[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It is not murder , it is changing locations of the fetus .[/quote]
When you change locations you break you neck? That seems unreasonable.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I guess I am a feminist because I feel until the fetus has ability to survive on it’s own, it life is at the discretion of the mother. It could further be argued that the said fetus could be evicted at moms whim as well , at any time . The state that has draconian laws could pay for life support if they wish[/quote]
You honestly believe that without the ability to take care of oneself, one is not a person?
That rules out infants, old individuals, the mentally challenged, most in the ICU, and many other categories out as people. We can just let them die, and have no moral obligation to assist them, is that right? [/quote]
I did not say that but until the child is viable it isw up to the mothers discretion whether it is the right time to bring a child into (HER) life
[/quote]
She already made the decision when she had sex.[/quote]
that is your opinion , my opinion when she decided to have sex , she decided to have sex >
[quote]Revanchist wrote:
[quote]bdocksaints75 wrote:
You can say what you want but at the end of it all its murder plain and simple [/quote]
In your fabricated black and white world perhaps, but it’s neither plain nor simple when one of your loved ones undergoes an abortion after being impregnated by her rapist. I can attest to that.[/quote]
Yes, it is pretty plain and simple. Both of my God Daughters’ (twins) father is a rapist. I’d appreciate if you would refrain from telling them they shouldn’t have been born.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I did not say the cost should go to tax payers , the biggest logical argument I hear against Abortion is bring it to term and adopt it
This particular web sight has almost 8000 people waiting to adopt http://www.americanadoptions.com/?gclid=CIz_kPHJk7gCFYiDQgodUXUACg
I get it ,it is easier to sit around and claim some one that does not totally agree with everything you say is inferior
All your questions you ask about paternity being different from maternity shows your lack of understanding . It is all about money . Probably the same reason that abortion is legal as well . It an unwanted child is born , it is a drain on tax payers .
I personally think you could make a big dent in the numbers of abortions by adoptions that were prenatal [/quote]
You do know that a good number of women are pressured into getting an abortion? It is about money, boyfriends and family don’t want to take responsibility for the child and they pressure the woman to get an abortion.
Abortion is a profitable business, I’m sure abortion making up a majority of PP business is a good reason why they lobby so heavy.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
I am very close to a rape victim, and I still believe it is wrong to kill a baby because of how it came about. That is punishing the baby for something someone else did to their mother.
I believe the better option would be to give the baby up for adoption, and of course should she choose to keep it, it should go without saying that the father gets no parental rights. Sadly and disgustingly, I’ve been privy to cases where he DID get visitation rights, and that disturbs me on many levels.
[/quote]
I am glad you have it all figured out
[/quote]
Exaggeration much?
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
an unborn child is still a child and it SHOULD have a right to choose its fate[/quote]
And in the same breath.
So, a child should have a right to choose, but then we’re ignorant if we say the same thing?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
an unborn child is still a child and it SHOULD have a right to choose its fate[/quote]
And in the same breath.
So, a child should have a right to choose, but then we’re ignorant if we say the same thing?
[/quote]
see you just cookie cutting what i said to fit your arguement, if you are going to quote from that paragraph then you need to quote the entire thing to get my complete point, by just citing a single portion of a sentence you are misconstruing the initial point.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I did not say the cost should go to tax payers , the biggest logical argument I hear against Abortion is bring it to term and adopt it
This particular web sight has almost 8000 people waiting to adopt http://www.americanadoptions.com/?gclid=CIz_kPHJk7gCFYiDQgodUXUACg
I get it ,it is easier to sit around and claim some one that does not totally agree with everything you say is inferior
All your questions you ask about paternity being different from maternity shows your lack of understanding . It is all about money . Probably the same reason that abortion is legal as well . It an unwanted child is born , it is a drain on tax payers .
I personally think you could make a big dent in the numbers of abortions by adoptions that were prenatal [/quote]
You do know that a good number of women are pressured into getting an abortion? It is about money, boyfriends and family don’t want to take responsibility for the child and they pressure the woman to get an abortion.
Abortion is a profitable business, I’m sure abortion making up a majority of PP business is a good reason why they lobby so heavy.[/quote]
Oh please, There is no point in your opinion. A mother has the right to determine if it is safe to bring a child into this world . If she determines it not to be it is none of my or your or anyone else’s business
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I did not say the cost should go to tax payers , the biggest logical argument I hear against Abortion is bring it to term and adopt it
This particular web sight has almost 8000 people waiting to adopt http://www.americanadoptions.com/?gclid=CIz_kPHJk7gCFYiDQgodUXUACg
I get it ,it is easier to sit around and claim some one that does not totally agree with everything you say is inferior
All your questions you ask about paternity being different from maternity shows your lack of understanding . It is all about money . Probably the same reason that abortion is legal as well . It an unwanted child is born , it is a drain on tax payers .
I personally think you could make a big dent in the numbers of abortions by adoptions that were prenatal [/quote]
You do know that a good number of women are pressured into getting an abortion? It is about money, boyfriends and family don’t want to take responsibility for the child and they pressure the woman to get an abortion.
Abortion is a profitable business, I’m sure abortion making up a majority of PP business is a good reason why they lobby so heavy.[/quote]
Oh please, There is no point in your opinion. A mother has the right to determine if it is safe to bring a child into this world . If she determines it not to be it is none of my or your or anyone else’s business
[/quote]
^this
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Let us assume for a moment the proposition that every child conceived is potentially viable outside the womb, and that a human zygote has as much value (inasmuch as any human life has intrinsic value), as an embryo, fetus, or newborn infant.
If such a proposition is correct, then it would stand to reason that the deliberate killing of such a life form in any stage in its gestation is an equivalent act, so that inducing a miscarriage three weeks in with pennyroyal tea is an act equivalent to decapitating a healthy infant with hedge clippers. A life has been extenguished in either case. How long that life would have lasted, and what would have become of the life in question is irrelevant to our discussion. So too is any attempt to pinpoint at what point along the journey from Fallopian tube to delivery room this lifeform becomes a “person”. It is genetically human from the point of conception, and alive. Ending a human life is ending a human life.
Seems simple enough so far, but here is where the difficulty begins. We split hairs over the definition of the words “viable” and “person” and “murder”. We bicker about morals and ethics and justice and rights. On both sides of the issue.
One side says it is murder. The other side, if they are honest, should at least assert that it is justifiable homicide. Unfortunately for the former group, the law is on the side of the latter. How to change this situation?
No, really. What should one personally do, if one hates the practice of baby-killing, in order to change the laws which permit it? The other side sees only highly emotional, religious extremists picketing clinics, harassing pregnant women, and threatening or killing abortion doctors. Is this the only viable strategy? What is the most effective way to end legal infanticide in this country, besides arguing on an online bodybuilding supplement forum?[/quote]
Do what we’re doing: peaceful protests, education, voting pro-life, putting in pro-life legislation, and providing/fundraising for resources for unplanned pregnancies other than abortion. In Arizona, we have done a great job at doing that, we go to the college campuses to educate, we went to the abortion clinics (most have shut down) and held prayer vigils and handed out education materials about abortion, we voted for pro-life politicians and legislation, we have rallied people behind our politicians to pass pro-life legislation, and we have set up tons of resources for women who find themselves pregnant who may not want to or are not able to raise the child.
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
and the only reason that is, is because we as humans have deemed ourselves that way…just saying[/quote]
No, our crucified Lord Jesus has made us that way. Just saying.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I guess I am a feminist because I feel until the fetus has ability to survive on it’s own, it life is at the discretion of the mother. It could further be argued that the said fetus could be evicted at moms whim as well , at any time . The state that has draconian laws could pay for life support if they wish[/quote]
You honestly believe that without the ability to take care of oneself, one is not a person?
That rules out infants, old individuals, the mentally challenged, most in the ICU, and many other categories out as people. We can just let them die, and have no moral obligation to assist them, is that right? [/quote]
I did not say that but until the child is viable it isw up to the mothers discretion whether it is the right time to bring a child into (HER) life
[/quote]
She already made the decision when she had sex.[/quote]
that is your opinion , my opinion when she decided to have sex , she decided to have sex >
[/quote]
No, that is not my opinion. Sex is the act that creates life, assuming you won’t create life when you do the act in which creates life…that’s called insanity because you think that actions don’t have consequences…you’re insane or you’re a child…those are the only two people who seemingly aren’t able to grasp the idea that actions have consequences.
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
an unborn child is still a child and it SHOULD have a right to choose its fate[/quote]
And in the same breath.
So, a child should have a right to choose, but then we’re ignorant if we say the same thing?
[/quote]
see you just cookie cutting what i said to fit your arguement, if you are going to quote from that paragraph then you need to quote the entire thing to get my complete point, by just citing a single portion of a sentence you are misconstruing the initial point. [/quote]
How did I misquote what you said, you said both statements. I didn’t fundamentally change your statements, I just showed that your premise (first quote) invalidates your conclusion (last quote).
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Oh please, There is no point in your opinion.[/quote]
See you say it is my opinon, but it is not. 64% of women felt pressured to abort.
[quote]A mother has the right to determine if it is safe to bring a child into this world. If she determines it not to be it is none of my or your or anyone else’s business
[/quote]
Well, then tell that to the persons pressuring 64% of women to have abortions to let her determine. They don’t, and 95% of the time it is the baby’s father who forces the woman to have an abortion.
From: Mary K. Zimmerman, “Passage Through Abortion”
They face violence if they don’t in a lot of cases, VIOLENCE.
Not too mention the violence they face AFTER abortion such as increase suicide rate, up to six times higher after they are forced to have an abortion.
Sorry, that is not my opinion. That is called facts and evidence.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Oh please, There is no point in your opinion.[/quote]
See you say it is my opinon, but it is not. 64% of women felt pressured to abort.
[quote]A mother has the right to determine if it is safe to bring a child into this world. If she determines it not to be it is none of my or your or anyone else’s business
[/quote]
Well, then tell that to the persons pressuring 64% of women to have abortions to let her determine. They don’t, and 95% of the time it is the baby’s father who forces the woman to have an abortion.
From: Mary K. Zimmerman, “Passage Through Abortion”
They face violence if they don’t in a lot of cases, VIOLENCE.
Not too mention the violence they face AFTER abortion such as increase suicide rate, up to six times higher after they are forced to have an abortion.
Sorry, that is not my opinion. That is called facts and evidence.[/quote]
I was less impressed by the Stop Forced Abortions website document than the Medical Science Monitor’s study. The former relied predominantly on anecdotal evidence, and cited primarily other antiabortion sources, which indicates bias.
The study on the Medical Science Monitor is fascinating, not as an indictment of abortion, but rather as an indication of the cultural differences between Russian and American girls. Not surprising, but fascinating nonetheless.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
and the only reason that is, is because we as humans have deemed ourselves that way…just saying[/quote]
No, our crucified Lord Jesus has made us that way. Just saying.[/quote]
sorry, but I’m not about to get into a religion debate…
And here’s an observation, everyone is worried about how overpopulated the world is, and the dwindling amount of resources we have, and how the vast amount of pollution is destroying what little ecosystem we have left. Yet all we do is find way to ourselves live longer, and make huge deals about keeping every possible human being alive as long as possible. Maybe we should stop giving a shit about whether or not a woman decides to “kill” her unborn child, and focus on more important matters, like how to best use our limited resources, or advancing space travel, or advancing technology in general…just saying
[quote]stokes1989 wrote:
And here’s an observation, everyone is worried about how overpopulated the world is, and the dwindling amount of resources we have, and how the vast amount of pollution is destroying what little ecosystem we have left. Yet all we do is find way to ourselves live longer, and make huge deals about keeping every possible human being alive as long as possible. Maybe we should stop giving a shit about whether or not a woman decides to “kill” her unborn child, and focus on more important matters, like how to best use our limited resources, or advancing space travel, or advancing technology in general…just saying[/quote]
If you say that out loud, you will be called an immoral atheist racist eugenicist Nazi. Why do you hate babies so much?
See?