[quote]MUthrows94 wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Vegita wrote:
MUthrows94 wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Vegita wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
egnatiosj wrote:
crod266 wrote:
what about if u wake to pee at the same time every night, i mean would u guys have a shake?
Absolutely I prefer BCAAs+oil because its a lot less liquid to chug down in the few minutes but a shake works too… Just have it ready before bed so you dont completely wake up… Sleep is very important for GH and Testosterone release so it should not be overlooked.
I try to stay away from co-ingesting BCAAs and oil, simply because the insulin release, combined with high levels of triglycerides is not (IMO) a good idea for lean gains.
BCAA with casein and oil, OK, because the casein acts to slow the rate at which the BCAAs can enter the blood stream, so they work in tandem with the casein to build muscle. Plus the oil is also absorbed slowly in this case, over hours.
BBB
I didn’t know BCAA’s gave one an insulin spike? I thought only Carbs, and specifically, short chain carbs in adequate amounts gave one an insulin spike. I think taking BCAA’s and oil would be perfectly fine, allthough adding some caesin certainly isn’t going to hurt anything. The reality is that Metabolic Drive complete is pretty much ideal for bedtime and mid-night shakes. I mean you can add some leucine or other additives, but it’s pretty well going to give you what you need. I generally add some frozen berries to my shakes, adds some low GI carbs, but also a shit-ton of antioxidants and other polyphenols or whatever that plant stuff is called.
V
L-leucine specifically, causes a monophasic insulin release. It’s part of the reason BCAAs are so anabolic.
I live in the UK, so no Metabolic Drive for me.
FWIW, all foods cause some degree of insulin release (not spike), with the quicker digesting ones being more insulinogenic than slower digesting ones. This is just as true for protein (i.e. whey causes more insulin release than casein) as it is for carbs (glucose being much more insulinogenic than say oats).
You’ll only get an insulin spike from consuming lots of sugar, really. However, it does seem to me to be fairly counterproductive, to consume a substance that is noted for its insulin release (BCAA) alongside a large serving of fat. If you add the casein to slow digestion, therefore blunting the insulinogenic effects of the BCAA, then fine, because BCAA have other benefits besides just their insulinogenic nature. This makes their addition to a nighttime shake a good idea IMO, just not with oil, if you don’t then slow the absorbtion process down.
BBB
But, if the BCAA are consumed at night time wouldn’t you rather have a slow release as opposed to a rapid release. Pre, Peri, and Post workout I understand insulin spikes are the goal but, I figure the inverse would be true for night time. Would it not be better to take BCAA with fat and have them slowly assimilate throughout the night to supply the body with aminos for a prolonged period, rather than a spike and quick absorption???
Yes this is exactly what he is saying, The caesin he is reccomending will effectively lower the GI of the whole meal, though I’m not sure what the exact net result would be. I mean if the GI scale is from 1-100, and even slow digesting carbs regester down in the 25 area, I can’t see a shake with BCAA and oil being higher than 10, the oil will lower the GI of the meal as well.
But I understand what he is saying, I wouldn’t want just BCAA, I would want a complete protein in there as well, I just don’t think the GI of the meal will change all that drastically. However, Caesin does digest and absorb slower than Whey, so it is an ideal nitetime protein.
Also if you ingest 30 grams of Caesin, your getting 3g of leucine in there anyways, so you wouldn’t really need to add in extra leucine. I mean would you really need BCAA added either? your eating a complete protein anyways. I thought you would use BCAA during a workout to prevent your body catabolizing your muscle. IMO a complete protein is preferrable when you are looking for recovery type activities. If you think of your muscle like a vegatable garden, BCAA would be like an insect repellent, and complete proteins would be like fertilizer, sun and water.
V
Nice analogy. BCAA can also be the key which opens the lock to the greenhouse/vegetable garden also, but not, as you point out, in the case of slow-digesting night time meals with casein.
Yes, the oil and the casein will both lower the GI of the meal, since the casein acts to form a gel in the stomach, slowing the rate of gastric emptying. This is perfect for the 6-8 hours you are sleeping.
I would probably rather save my BCAA for peri workout and have the casein, oil and some whey (for taste) before bed, but that’s just me.
BBB
Right I agree with both of you I think the confusion on my part was when BBB referred to taking BCAA with oil [Quote]However, it does seem to me to be fairly counterproductive, to consume a substance that is noted for its insulin release (BCAA) alongside a large serving of fat.[/Quote] I thought this was in regard to taking BCAA at night in which slow digestion would be beneficial. Although not optimal or cost efficient I figured one could take this approach to slow the release of aminos in to the blood stream.
I too take just Casein at night and don’t see the need to take BCAA with it b/c mine (casein) has 10g per serving anyway. I just take BCAA peri and post.
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This is the protocol I would follow, First being the night-time caesin shake, then if you feel the need a second one in the middle of the night, and then also to get BCAA during your workout. I just use Surge Recovery right now pre and post workout, I think sipping it during the workout is a little too much OCD for me. I mean I can see a professional bodybuilder do it. But I highly doubt I will ever see any difference no matter if I take it all in Pre workout or sip it dirung workout.
I haven’t done the required research but my gut instinct tells me there is very little to gain for sipping during your workout. I don’t think the aminos I drink 20 minutes before my workout are going to be gone before my workout is over. It’s usually about an hour long. Also If I sip Surge during my workout will my muscle glycogen stores drop sufficiently enough to make my PWO shake give me that bigger than normal insulin spike? If I have it all 20 minutes before I might be getting low on Glycogen stores in the muscles by the end of the workout, Then again I might not. Like I said I still have to do a bunch of research on this, but for now, i’m staying with what has worked for me and with my gut instinct. (sorry Surge Workout Fuel)
V