Socialism

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
knewsom wrote:
ahem

one word: SWEDEN.

Sweden kind of works but it is kind of a mess too and is getting worse by most accounts.

“kind of a mess”!? Dude, have you BEEN to Sweden? In what respect is Sweden “kind of a mess”?

According to the CIA world Factbook, “Sweden’s long-successful economic formula of a capitalist system interlarded with substantial welfare elements was challenged in the 1990s by high unemployment and in 2000-02 by the global economic downturn, but fiscal discipline over the past several years has allowed the country to weather economic vagaries.”

Sweden has only 6% unemployment, one of the HIGHEST qualities of living in the WORLD, EXCELLENT foreign relations, GREAT functional healthcare, a PRISTINE environment, LOW population density, and one of the cleanest human rights records there is.

Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.[/quote]

The last book I read on Sweden was likely written in the 90’s.

It discussed the high unemployment rate and the extremely long lines and poor levels of all sorts of social services.

It is nice to know that Swedens unemployment levels are now only slightly higher than those in the US.

I always liked the Swedish bikini team.

[knewsom]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
knewsom wrote:
ahem

one word: SWEDEN.

Sweden kind of works but it is kind of a mess too and is getting worse by most accounts.

“kind of a mess”!? Dude, have you BEEN to Sweden? In what respect is Sweden “kind of a mess”?

According to the CIA world Factbook, “Sweden’s long-successful economic formula of a capitalist system interlarded with substantial welfare elements was challenged in the 1990s by high unemployment and in 2000-02 by the global economic downturn, but fiscal discipline over the past several years has allowed the country to weather economic vagaries.”

Sweden has only 6% unemployment, one of the HIGHEST qualities of living in the WORLD, EXCELLENT foreign relations, GREAT functional healthcare, a PRISTINE environment, LOW population density, and one of the cleanest human rights records there is.

Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

And what is their tax rate? From what I’ve read, Sweden is no paradise. It’s a country of welfare-sucks. They, of course, don’t count those as unemployed. Also, didn’t they go broke a few years back, and had 400% interest rates? Some paradise.

Capitalism is the only -ism that ever did anybody any damn good!

God bless the USA, the most noble, generous, and moral country on this planet! Without us, this world would have torn itself apart years ago.
[/quote]

ok, first off, where have you been reading? cite me a source. second, what part of “Sweden’s long-successful economic formula of a capitalist system interlarded with substantial welfare elements…” didn’t you get?

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind paying higher taxes if it meant having 0% of the population living below the poverty line as opposed to the 12% in the US. What’s “moral” about forcing people to live in poverty!? what’s moral about the poorest 3% of the nation making only 1% of the GDP?

And in case you hadn’t noticed, the world didn’t tear itself apart BEFORE the USA was here.

[knewsom]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The last book I read on Sweden was likely written in the 90’s.

It discussed the high unemployment rate and the extremely long lines and poor levels of all sorts of social services.
[/quote]

Yeah, times were “tough” by Swedish standards during the ninetey’s… but I was there in 95, and it’s not like there were homeless people, or lines of Russian proportians at the supermarkets. Things seeemed pretty good to me, actually.

[quote]
It is nice to know that Swedens unemployment levels are now only slightly higher than those in the US. [/quote]

Indeed - also, have you looked at the percentages of where their purchasing power is? the middle class in Sweden is HUGE. Seriously, check out the CIA world factbook on them, great source of info.

[quote]
I always liked the Swedish bikini team.[/quote]

heh, you and me both.

[Alf]

Last time I checked non of the aforementioned countries were socialist. Don’t mistake socialism for social democracy. Social democracy is merely a more socially orientated capitalism and cannot be equated with socialism.

[knewsom]

heh, well, TECHNICALL, Sweden is a “Constitutional Monarchy”. The head of State is the King.

They’re a social democracy, yes. But socialism, by definition, is democratic, I believe.

[Headhunter]

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
knewsom wrote:
ahem

one word: SWEDEN.

Sweden kind of works but it is kind of a mess too and is getting worse by most accounts.

“kind of a mess”!? Dude, have you BEEN to Sweden? In what respect is Sweden “kind of a mess”?

According to the CIA world Factbook, “Sweden’s long-successful economic formula of a capitalist system interlarded with substantial welfare elements was challenged in the 1990s by high unemployment and in 2000-02 by the global economic downturn, but fiscal discipline over the past several years has allowed the country to weather economic vagaries.”

Sweden has only 6% unemployment, one of the HIGHEST qualities of living in the WORLD, EXCELLENT foreign relations, GREAT functional healthcare, a PRISTINE environment, LOW population density, and one of the cleanest human rights records there is.

Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

And what is their tax rate? From what I’ve read, Sweden is no paradise. It’s a country of welfare-sucks. They, of course, don’t count those as unemployed. Also, didn’t they go broke a few years back, and had 400% interest rates? Some paradise.

Capitalism is the only -ism that ever did anybody any damn good!

God bless the USA, the most noble, generous, and moral country on this planet! Without us, this world would have torn itself apart years ago.

ok, first off, where have you been reading? cite me a source. second, what part of “Sweden’s long-successful economic formula of a capitalist system interlarded with substantial welfare elements…” didn’t you get?

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind paying higher taxes if it meant having 0% of the population living below the poverty line as opposed to the 12% in the US. What’s “moral” about forcing people to live in poverty!? what’s moral about the poorest 3% of the nation making only 1% of the GDP?

And in case you hadn’t noticed, the world didn’t tear itself apart BEFORE the USA was here.[/quote]

From www.sweden.se…

…local tax 26 - 35%. …national tax 20 or 25%, on earned income. Add those up.

Then there’s the value-added tax. They even have a tax on CO emmissions! Let’s see: then there’s the 30% tax on capital. You wind up paying so much in taxes, you work most of your life supporting others!

Sweden is a pretty, well-mannered robber state. It robs the saps who work and distributes the lootings. Is it any wonder its a paradise – for loafers and bums? I’m surprised that the producers in Sweden aren’t tired of being milch-cows for all the ‘gentlemen of leisure’.

May I also add they get a great benefit from us? If the USA didn’t keep order in this shithole world, Sweden wouldn’t last more than a week!

[knewsom]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
From www.sweden.se…

…local tax 26 - 35%. …national tax 20 or 25%, on earned income. Add those up.

Then there’s the value-added tax. They even have a tax on CO emmissions! Let’s see: then there’s the 30% tax on capital. You wind up paying so much in taxes, you work most of your life supporting others!

Sweden is a pretty, well-mannered robber state. It robs the saps who work and distributes the lootings. Is it any wonder its a paradise – for loafers and bums? I’m surprised that the producers in Sweden aren’t tired of being milch-cows for all the ‘gentlemen of leisure’.

May I also add they get a great benefit from us? If the USA didn’t keep order in this shithole world, Sweden wouldn’t last more than a week!
[/quote]

I know Sweden has high taxes - I have family there. People aren’t tired of being “milch-cows” as you call it, becasue fact of the matter is their taxes go to fund MANY greater goods, like foreign relief efforts, FREE COLLEGE for EVERYONE, EFFECTIVE social work programs that help find a productive place in society for the less fortunate, and yes, welfare to help those either in-bewteen jobs, or unable to maintain one.

There are NO HOMELESS PEOPLE in Sweden. The cities and streets are CLEAN. Quality of life there is EXCELLENT. Once your overall quality of life is at such an excellent level, money is far less important. Besides, property is inexpensive in most of Sweden, and yes, cars are VERY expensive, but there’s EXCELLENT public transportation. People live frugally and sustainably. …maybe you should pay attention instead of whining about having to pay your taxes. Shit, I pay like 25%30% of my income, and all I got out of it was national debt and a war I didn’t want. I’d rather pay TWICE that in taxes and have a job that paid 30% more than I make now, and see it go to something useful, like keeping people out of poverty.

[anon31651765]

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
From www.sweden.se…

…local tax 26 - 35%. …national tax 20 or 25%, on earned income. Add those up.

Then there’s the value-added tax. They even have a tax on CO emmissions! Let’s see: then there’s the 30% tax on capital. You wind up paying so much in taxes, you work most of your life supporting others!

Sweden is a pretty, well-mannered robber state. It robs the saps who work and distributes the lootings. Is it any wonder its a paradise – for loafers and bums? I’m surprised that the producers in Sweden aren’t tired of being milch-cows for all the ‘gentlemen of leisure’.

May I also add they get a great benefit from us? If the USA didn’t keep order in this shithole world, Sweden wouldn’t last more than a week!

I know Sweden has high taxes - I have family there. People aren’t tired of being “milch-cows” as you call it, becasue fact of the matter is their taxes go to fund MANY greater goods, like foreign relief efforts, FREE COLLEGE for EVERYONE, EFFECTIVE social work programs that help find a productive place in society for the less fortunate, and yes, welfare to help those either in-bewteen jobs, or unable to maintain one.

There are NO HOMELESS PEOPLE in Sweden. The cities and streets are CLEAN. Quality of life there is EXCELLENT. Once your overall quality of life is at such an excellent level, money is far less important. Besides, property is inexpensive in most of Sweden, and yes, cars are VERY expensive, but there’s EXCELLENT public transportation. People live frugally and sustainably. …maybe you should pay attention instead of whining about having to pay your taxes. Shit, I pay like 25%30% of my income, and all I got out of it was national debt and a war I didn’t want. I’d rather pay TWICE that in taxes and have a job that paid 30% more than I make now, and see it go to something useful, like keeping people out of poverty.[/quote]

Nice post. I agree with it.

[lothario1132]

[quote]knewsom wrote:
I know Sweden has high taxes - I have family there. People aren’t tired of being “milch-cows” as you call it, becasue fact of the matter is their taxes go to fund MANY greater goods, like foreign relief efforts, FREE COLLEGE for EVERYONE, EFFECTIVE social work programs that help find a productive place in society for the less fortunate, and yes, welfare to help those either in-bewteen jobs, or unable to maintain one.

There are NO HOMELESS PEOPLE in Sweden. The cities and streets are CLEAN. Quality of life there is EXCELLENT. Once your overall quality of life is at such an excellent level, money is far less important. Besides, property is inexpensive in most of Sweden, and yes, cars are VERY expensive, but there’s EXCELLENT public transportation. People live frugally and sustainably. …maybe you should pay attention instead of whining about having to pay your taxes. Shit, I pay like 25%30% of my income, and all I got out of it was national debt and a war I didn’t want. I’d rather pay TWICE that in taxes and have a job that paid 30% more than I make now, and see it go to something useful, like keeping people out of poverty.[/quote]

This IS a very excellent post. Sweden is set up very well as a trial model for the rest of the world once we don’t have any more large-scale wars. When you aren’t funding massive buildups of military power (a necessary evil for powerful nations in this day and age) then you can turn your attention to more domestic stuff like getting everybody a place to live and food to eat. The way I see it, Sweden just kinda skipped to the end and missed all the transitional economic models that the rest of us are living with right now.

So they are a constitutional monarchy, hmm? I don’t know if that will go down very well. We’ll have to get some more democracy in there. And of course, I wonder if that much tax is necessary. Still, they are on the right track at least.

To everybody who might hate on my post:
Socialism is not a dirty word. It is only common sense for powerful nations to care for their citizenry with temporary welfare programs and medical care, etc. You have to admit that capitalism falls flat on its face in the areas of caring for our disabled or elderly (folks who never could or can’t produce anymore). The cries of “sucking the gubbamint titty” disappear when you foster the idea of folks understanding the value of work, and you back it up with perks like free education (including college) for everybody.

Yes, there are always gonna be slackers. Do we leave them on the street to become desperate and criminal? Bad idea. We have two choices when it comes to dealing with this segment of the population:

1. We can get these bastards to live in state-sponsored semi-poverty and bombard them with TV commercials showing them why it’s a good idea to get a friggin’ jerb and be a real person… maybe we could succeed with some of them.

2. We can wait until these folks have succumbed to desperation, drowning in the hopelessness of it all (I never had a chance to be somebody in this life because I can’t afford to go to college, blah blah blah, I HAD to sell drugs, etc.) and then we can pay our taxes to support these bastards in JAIL.

Either way, the people like us who work will be supporting these folks. So it’s your choice to make: do we want them living on the streets, committing crimes, and sleeping in gutters? Or would it be smarter to at least have tried to give them a fighting chance to do something useful with themselves?

[bigflamer]

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.[/quote]

So what’s holding you back?

Go live in this Swedish paradise and leave this hell known as the U.S. with all it’s capitolist woes far behind.

If I were you, I wouldn’t stay another minute.

Bye.

[Headhunter]

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

So what’s holding you back?

Go live in this Swedish paradise and leave this hell known as the U.S. with all it’s capitolist woes far behind.

If I were you, I wouldn’t stay another minute.

Bye.

[/quote]

Isn’t it interesting how socialists have all this sympathy for everyone EXCEPT the people who make it all possible? Do they realize that their paradise is built upon the backs of the men who produce?

I have all the sympathy in the world for poor children, elderly, and so forth – just not at the point of a gun. When 70% of my income is taken to support those who produce nothing, I want to know the reason why. Must BRUTE FORCE (in this case, taxes) be exercised to obtain worthwhile goals?
How about giving each individual the choice if they want to participate in this system? Sure, I know they vote for it. What if the loafers outnumber the producers? Think they’d vote for free money from the public coffers?

Until each person is free to choose IF THEY WANT TO BE A MICH-COW, its a robber-state. A nice, pretty one, but a robber-state nonetheless.

[bigflamer]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

So what’s holding you back?

Go live in this Swedish paradise and leave this hell known as the U.S. with all it’s capitolist woes far behind.

If I were you, I wouldn’t stay another minute.

Bye.

Isn’t it interesting how socialists have all this sympathy for everyone EXCEPT the people who make it all possible? Do they realize that their paradise is built upon the backs of the men who produce?

I have all the sympathy in the world for poor children, elderly, and so forth – just not at the point of a gun. When 70% of my income is taken to support those who produce nothing, I want to know the reason why. Must BRUTE FORCE (in this case, taxes) be exercised to obtain worthwhile goals?
How about giving each individual the choice if they want to participate in this system? Sure, I know they vote for it. What if the loafers outnumber the producers? Think they’d vote for free money from the public coffers?

Until each person is free to choose IF THEY WANT TO BE A MICH-COW, its a robber-state. A nice, pretty one, but a robber-state nonetheless.

[/quote]

What’s intersting is that most leftists will HOWL at the mere thought of politicians usurping their civil liberties from them and placing themselves in a position of too much power over the common man.

However they will gleefully place the yoke of strong government upon themselves in the form of socialism. Willingly they would choose to submit a great deal of their income and completely invest the future of both themselves and their children to the whims of a governing body.

Without even being aware of it, they cast themselves into a state of psuedoserfdom, a state where they must work for the wealthy landowners (government), and in return they are cared for by said lord of the land.

I agree with you completely on the idea that "socialism’ is a nicer word for “robber state”.

Governments that govern least govern best.

[ExNole]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

So what’s holding you back?

Go live in this Swedish paradise and leave this hell known as the U.S. with all it’s capitolist woes far behind.

If I were you, I wouldn’t stay another minute.

Bye.

Isn’t it interesting how socialists have all this sympathy for everyone EXCEPT the people who make it all possible? Do they realize that their paradise is built upon the backs of the men who produce?

I have all the sympathy in the world for poor children, elderly, and so forth – just not at the point of a gun. When 70% of my income is taken to support those who produce nothing, I want to know the reason why. Must BRUTE FORCE (in this case, taxes) be exercised to obtain worthwhile goals?
How about giving each individual the choice if they want to participate in this system? Sure, I know they vote for it. What if the loafers outnumber the producers? Think they’d vote for free money from the public coffers?

Until each person is free to choose IF THEY WANT TO BE A MICH-COW, its a robber-state. A nice, pretty one, but a robber-state nonetheless.

[/quote]

Are you really sure you want to place all of the possibility of producing in the power of the people who own the means of production? Without the workers, nothing gets made either.

The owners/producers you talk about are not just sitting in some state of nature getting rich until the state comes by and taxes them. They are rich and wealthy only within the state and enjoy lots of its benefits.

They use its money and trade on it’s guranteed worth by the treasury. They are protected by the police and judicial system, both in criminal matters and matters of contract and patent. They hire other people from the state to produce their goods. They use the roads, schools, electricity, water, and other pieces of infrastructure

Thats the trade off of being wealthy in a state: you have to ensure the (relative) welfare of the people who particpate in the state as workers. It’s not that complex. You can argue specifics, 70% taxation seems high I agree. But don’t sit there and pretend these poor producers/owners are perfectly fine without a state, or a capitalist system is an innocent lamb.

[Moriarty]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how socialists have all this sympathy for everyone EXCEPT the people who make it all possible? Do they realize that their paradise is built upon the backs of the men who produce?

I have all the sympathy in the world for poor children, elderly, and so forth – just not at the point of a gun. When 70% of my income is taken to support those who produce nothing, I want to know the reason why. Must BRUTE FORCE (in this case, taxes) be exercised to obtain worthwhile goals?
How about giving each individual the choice if they want to participate in this system? Sure, I know they vote for it. What if the loafers outnumber the producers? Think they’d vote for free money from the public coffers?

Until each person is free to choose IF THEY WANT TO BE A MICH-COW, its a robber-state. A nice, pretty one, but a robber-state nonetheless.
[/quote]

Isn’t it interesting how you have absolutely no logical argument here? I mean really, are you honestly arguing that Sweden is a failed state because everyone is being “robbed forcefully” by taxes? So you’re suggesting that somehow everyone there would be much happier with homelessness, with no free college, and with no free health care because they would have some extra cash in their paycheck to buy a better car with and no longer feel bad about supporting their society? Give me a break…they are all choosing to be a part of that system the same way we choose to be a part of this system; by choosing to live here.

Judging from your posts on other issues and your lack of ability to form an argument here, you sound like an uninformed child that’s grown up to believe your “team” is “the best” and spout nonsense at any suggestion otherwise. Sounds like it hurts your ego that there are other successful states in the world. Grow up.

Waits for your regularly scheduled non sequitur

[Headhunter]

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Sweden is the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

So what’s holding you back?

Go live in this Swedish paradise and leave this hell known as the U.S. with all it’s capitolist woes far behind.

If I were you, I wouldn’t stay another minute.

Bye.

Isn’t it interesting how socialists have all this sympathy for everyone EXCEPT the people who make it all possible? Do they realize that their paradise is built upon the backs of the men who produce?

I have all the sympathy in the world for poor children, elderly, and so forth – just not at the point of a gun. When 70% of my income is taken to support those who produce nothing, I want to know the reason why. Must BRUTE FORCE (in this case, taxes) be exercised to obtain worthwhile goals?
How about giving each individual the choice if they want to participate in this system? Sure, I know they vote for it. What if the loafers outnumber the producers? Think they’d vote for free money from the public coffers?

Until each person is free to choose IF THEY WANT TO BE A MICH-COW, its a robber-state. A nice, pretty one, but a robber-state nonetheless.

What’s intersting is that most leftists will HOWL at the mere thought of politicians usurping their civil liberties from them and placing themselves in a position of too much power over the common man.

However they will gleefully place the yoke of strong government upon themselves in the form of socialism. Willingly they would choose to submit a great deal of their income and completely invest the future of both themselves and their children to the whims of a governing body.

Without even being aware of it, they cast themselves into a state of psuedoserfdom, a state where they must work for the wealthy landowners (government), and in return they are cared for by said lord of the land.

I agree with you completely on the idea that "socialism’ is a nicer word for “robber state”.

Governments that govern least govern best.[/quote]

One of the best damn posts ever!

[Headhunter]

[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Isn’t it interesting how socialists have all this sympathy for everyone EXCEPT the people who make it all possible? Do they realize that their paradise is built upon the backs of the men who produce?

I have all the sympathy in the world for poor children, elderly, and so forth – just not at the point of a gun. When 70% of my income is taken to support those who produce nothing, I want to know the reason why. Must BRUTE FORCE (in this case, taxes) be exercised to obtain worthwhile goals?
How about giving each individual the choice if they want to participate in this system? Sure, I know they vote for it. What if the loafers outnumber the producers? Think they’d vote for free money from the public coffers?

Until each person is free to choose IF THEY WANT TO BE A MICH-COW, its a robber-state. A nice, pretty one, but a robber-state nonetheless.

Isn’t it interesting how you have absolutely no logical argument here? I mean really, are you honestly arguing that Sweden is a failed state because everyone is being “robbed forcefully” by taxes? So you’re suggesting that somehow everyone there would be much happier with homelessness, with no free college, and with no free health care because they would have some extra cash in their paycheck to buy a better car with and no longer feel bad about supporting their society? Give me a break…they are all choosing to be a part of that system the same way we choose to be a part of this system; by choosing to live here.

Judging from your posts on other issues and your lack of ability to form an argument here, you sound like an uninformed child that’s grown up to believe your “team” is “the best” and spout nonsense at any suggestion otherwise. Sounds like it hurts your ego that there are other successful states in the world. Grow up.

Waits for your regularly scheduled non sequitur
[/quote]

You use the word ‘free’ quite a lot. Free? Who provided this ‘free’ stuff? Since you don’t understand THAT concept of freedom, this implies that you wouldn’t understand the more basic kind – to be a man, to stand on your own two feet, without ‘Mother Sweden’ there to pick you up if you fall down.

Why are the needs of one person a claim on the earnings of someone else? You rant on about how Sweden has gotten rid of homelessness, poverty, lousy health care and so forth (which are desireable things to be rid of). They do so by taking roughly 70% of the earnings of one man, and giving it to another. This means that a productive person is doomed to servitude BECAUSE OF THEIR ABILITY. The vacuous, the loafers, the non-entity are the aristocracy, while the people who think are peons. That’s anyone’s (of integrity) idea of an ideal state? No thanks, bub!

And just because you don’t grasp an argument does not make same a non- sequitur.

[Zap_Branigan]

Doesn’t Sweden have one of the highest suicide rates?

I am not sure if it the weather or the socialism. They are both depressing.

[Zap_Branigan]

BTW this is another topic but it has been referenced here a number of times.

Homelessness is due to mental illness and/or drug addiction in almost all cases. It is not due to an economic system.

Carters administration let all the non violent mentally ill out of the institutions in the late 70’s. That is why they are on the street.

We can lock them up against their will but that doesn’t seem fair.

I suppose we could also give them free apartments and free drugs but that doesn’t make much sense either and they tend to walk away and/or destroy such things.

[knewsom]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Doesn’t Sweden have one of the highest suicide rates?

I am not sure if it the weather or the socialism. They are both depressing.[/quote]

True, they DO have high suicide and alcoholism rates, but historically, they always have. It’s the lack of sunlight. In fact, you see nearly identical figures in Alaska, Norway, Denmark, northern Sibera… etc.

…and I thought it was Reagan who cut all the funding to the mental hospitals, forcing them to close, resulting in the maw of crazies that now try and clean my windshield.

[knewsom]

…the other thing is that the “loafers” DONT outnumber the producers, and EVERYONE benefits from state paid tuition, good roads, healthcare, etc.

Just like everyone benefits from one or two months paid vacation every year.

…I might move to Sweden if the Dems don’t retake the power soon, but in the meantime, I think I’ll stick it out here and try to change this country for the better.

Besides, as it is, the top 5% earners in this country pay 65% of our tax revenues, and can pay up to 75% of their income in taxes. I’m not receiving state welfare in any form, I took out LOANS to go to college, which I’m now PAYING for, I PAY my taxes, over 20% of my check every two weeks, and I STILL end up owing the g’vt extra when I file. I ALREADY pay plenty of taxes, the rich pay even more, and IMO, we don’t have as much to show for it as Sweden does.