Should He Stand?

I don’t think the British had a significant military presence in the American colonies prior to the Revolution. Cornwallis sailed to New York to start (and almost end) the rebellion.

Based on what I’ve read, once the seeds of independence were firmly sown I don’t think there was any turning back, but had King George been more accommodating in the 1770s (or so) I think independence wouldn’t have happened. At least not then.

I can’t really give you a parallel example because the dynamics were different in the FFs day. We rebelled against Britain (sorta twice), but the fighting was on our turf and we didn’t defeat the English in a way that required them to rebuild.

Relevance? Is military occupation not the only real requirement of a rebellion starting?

I guess if they had controlled our economy, as is prevelent in current day, but that wasn’t happening either (obviously).

There wasn’t really a military occupation to my knowledge in the colonies and an occupation was the main driver (or even a driver) of the rebellion. The British ruled from across the pond not through force, but a threat of force and that whole divine rule thingy.

I don’t think there has to be an occupation. I think there has to be a legit threat of force, which the British obviously had.

I think it was happening to a degree, depending on what you consider economic control I guess. They created legislation that affected the colonial economy and they taxed without representation. I would consider that economic control.

If England never tried to occupy the colonies militarily, does a war ever happen?

Without an attempted occupation there is literally no fight?

Would that be swayed by our obvious ability to survive economically without them?

Edit: agree it was certainly happening to some degree though, but I feel like that just adds to the parellel, not removed

Penalty for kneeling. What the hell

I wouldn’t say it’s a penalty. It doesn’t cost them anything or take away anything that they are owed

No, if the parent government says okay cool then a war never happens.

England never tried to occupy the colonies, though. THey sailed over to kill a bunch of rebels, hang their leaders (Cornwallis actually thought many could still be saved), and then sail back and collect their taxes. To me, that’s not an occupying force.

It doesn’t have to be an occupying force. It just has to be a superior force. As far as I know, the British did not intend to “occupy” the colonies with their military. They want to get in, crush the resistance, and go home.

It wasn’t such an obvious thing in the 1700s. The US economy wasn’t the juggernaut that it is now and, post-revolution, US ambassadors had a difficult time securing trade agreements with other nations.

So would you say they showed up to militarily occupy the colonies UNTIL such a time that we met their demands? At which point they go home until we stop meeting their demands again?

Feels an awful lot like what we do

No. I would say they showed up to kill everyone that didn’t submit to the Crown and then go home expecting their gold in the mail.

We should tax the Iraqis more then.

We didn’t enter WW2 because of the holocaust. The people who flew planes into buildings were Saudis, if remember right, and we are good buddies with that oppressive regime. We didn’t invade Iraq because of UN sanctions, it was wmds which many called a bs reason at the time.

Yes, I’m aware of that.

Also aware of that.

WMDs was one of the arguments used to invade Iraq, but it was the continued violation of UN resolutions and Saddam’s refusal to allow inspectors into the country that lead to his removal by coalition forces.

Soooo… The demand being submit to the crown…? Not going home until the only people left are submitting to the demands…?

Agreed. At least then we’d have a quanitifed way to show anything positive out of the ME

Wmds was the main reason for going to war as it made Iraq a direct threat to us. Saddam violated un sanctions all the time.

Since the colonies were technically Britain, British troops would not really be an occupying force. There were British troops here before and after the French and Indian War.

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We were already the Crown’s to begin with, though. I think the context matters. This wasn’t England invading the United States. This was England squashing a rebellion in one of their colonies.

Sure. We’re just going round and round the semantics wheel now anyway.

For us, sure.

Imo, it was the final straw not the main drive, but it’s not worth arguing about.

Given that whole DoI thing, they WERE invading the United States. Wasn’t that kinda the point?

Fair point, doesn’t seem to be much reason to continue. It was just a thought I had after seeing my wife’s uncle piss on Jefferson with a fake quote

From a certain point of view, sure. From their point of view they weren’t invading anything. Sorta like how some view the civil war as the “war of northern aggression”.

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Totally unrelated, but I’ve always found it super fascinating how much of human history is determined by the winner.

Makes me wonder how much of “recorded” history is utter bullshit

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Probably a lot of it, sadly.

They already had troops here prior to 1776 so it wasn’t an invasion but a troop increase.