Should Children Be Trusted With Guns?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

It’s of course sensible to teach youngsters how to safely deal with various tools.

But:
Do you think under 15 children should be taught to handle firearms?
The original question was more about early contact with guns, not about gun safety-two entirely different topics.
EVERYONE would vote for a solid mandatory education of new gun owners.

But, to return to the OP’s question, should we introduce guns to kids at a young age (15 and younger)?

This, I think, would be in most civilized countries as pointless as the factual thread evolution up to now (thanks Varqanir).

First, there is a abundance of things a kid or youngster should be taught beforehand.
Does he speak at least other language fluently?
Will he make you a granddad in face of his ignorance concerning sex?
Does he have a fascination, a talent or knack for a certain science, craft or art?
If you left for two or three weeks, could he take care of the house, himself and his little siblings?
(This checklist would be bigger easily, but I have to make it quick, it’s past bedtime for me.)
As long as he won’t qualify in the above items, there is abs. no point in teaching him how to kill things.

Also, how violent must a neighbourhood be if boxing or weightroom lessons won’t suffice? A dangerous situation that can be dealt with a knife is clearly nothing that can be solved with a rifle either, and a neighbourhood so dangerous isn’t the place for your kid to grow up in the first place.

Lastly, is this the world you wanna live in? Your kid might be bright and responsible. Alas, even most adults aren’t. So how do you feel if their super kids are chasing around the block, eager to show off their first gun?

As long as you don’t live in Sudan or a similar region, guns aren’t for kids, especially if they aren’t allowed to have sex or vote (this I cons. a no brainer).

Regards-
Schwarzfahrer

P.S.
If some lucky guy here hunts his own meat, it’s probably an exception. (I haven’t forgotten you Hedo, and I still envy you)

22

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
First, there is a abundance of things a kid or youngster should be taught beforehand.
Does he speak at least other language fluently?
Will he make you a granddad in face of his ignorance concerning sex?
Does he have a fascination, a talent or knack for a certain science, craft or art?
If you left for two or three weeks, could he take care of the house, himself and his little siblings?
(This checklist would be bigger easily, but I have to make it quick, it’s past bedtime for me.)
As long as he won’t qualify in the above items, there is abs. no point in teaching him how to kill things.

Regards-
Schwarzfahrer

P.S.
If some lucky guy here hunts his own meat, it’s probably an exception. (I haven’t forgotten you Hedo, and I still envy you)[/quote]

I’m thinking learning to handle a gun satisfies more basic needs than learning French of playing the oboe. Plus it takes a lot less time.

23

And they may save their siblings’ lives:

[i]Deaths In Merced

by Vin Suprynowicz

SEPT. 24, 2000
Shouldn’t we repeal the gun laws … if it’ll save a single child?

Jessica Lynne Carpenter is 14 years old. She knows how to shoot; her father taught her. And there were adequate firearms to deal with the crisis that arose in the Carpenter home in Merced, Calif., a San Joaquin Valley farming community 130 miles southeast of San Francisco, when 27-year-old Jonathon David Bruce came calling on Wednesday morning, Aug. 23.

There was just one problem. Under the new “safe storage” laws being enacted in California and elsewhere, parents can be held criminally liable unless they lock up their guns when their children are home alone … so that’s just what law-abiding parents John and Tephanie Carpenter had done.

Some of Jessica’s siblings - Anna, 13; Vanessa, 11; Ashley, 9; and John William, 7 - were still in their bedrooms when Bruce broke into the farmhouse shortly after 9 a.m.

Bruce, who was armed with a pitchfork, but to whom police remain unable to attribute any motive, had apparently cut the phone lines. So when he forced his way into the house and began stabbing the younger children in their beds, Jessica’s attempts to dial 9-1-1 didn’t do much good. Next, the sensible girl ran for where the family guns were stored. But they were locked up tight.

“When the 14-year-old girl ran to a nearby house to escape the pitchfork-wielding man attacking her siblings,” writes Kimi Yoshino of the Fresno Bee, "she didn’t ask her neighbor to call 9-1-1. She begged him to grab his rifle and ‘take care of this guy.’ "

He didn’t. Jessica ended up on the phone.

By the time Merced County sheriff’s deputies arrived at the home, 7-year-old John William and 9-year-old Ashley Danielle were dead. Ashley had apparently hung onto her assailant’s leg long enough for her older sisters to escape. Thirteen-year-old Anna was wounded but survived.

Once the deputies arrived, Bruce rushed them with his bloody pitchfork. So they shot him dead. They shot him more than a dozen times. With their guns.

Get it? …[/i]

24

Thanks, Loose Tool. I was going to post that story myself.

Schwarz, I look at it this way:

There aren’t that many things that separate human beings from other animals, but four things stand out in my mind: mechanized transportation, self-regulated sexual activity (we fuck when we want to; most other animals fuck when they have to), mastery of fire, and use of weapons. The skills required to master these things are, therefore, the birthright of every human.

A child should be taught about cars, sex, fire and guns when he or she is physically old enough to use them, and therefore to misuse them.

I wouldn’t worry about a four-year-old boy going out and getting his girlfriend pregnant by accident, so full-on sex education can wait, although he should learn the proper nomenclature of the articles involved,and that it is both improper for him to touch anybody else’s goods, or for anyone else to touch his.

It’s also a bit early to start teaching him how to operate a manual transmission without grinding the gears, because I’m not overly concerned about him taking the Land Rover out on the highway by mistake. I would, of course, sternly teach him that a motor vehicle can squash him flat if he happens to be in the path of a moving one.

Similarly, he’s not too young to know that fire can destroy things and end lives if misused, so I teach him not to play with matches and cigarette lighters. Same goes for firearms. I would teach him the four rules listed above until he could recite them verbatim, even if he didn’t understand all the words yet.

By the time the chid is ten, although he’s still too young to drive, he ought to have an idea how an internal combustion engine works, and what the different parts of an automobile do. He’s certainly too young (both physiologically and psychologically) to have sex, but he ought to have an idea of the mechanics of the operation.

Fire, however, he should have thoroughly mastered by now. The boy should be able to build a solid campfire using nothing but what the forest provides, a small hatchet, and a single match (doing it without the hatchet and match comes later on). He should know how to feed it to keep it alive, to keep it under control, to cook with it, and to extinguish it completely when done.

Similarly, by the age of ten, he should be able, when presented with any common firearm, to check the action and magazine for live rounds, load it and unload it, operate the safeties, to clean and lubricate it, and to hit a target with it. He should also understand why and when to shoot, as well as how.

A mastery of fire, firearms, sex and cars presupposes self-mastery, which in turn presupposes self-control and responsibility. There was a time when most young boys in this country, and in yours, as well, I imagine, were taught these vital skills at an early age.

Rather than worry that a child is too young to learn to use a firearm, because he lacks responsibility and self-control, I take the opposite position: that self-control and responsibility are best taught while the child is still young, and an effective way to instill them is through a rigorous tuition in the proper handling of firearms.

25

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

If some lucky guy here hunts his own meat, it’s probably an exception. (I haven’t forgotten you Hedo, and I still envy you)[/quote]

Actually, Schwarz, it’s not so much an exception as you might imagine. Unlike in Germany, where becoming a Weidmann is an extremely difficult and highly restricted undertaking (and is therefore extremely rare), hunting one’s own meat is quite common in the rural United States, and killing one’s first rabbit, squirrel, quail or deer is an important rite of passage for a great many young boys… and girls.

One more reason for them to learn the tools of the trade, so to speak.

26

Absolutely it should be mandatory

27

[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Do you think under 15 children should be taught to handle firearms?

Walking down the streets, would you feel SAFER, or more INSECURE, knowing each kid you pass by has received gun training ?

Discuss.[/quote]

I would feel safer.

Firearm education takes firearms out of the arena of mystery and romanticism, and puts them into the arena of respect and responsibility.

My boy scout troop went to the firearm range regularly. Combined with years of training on the range, by age fifteen I was an excellent shot.

Meanwhile my peers thought guns were “cool” and mysterious.

ElbowStrike

28

Shwarz,

Have you ever considered that a well placed shot could be looked upon as a demonstration of skill, and to some an art form in its own right?

29

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Shwarz,

Have you ever considered that a well placed shot could be looked upon as a demonstration of skill, and to some an art form in its own right?
[/quote]

Not to mention that it’s the only form of “gun control” worth talking about.

30

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Rather than worry that a child is too young to learn to use a firearm, because he lacks responsibility and self-control, I take the opposite position: that self-control and responsibility are best taught while the child is still young, and an effective way to instill them is through a rigorous tuition in the proper handling of firearms.
[/quote]

ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!!!

Cultures/Countries where “teenagers” are considered responsible adults and expected to act as such have very little “teenage angst” or youth crime problems compared to societies where teenagers are given restriction after restriction after restriction.

Two friends of mine are perfect examples. Alyn’s parents have expected him to act appropriately, take responsibility for his actions, and “know better” from about age 8-10. They actively supported his independence, martial arts and other sports, made sure he took driver training and could drive by his 16th birthday, at which point he was expected to take on grocery runs and give rides to other members of the household. Full responsibility as a driver in the family.

Alyn was an empowered child, and became a responsible adult.

Ryan, on the other hand, had a Stepford Wife for a mother who chauffeured him everywhere, wouldn’t let him eat food outside of the kitchen, get his clothes dirty or wet, allow him to wear anything cheaper than Tommy Hilfiger, or even OPEN THE MICROWAVE WITHOUT A HAND TOWEL! He was forced into music lessons and other “proper” activities in which he had no interest. His entire life up until 18 was dictated by what he was “supposed” to do.

Then, at 18, they buy him a shiny new car and tell him, “Here. You’re old enough. Have fun.” First month with it he gets ticketed 120km/h in a 60-zone. Car seized, license suspended for 3 years.

Ryan was a controlled child, and grew up to be an irresponsible threat to society.

You don’t cage somebody for their entire life, hand them freedom, and expect them to be responsible.

Now if a little boy lives Ryan’s childhood and then as a spoiled boy-man gets his hands on his first gun, he’s a potential danger to the community.

A little boy like Alyn getting a thorough gun education (which he did, btw) grows up to be a Man who buys a gun and becomes an asset to the community.

So yes to gun education, yes to EVERYTHING education – and that includes a thorough education about the risks, consequences and RESPONSIBILITIES that go with it.

ElbowStrike