physioLojik reiterated the same point…
(By the way, physio…“Sexual Harassment” in the workplace has gotten even MORE out of control than screaming rape…)
Mufasa
js:
If I’m not mistaken (and you guys correct me if I’m wrong), even if there is penetration of a Child, it is not called “Rape”…
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
physioLojik reiterated the same point…
(By the way, physio…“Sexual Harassment” in the workplace has gotten even MORE out of control than screaming rape…)
Mufasa[/quote]
I bet…the whole situation is out of control. It takes the validity out of cases where concern and attention is deserved.
[quote]physioLojik wrote:
Just to chime in here. My little brother (who was 22 at the time) had been dating a girl for three years. They ended up breaking up, and she was so pissed about it that she called the cops and said he raped her. No physical evidence, no one heard anything (even though she lived in a packed apartment complex), and no physical symptoms (even though she said he had pounded her head in the ground for about five minutes, and he was a collegiate wrestler who weighed around 230).
The prosecutors in ohio decided to prosecute him anyway, and after three years they went to trial. The thing wsa a cirus. His ex stammered on the stand and couldn’t get anything right, and to make matters worse for her, her cellhpone record was admitted into evidence to show she had been trying to contact him at not one, not two, but three different phone numbers over six months.
Her reasoning for this? Her cellphone randomly called numbers, and thats why she got rid of it…phew. To make a long story short, he won his case, except that the jury trial judge allowed one count of gross sexual imposition stand, because he admitted to TOUCHING HER ASS. Now he has to register in the state of ohio for ten years as a sexually oriented offender. That decision is under appeal.
My point is this. You cannot judge every case just on the charges involved. Child predators do need to be severely punished. I do not know what I would do if someone hurt my daughter. I feel for every person affected by these people. I just have a new take on it after I have seen how easy it is for someone to say rape, and how someone else’s life can be drastically screwed up because of it.[/quote]
This is true also, but referring to people who target children it is a different scenario.
Today, if you say “Hello, you look nice today.” to the wrong person you can end up with a sexual harrasment lawesuit.
Some people use it as their weapon. “If he breaks up with me Ill say he raped me.” Or “If the boss promote me Ill say he sexually harrassed me in his office.” Shit like that makes me sick.
I’m in like a 3A school. I always recognize people who don’t belong. I always notice the new students and make an effort to talk with them. I’ve always also confronted adults on school property, all it takes is a , “can I help you?” to make sure if they should be there or not. It just takes a little concern. However, I’m sure it’s different in a bigger school.
As far as sex offenders, they need to go back to the earlier psych. days, hook wires to their nads and a battery, show the pics of kids evertime they kid aroused hit the battery. Those was proven to work, they just said it was not humane. Like what one of these freaks did to a kid was humane!
We should lock them up and let a guard “slip” up and tell someone what he/she is in for and it will take care of itself, particularly in a prison with lifer’s who have nothing to loose except there children on the outside.
[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
TornadoTommy wrote:
You can’t convince me otherwise that if they knew for certain that swift and certain death would await them, there would be much less of this happening. Killing these menaces to society is not going to cause a decline in civilization.
That is bull shit and you know it. They are going to do what they do because they do it, regardless of the outcome. This is a fact.
I will not hand over to you, or any man, the right over life and death of anyone. Criminal or not. This is also a fact.
You do not have the right to decide that these people die. When and if the law changes, and the death penalty is legal for these offenders, then I will fight it until my last breath. We are all people, no one has the right to decide life and death over another. [/quote]
If I knew without a doubt that I would die for a crime in a fairly quick manner and not spend 20 years on death row with the possibility of it being commuted to a life sentence, I’d think twice before committing it. Anyone with any common sense would do the same. Therefore it is not bull shit.
Let me ask you TrainerinDC, do you have any family members who have been murdered? I do. Do you know any women who were sodomized repeatedly as a child? I do. You call these criminals people. I call them less than human. Here’s a scenario that happens all too often: Say someone breaks in your house and attacks you, your wife and children and the only way to stop the “person” is by killing him.
At this point, you only have two choices. 1. Let him kill your family. Or 2. Become judge, jury and executioner in a matter of seconds. What are you going to do? Do you still believe that you wouldn’t have the right to take the attacker’s life?
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
If I knew without a doubt that I would die for a crime in a fairly quick manner and not spend 20 years on death row with the possibility of it being commuted to a life sentence, I’d think twice before committing it. Anyone with any common sense would do the same. Therefore it is not bull shit.
Let me ask you TrainerinDC, do you have any family members who have been murdered? I do. Do you know any women who were sodomized repeatedly as a child? I do. You call these criminals people. I call them less than human.
[/quote]
You think I side with the offender, here is your first mistake. I don’t. I side with the normal citizen. As soon as we give the government any leeway to take a right, others follow. I’m sticking up for your rights and mine.
[quote]Here’s a scenario that happens all too often: Say someone breaks in your house and attacks you, your wife and children and the only way to stop the “person” is by killing him.
At this point, you only have two choices. 1. Let him kill your family. Or 2. Become judge, jury and executioner in a matter of seconds. What are you going to do? Do you still believe that you wouldn’t have the right to take the attacker’s life? [/quote]
As soon as the attacker enters my home and attacks my family I am within my rights, and the law, to kill him. Which I would do. Let me inform you, I am from an entirely military and police background. I am a gun owner, 12 currently, and I have a loaded .40 cal within arms reach when I sleep. I also carry a firearm at times on my person.
This aside, when you do not catch the purp in the act, and the law has to get involved, the law is the guiding force for the punishment of the offender. As soon as we make it possible to go outside the law, it can be gone outside against you, or me, or our families or anyone. As citizens we have to ensure that this does not happen. Until the law changes making penalties more strict, I defend the rights of a pedophile, or a murderer, or whoever, simply because by the law they still have rights.
The main point you are missing here is that I agree with you as how they are scum and should be punished. However my personal feeling are not greater than the law. Neither are yours, or anyone’s. As soon as we all use those feelings and get the laws changed, this conversation will not be needed.
I just want to add this tidbit. As I said, I cannot imagine what I would do in given the situation outlined above. I too come from a military family, and rest assured that if someone comes in with bad intentions, they are leaving in a bag.
However, I am reminded of a very famous Benjamin Franklin quote: “ANY SOCIETY THAT WOULD GIVE UP A LITTLE LIBERTY TO GAIN A LITTLE SECURITY WILL DESERVE NEITHER AND LOSE BOTH.”
I tend to agree with that very much.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Zap brings up an important point that I can’t stress enough…
There are “technical” Sex Offenders (that 18 year old having sex with a 16 year old)…
Then there are Child Rapist and Predators…
Too often, we don’t distinguish the two, especially on registries.
Mufasa[/quote]
Agreed, the 19 year old guy who was told by the girl she was 18 and was 15 is a little different than a pedophile.
Andrew Vachss has writen soem great detective novels about this kind of stuff. He’s also a child advocate for with very little sympathy for child predators.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the child predators cannot be changed and are very difficult to help. These people like what they do.
[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
The main point you are missing here is that I agree with you as how they are scum and should be punished. However my personal feeling are not greater than the law. Neither are yours, or anyone’s. As soon as we all use those feelings and get the laws changed, this conversation will not be needed. [/quote]
This is the real point. We can discuss the morality of vigilante justice all day, but it is current slack laws which allow repeat offenders.
If the laws were changed to be based on a combination of psychological evaluation and court/judicial hearing versus the current timed based system, the sentence would become variable in length and many high risk offenders would never get out.
You could also vary the liberties allowed, including embedded GPS tracking, mandatory counseling until the court removes the order,…
No system would be perfect, but a system where the defendant is represented and receives continued assistance would be more beneficial to society than the current system.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
No system would be perfect, but a system where the defendant is represented and receives continued assistance would be more beneficial to society than the current system.[/quote]
Exactly.
Our current system is still based on medieval prisons where the idea was to make prison conditions so traumatizing that the prisoner would either die or, in theory, be so “scared straight” they’d never screw up again.
Surely we can think of better solutions than we came up with during the time when we thought the earth was flat.
– ElbowStrike
Apparently, some think I’m in favor of the government taking away rights. Where did anyone get that? You couldn’t be more mistaken.
I’m saying that a child predator, if found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, deserves to die and I will never change my mind about that. That being said, I must commend TrainerinDC and any other citizens for taking the responsibility for self defense upon themselves.
First of all you have to define what, exactly, contitutes a sex offender.
Stachatory rape laws, would mean that an 18 boy, having sex with his 16 year old girlfriend is a sex offender.
Also the string of teachers who’ve had sex with their students (even if the “kids” were 16 boys who were already sexually active), are listed as sex offenders.
Also Stachatory rape is a strict liability offense. There’s no mens rae, if you do the crime you do the time. It doesn’t matter if the “victim” supplied fake Id cards or a fake birth certificate, or if his/her parents, grand parents and next-door neighbours all swore on a stack of bibles that he/she was 18. If person was underage, you’re going to jail (it has happened).
Maybe we need to categorize the severity of the crime (like murder… there’s murder 1, 2 manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter etc).
Once that’s done, just impose a life sentence if the crime is severe enough. If you rape someone, you go to jail for a long time and might never get out… ever. Rape a child and it’s life in person, without the possibility of parole for at least 15 years.
I once went to http://www.mapsexoffenders.com/ and entered the address of a place that I once visited. I noticed that three registered sex offenders (all offenses involving children) live near an elementary school (one person lived right across the street).
I’m not sure that these guys can be rehabilitated.
[quote]TornadoTommy wrote:
I must commend TrainerinDC and any other citizens for taking the responsibility for self defense upon themselves.[/quote]
Thank you. I have always believed that the front line of crime fighting is the citizen himself. If I can handle my own safety and the safety of my own family without depending on the police, I am that much better off. If everyone were able to handle that safety, we would have a much safer society.