is philosophically justified. You have a greed with me…as begrudgingly as you possibly could have, yes…but you seem to have agreed with me. That’s it.[/quote]
For the record, your original argument was:
[/quote]
I’m quite obviously referring to the simple basic justification for the act of taxation which I provided at Orion’s request two pages or so back. Which is what you’ve been criticizing. Take issue with that, or leave it.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
@smh23
Dude, you haven’t even made any PHILOSOPHICAL JUSTIFICATION for taxation.
You haven’t even justified the existence of the state which claims the authority to do the taxing.
Let’s see your awesome powers of reasoning at work.
So far all we have seen is one assumption made after an other and those are not arguments.
Shit, even Orion tried to help you with your argument.
Take his charity and give us a show, old boy.[/quote]
Like I said, take issue with the specifics of what I originally wrote. I’m not interested in arguing for argument’s sake. if you have a substantive criticism I am eager to hear it. I haven’t seen one yet.[/quote]
Oh, oh I would like to have a subsatntive criticism, but unfortunately you failed to make your point… yet again.
Taxes are easily justifiable…
And…
Go![/quote]
I wrote it a while back. It was simple and I can find little wrong with it. If you have a substantive piece of criticism that can be leveled against it, then please attack away. I will respond to your criticism and a debate will ensue.
Otherwise, I’m done with this thread. You asked, I answered, you ignored, you asked again. Go back a page, read what I wrote, and tear it apart with your “thesis” powers.[/quote]
You did nothing of this sort.
Lol at substantial criticism, of what exactly, fluff?
Where was the argument?
You found one, one poster who agreed with you and then concluded that if one kind of taxation is ok, according to him, well then it is all a matter of degrees anyway.
This is blatant nonsense.
So for starters, if we use a classic deontolical ethic, extortion, servitude and theft are considered to be wrong, why does that change when governments do it just because they call it something else?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
@smh23
Dude, you haven’t even made any PHILOSOPHICAL JUSTIFICATION for taxation.
You haven’t even justified the existence of the state which claims the authority to do the taxing.
Let’s see your awesome powers of reasoning at work.
So far all we have seen is one assumption made after an other and those are not arguments.
Shit, even Orion tried to help you with your argument.
Take his charity and give us a show, old boy.[/quote]
Like I said, take issue with the specifics of what I originally wrote. I’m not interested in arguing for argument’s sake. if you have a substantive criticism I am eager to hear it. I haven’t seen one yet.[/quote]
Oh, oh I would like to have a subsatntive criticism, but unfortunately you failed to make your point… yet again.
Taxes are easily justifiable…
And…
Go![/quote]
I wrote it a while back. It was simple and I can find little wrong with it. If you have a substantive piece of criticism that can be leveled against it, then please attack away. I will respond to your criticism and a debate will ensue.
Otherwise, I’m done with this thread. You asked, I answered, you ignored, you asked again. Go back a page, read what I wrote, and tear it apart with your “thesis” powers.[/quote]
You did nothing of this sort.
Lol at substantial criticism, of what exactly, fluff?
Where was the argument?
You found one, one poster who agreed with you and then concluded that if one kind of taxation is ok, according to him, well then it is all a matter of degrees anyway.
This is blatant nonsense.
So for starters, if we use a classic deontolical ethic, extortion, servitude and theft are considered to be wrong, why does that change when governments do it just because they call it something else?
[/quote]
Seriously man. Quote my post and pick it apart or give up. If it is actually “fluff,” and you are indeed an expert as you have insinuated, then it should take you mere minutes. Go at it.
If you can’t, then just stop fucking whining.
Oh boy! A thesis! Now I’m terrified!
For the benefit of all, so cietal cooperation must be regulated, its disparate components protected from each other, and the machinery of its quotidian comings and goings kept in a state of constant vitality. These things cost money. Since we are the benefactors, and the recipients of the services, we pay the money.
Make it as fucked and convoluted as you’d like. That right there is simple and true.
This drivel^^^^
You call that an argument?
“For the benefit of all, societal cooperation must be regulated”
- does not imply the necessity of a state and contains a yet to be proven assumption
" its disparate components protected from each other"
- still does not imply the necessity of a state
“and the machinery of its quotidian comings and goings kept in a state of constant vitality”
- fluff
" These things cost money"
- True, but that neither makes a case that the state should do it, how much of it is justifiable, that it can be extorted out of people and so further and so on.
" Since we are the benefactors, and the recipients of the services, we pay the money."
- Excellent argument, if we talked about market services. What you are basically claiming here is that theft, extortion or servitude is ok if it is for the victims own good. The fact that you try to do something “good” for your victims afterwards, “good” by your definition, that they not necessarily agree with, with the money they made, no less, minus the cost of government waste, corruption and bureaucracy of course, is on par with every drunks ramblings who brings his wife flowers after he has beaten her up and went through her wallet to buy booze.
If this is all you have, you have nothing.
[quote]orion wrote:
with the money they made, no less
[/quote]
This is the real practical problem right here. You made the money, true, and yet you wouldn’t have made a cent of it without the government toward whom you feel such animosity.
Who printed the money? Who backed it? How did you make the money…were roads involved at any step of the process, i.e. did the transportation of any good or human being contribute to the act of you making a single dollar of the money in question? If yes: who keeps those roads safe from medieval-style highway robbers (who, incidentally, exist in droves in Somalia, where no de jure state exists)? Who keeps them in relative good condition? How about railways? Were airplanes involved at any step of the process? Who regulated the airlines?
Where did you, on a corporeal level, get the energy which you used to make the money? My guess would be from food. Why did you not spend more time worrying about the safety of the food you were eating (a preoccupation which would have been likely to eat up, on the eve of each and every meal, a modicum of your time and mental acuity at the very least)? Was it because of some regulatory body in whose absence standards of cleanliness in agriculture and food production would have been incalculably lower, as evidenced by both deductive logic and historical example? Did you drink water to sustain your own life during the making of the money in question? Was there a regulatory body involved in the assurance of the cleanliness and reliable availability of the water?
Did you interact with other people while earning the money in question? If so, how did you communicate with them? My guess would be that it was in some sort of language. Who taught you this language? Was it in a school? Was there an authoritative body responsible for the fact that, regardless or your parents’ wishes or prejudices, you had been obliged to attend said school and learn to speak, read, and write said language? Who funded the school? Who ensured that it operate in a relatively respectable manner?
Were you murdered or stolen from during the course of the making of this money in question? Why not? Was there some protective authority in place designed to halt or minimize criminality? Who paid for this?
I am assuming that you made this money at a certain geographic location on Earth. Was this location, during the course of your making the money, at any time overrun by conquering soldiers? Were you enslaved by a foreign power, or killed by invading warriors? Why not? Was there sort of large protective “army” in place to ensure against that?
The institutions and agencies responsible for the above benefits, we call the state. You used it, you pay for it.
An addendum: you seem to espouse elements (or the entirety) of the childish nonsense that is modern-day anarchism. If I’m right: the multiple billions of people on this planet cannot coexist haphazardly and ungoverned. The state that we put in place as a consequence of this inarguable fact costs money. And so we pay taxes.
Get your head out of your ass.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
with the money they made, no less
[/quote]
This is the real practical problem right here. You made the money, true, and yet you wouldn’t have made a cent of it without the government toward whom you feel such animosity.
Who printed the money? Who backed it? How did you make the money…were roads involved at any step of the process, i.e. did the transportation of any good or human being contribute to the act of you making a single dollar of the money in question? If yes: who keeps those roads safe from medieval-style highway robbers (who, incidentally, exist in droves in Somalia, where no de jure state exists)? Who keeps them in relative good condition? How about railways? Were airplanes involved at any step of the process? Who regulated the airlines?
Where did you, on a corporeal level, get the energy which you used to make the money? My guess would be from food. Why did you not spend more time worrying about the safety of the food you were eating (a preoccupation which would have been likely to eat up, on the eve of each and every meal, a modicum of your time and mental acuity at the very least)? Was it because of some regulatory body in whose absence standards of cleanliness in agriculture and food production would have been incalculably lower, as evidenced by both deductive logic and historical example? Did you drink water to sustain your own life during the making of the money in question? Was there a regulatory body involved in the assurance of the cleanliness and reliable availability of the water?
Did you interact with other people while earning the money in question? If so, how did you communicate with them? My guess would be that it was in some sort of language. Who taught you this language? Was it in a school? Was there an authoritative body responsible for the fact that, regardless or your parents’ wishes or prejudices, you had been obliged to attend said school and learn to speak, read, and write said language? Who funded the school? Who ensured that it operate in a relatively respectable manner?
Were you murdered or stolen from during the course of the making of this money in question? Why not? Was there some protective authority in place designed to halt or minimize criminality? Who paid for this?
I am assuming that you made this money at a certain geographic location on Earth. Was this location, during the course of your making the money, at any time overrun by conquering soldiers? Were you enslaved by a foreign power, or killed by invading warriors? Why not? Was there sort of large protective “army” in place to ensure against that?
The institutions and agencies responsible for the above benefits, we call the state. You used it, you pay for it.[/quote]
This is fantastic.
^yep he is a smart guy