Baretta:
Your avatar is mesmerizing. I…can’t…look away. Who is it??
HOLY SHIT BEST AVATAR EVER
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
MARC MACYOUNG: Here’s the thing: if you are smart, the better at fighting you get the less fighting you’ll do. Because the better you get the less you want to do it. You realize that the people you are going to be up against are way good. There is an old saying that “when two tigers fight one dies and one’s injured.” So even if you win he’s going to get a piece out of you.[/quote]
Bingo.
[quote]baretta wrote:
I think that if you put the average trained MMA guy, or any martial artist for that matter against a guy fighting for his life and that guy will maul the “trained fighter”. At our basic level we are all animals and have in ourselves a great capacity for violence caused by the sense of self preservation. I don’t think in such scenarios you are actually aware of what you are doing, it would be instinct taking over.
I think in the back of people’s minds, no matter how touch your opponent looks, a stand off between two guys, you’re not thinking about getting killed, you are just thinking about not losing. If you add in the factor of fighting for your life, the things you would do would probably disgust the average person watching from the outside, because you would have no inhibitions or morals. I think that is where “fighting” and “self defense” differ and I am pretty sure the latter cannot be taught in a classroom setting.
[/quote]
I too have had the same idea but have been proven wrong before… the trained individual often will prevail even if it means as little as staying collected. The trained guy feels comfortable and can think whereas the crazed “fighting for my life” guy is much more likely to make a dumb mistake.
[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Rocky101 wrote:
What if the bodybuilder in your scenario threw a 30lb dumbbell at the “trained fighter” and it connected and smashed his arms when he defended his head-whose gonna win now. That is what the point of the author was-true reality. If you think JoeMMA is going win a fight against a New Zealand cannibal who missed breakfast you sadly don’t live in reality.
“Good, bad I’m the guy with the gun”-Army OF Darkness
Both scenarios are improbable.
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Most people do not carry dumbells around, unless they’re in the gym. When was the last time a brawl broke out in the gym?
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Even if I was in an Auckland pub, how many cannibals would be having a beer at the bar?
Get real.
[/quote]
Actually this is kind of funny because a few years ago I came to the gym when they were just done arresting two guys for fighting in the gym. And one of them did throw dumbells at the other.
I don’t disagree with what you said though.
[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Is a bar the only place fights break out?
Don’t tell me to get real, I have seen weirder shit happen. You can fight all you want, I’d rather survive.
[/quote]
A fight can break out anywhere, it’s just that wherever there’s alcohol, the chances of it happening are greatly increased. I played the bar circuit for years with my band, and have seen many fights. They were all pretty much as I described them in my previous post.
As far as weird shit? Well, I’m with Hunter S. Thompson on that one. It never gets weird enough for me.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Good post Xen. Though this thread is about “self defense”.
As far as the article goes…
MacYoung does say some good, practical things about the reality of actual combat in contrast to “sport” combat. But I take issue with a couple of his statements.
- his statement that physical conditioning isn’t important in a real combat/self defense situation is stupid. Yes, I understand that you want to get your shots in and get out as fast as possible, but in a reality where there are no limitations, limiting yourself by not performing your physical conditioning work could come back to haunt you.
He seems to be under the impression that he’ll always have a weapon (gun, knife, his car, etc…) at his disposal. What if he gets attacked by a 250 lb former college linebacker in an airport restroom? Well, he won’t have a gun or knife (since the security measures would have confiscated them) and he’ll be up against someone who is physically bigger, stronger, and possibly more aggressive than him. Really his only chance is to either be so fast that this guy can’t defend his attacks, or he’ll have to try to ride out the storm and wait until help arrives.
Not true. What he always tries to say is that most people do NOT have the will to do “whatever it takes” to win.
It’s easier to flap your dick in the wind online and claim that you would do all kinds of shit to a dude if he got in your face (Not you, I mean just in general).
What he’s said in most of his books, and that I truly believe, is that aside from those with extensive streetfighting and or combat experience, most people don’t have the heart or stomach or cool head to try to gouge a guys’ eyes out, or, as MacYoung said, bite a guy in the crotch.
All different types of martial arts have all different types of striking points. Sure, your linebacker might be a big angry dude, but for someone who has not only trained for years in martial arts, but also knows what garbage to toss from said martial art, your guys going to be in for a world of hurt if he doesn’t truly know what he’s doing. He’s a big ole’ linebacker, so he’s going to telegraph what is most likely an unbalanced, ungrounded punch, and then likely try to do what most guys will, especially bigger fellas, which is to use their strength to outmuscle someone. That’s dangerous against someone who doesn’t care about ripping your mouth open with a fishook (Seen that happen, it’s fucking disgusting).
That being said, there’s not many places where you can’t get a weapon in, or find something to use as a weapon. One fella I knew clocked someone in the head with a cue ball in a sock, another guy I knew pulled a tiki torch out of the groun and tried to spear someone. I once got hit with full beer bottles that I thought broke my fuckin cheek bone. Someone else I knew smashed a pint glass on someone’s face at a bar and opened him up pretty good. That same guy also had taken a kitchen knife from the bar and put it in his pocket, because he had planned on stabbing the guy.
Airport bathroom? Hell, you could probably stab a guy with a key, or at least stick’em into his eyes. And you still have the same deadly weapon all the time- MacYoung’s “shod foot”. You could choke them with a belt.
I know these things are unlikely, but when you’re fighting some pretty unlikely shit happens.
- while I don’t disagree that grappling is good for restraining, that’s not it’s original purpose. The locks were/are actually breaks. If you really know what you are doing you can really mess someone up using grappling (break bones, tear muscles and tendons, paralyze or even kill). Just because in MMA the object is to make someone submit using something like an arm bar and as a result you don’t actually break their arm (tear the biceps tendon for instance) doesn’t mean that one can’t do it in real combat.
A well performed arm bar done by someone who really knows what they are doing done with the intent to break the arm is just one swift movement which winds up with the opponent’s arm completely useless and the artist back up into a fairly safe position (capable of standing right up and clearing, or re-engaging the opponent).
Again, I disagree. MacYoung never said he was discounting grappling- as he said (and I learned the hard way), you’ve got to know what you’re doing on the ground.
What I’ve always learned, though, and seen, is that the ground is the worst place to be because you’ll get kicked in the head. I garauntee it.
Someone I may or may not know may have had incident where they realized an unfriendly was on the ground and such a thing might have happened.
When I practive BJJ, I try to stay aware of every oppurtunity I have to use a cheap shot. Hell, just grappling alone, no matter what position you’re in, you have the oppurtunity to break any and all fingers, and it takes so little force to do this its’ sick. Grab the balls and twist, eye gouging, fish hooking, and ear ripping are all also extremely easy in that situation.
It just really gets up my ass when people believe that MMA is the be all end all of self defense, because the two are completely different situations with completely different sets of societal rules dictating exactly what happens.
Maybe it just comes from hearing every cock at every bar say, “Don’t fuck wit me dude, I’m going UFC” or “I train MMA, I’ll fuck you up.” Let me save you the trouble- no, you wont.[/quote]
True about grappling and kicking tot he ehad. what makes peopel think the guys buddy is jsut goign to stand by and watch?
Many thanks for posting this Irish. I know there’s times where I imagine fighting certain people in the real world and how I think it would go down. Reading this is a nice reminder that there’s no way to know for sure how any situation would pan out.
[quote]Breakzilla wrote:
baretta wrote:
I think that if you put the average trained MMA guy, or any martial artist for that matter against a guy fighting for his life and that guy will maul the “trained fighter”. At our basic level we are all animals and have in ourselves a great capacity for violence caused by the sense of self preservation. I don’t think in such scenarios you are actually aware of what you are doing, it would be instinct taking over.
I think in the back of people’s minds, no matter how touch your opponent looks, a stand off between two guys, you’re not thinking about getting killed, you are just thinking about not losing. If you add in the factor of fighting for your life, the things you would do would probably disgust the average person watching from the outside, because you would have no inhibitions or morals. I think that is where “fighting” and “self defense” differ and I am pretty sure the latter cannot be taught in a classroom setting.
I too have had the same idea but have been proven wrong before… the trained individual often will prevail even if it means as little as staying collected. The trained guy feels comfortable and can think whereas the crazed “fighting for my life” guy is much more likely to make a dumb mistake.
[/quote]
the trained guy is prepared for a staged combat sport, not a fight to the death. I cant believe anyone can stay calm and collected when someone is trying to kill you. while he’s trying to throw fancy kicks and punches, the other guy just shoved his thumbs in his eyes and is trying to bite his nose off.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Baretta:
Your avatar is mesmerizing. I…can’t…look away. Who is it??[/quote]
I once sat and watched it for 20 minutes straight. It’s like looking into time warp.
[quote]baretta wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Baretta:
Your avatar is mesmerizing. I…can’t…look away. Who is it??
I once sat and watched it for 20 minutes straight. It’s like looking into time warp.[/quote]
It really is fantastic.
[quote]baretta wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Baretta:
Your avatar is mesmerizing. I…can’t…look away. Who is it??
I once sat and watched it for 20 minutes straight. It’s like looking into time warp.[/quote]
DAMNIT. Why keep me in suspense?! We must know who it is!