Serving Your Country

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]sjoconn wrote:
I have been off the board and lurking for so long that I doubt anyone will remember me. I retired last year after roughly 9 years as a reservist and 19 years on active duty. I thoroughly enjoyed my time, but when it was time to go�¢?�¦�¢?�¦it was time to go.

Why you did, why you didn’t?

I joined the reserves for college and then never really committed to going towards a specific degree. I went active duty because I was working 2 part-time jobs and not really happy at either one of them. I felt I needed a change and a new challenge.

What did it do for you?

It challenged me every day. It allowed me the freedom to push myself to my limit and go further than I thought I could. It also provided me with a decent living, money to put into investments, a skill-set that is still highly marketable, the ability to help my fellow man, and the direction I needed to finish one degree and continue in my current studies.

What did you do for it?

I did my best. I hope that I made a difference at some point.

Would you go back and do it again knowing what you know now?

Absolutely.

Does it make you more patriotic?

Nope.

Do you like it or hate it when people say “thank you”?

It makes me feel extremely uncomfortable

Regrets? Things you wish you did differently?

Of course there are some regrets. If you constantly push yourself you will always have a tinge of doubt or regret. You just settle with knowing you did the absolute best you could with the information at hand.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If I were you I wouldn�¢??t spend a lot of time worrying over it. I would bet that I could find plenty of soldiers who wished that they had done things differently and had become accountants.
All the best

(I stay out of PWI even as a lurker. Reminds me of bad day-time TV. I just stumbled upon this)
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I remember you, you had a different avi didn’t you?[/quote]

Good memory. Yes I did. I figured this one is more fitting now.

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
But as I get older, I look back at a dumbass kid who knew everything and wish, often, I wasn’t so “smart”.
[/quote]

So true, the more i look back, the more i wish i could beat the shit out of my younger self. In fact, if i were to meet an 18yr old version of myself today, i would probably want to shoot him in the face. The military probably would have changed all of that. [/quote]

For sure. I think back to some of the things I said at eighteen, and am ashamed that I ever thought that way.

I was a high school senior when the Iraq war began and got sucked right into the anti war media campaign. I respected our military, but never really considered it for myself. If I could go back, I’m not sure I would have served, but I would have kept a more open mind about the matter.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I would beat the shit out of myself, and almost got it a couple times in college, lol. I said some of the most ignorant and dumb things I’ve ever said in my life when referring to the military, our country and particularly Vietnam…
[/quote]

Out of curiosity, what’d you say about the military, the U.S., and the Vietnam War?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’ve been thinking about this for awhile, my past, my present and while I don’t regret my decision not to serve (as knowing myself it would have been a disaster for me or the person next to me that I would have gotten killed) but part of me wishes I could go back in time with the mindset and perspective I have now and served.

I’d like to hear from those that want to share about it. Thigns like:

Why you did, why you didn’t?
What did it do for you?
What did you do for it?
Would you go back and do it again knowing what you know now?
Does it make you more patriotic?
Do you like it or hate it when people say “thank you”?
Regrets? Things you wish you did differently?

So on and so forth…

Thanks for those that wish to talk about it. [/quote]

Joined on my 17th birthday, knew there was a big wide world out there and wanted to be part of it, always wanted adventure.

It developed discipline in me that stood solid throughout my life. I have a work ethic that few others have, I gained a appreciation of loyalty to the end with all beings and beasts in my life.

I would do it again without hesitation, I love my country but I hate the politicians.

Don’t mind either way with thankyou, its better than fuck you.

No regrets, not one, life’s to short for that shit.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’ve been thinking about this for awhile, my past, my present and while I don’t regret my decision not to serve (as knowing myself it would have been a disaster for me or the person next to me that I would have gotten killed) but part of me wishes I could go back in time with the mindset and perspective I have now and served.

I’d like to hear from those that want to share about it. Thigns like:

Why you did, why you didn’t?
What did it do for you?
What did you do for it?
Would you go back and do it again knowing what you know now?
Does it make you more patriotic?
Do you like it or hate it when people say “thank you”?
Regrets? Things you wish you did differently?

So on and so forth…

Thanks for those that wish to talk about it. [/quote]

Tried to join Marines. Vision was too poor. Still feel twinges of guilt for not having served. [/quote]

I tried and was turned down due to a knee and Achilles tendon injury. I still feel bad about not serving. My dad did the WWII thing with the Air Force was a reservist for Korea. My older brother did his 20 with the US Army, got out in 2004.

I didn’t serve and always wish I did. Though, I don’t think I would have done well in the military. That’s probably a big part of why I volunteer as a firefighter. I don’t think that stacks up against serving in the military, but it is something I can do to serve at this point in my life.

I was a few weeks from shipping out with the Navy when I was arrested. After I got out, I tried to enlist several times, but they wouldn’t take me. My son just turned 18 and plans to enlist.

I don’t think it makes me “less” patriotic that I was not allowed to serve. There used to be a time when someone who did what I did was given a choice to join the military or go to jail, but those times are behind us.

My life would have been totally different if I had joined the service

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I was a few weeks from shipping out with the Navy when I was arrested. After I got out, I tried to enlist several times, but they wouldn’t take me. My son just turned 18 and plans to enlist.

I don’t think it makes me “less” patriotic that I was not allowed to serve. There used to be a time when someone who did what I did was given a choice to join the military or go to jail, but those times are behind us.

[/quote]

Not entirely behind us.

http://www.martyangelo.com/ex_cons15.htm

I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity.

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

It would be a good start to make service a requirement for positions like president and congress.

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

I think it’s a good idea, but I wouldn’t support it.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

It would be a good start to make service a requirement for positions like president and congress.[/quote]

Agree with President 100%. Not sure how I feel about Congress.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
But as I get older, I look back at a dumbass kid who knew everything and wish, often, I wasn’t so “smart”.
[/quote]

So true, the more i look back, the more i wish i could beat the shit out of my younger self. In fact, if i were to meet an 18yr old version of myself today, i would probably want to shoot him in the face. The military probably would have changed all of that. [/quote]

I would beat the shit out of myself, and almost got it a couple times in college, lol. I said some of the most ignorant and dumb things I’ve ever said in my life when referring to the military, our country and particularly Vietnam…

The worst is, my uncle served in Vietnam. He got really, really drunk one night and told us he was the dude they handed the pistol and flash light to and went diving in the tunnels. (Lord knows if it’s true, but it really seemed so as he talked about it.) He’ll talk about the war if you ask, and are too young to really know better. The shame I feel for the things I said. I wish I could get a class roster for one class in particular and email an apology to each and every one.

I haven’t really gotten the chance to apologize to my uncle, mainly because I’m a coward, but the timing hasn’t been right either. I don’t live around there anymore. And I’m not really feeling the facebook message, he deserves more. [/quote]

What did you say about Vietnam that you now regret? Why do you regret it?

Why you did?
Dumbass kid just out of high school, local National Guard Unit back in early 80’s (when it wasn’t cool)

What did it do for you?
Made me into a better, thankful, more disciplined person.

What did you do for it?
Communications Infantry

Would you go back and do it again knowing what you know now?
Yup one of the best things I have ever did.

Does it make you more patriotic?
I think so

Do you like it or hate it when people say “thank you”?
Only happened once, didn’t know what to say.

Regrets? Things you wish you did differently?
Being a dumbass kid and not staying in for the 20 years, made 14

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

Robert Heinlein would agree.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

Robert Heinlein would agree.[/quote]
Ha ha.

Not joining the military is one of my biggest regrets of my life.

9-11 happened when I was 15, I guess I was lucky in a sense that where I lived presented itself as more patriotic than not. I can still remember loading buddies cars up with American Flags, making t-shirts about America kicking ass and coming for Bin Ladin, and the vigils for the fallen.

I’ve mentioned this before so I wont go into great detail but around that same age shit was hitting the fan with my stepfather, at that point I was going to do anything necessary to get the fuck away from him, and at the top of the list was joining the military. (I think a big part of it was I had this dream to come back after the military and kick his ass, the other was that he hated any type of authority figure.)

After the falling out happened with him and my Mom, and the manipulation started, those desires quickly turned, and were focused more to worrying about girls, partying with friends, football, and going to college like “everyone else”.

Although there were teachers and parents that were anti-war the people that I hung out with were mostly on the pro war side. It wasn’t until the Iraq war started (I was a senior by then) that the seed of “wait what the fuck is actually going on here” was planted in my head.

Throughout my senior year a lot of recruiters would visit the school. It was an easy way out of a class or two to go visit with them. I think one thing that threw me off (then subconsciously) was the type of kids that were joining. I myself grew up poor in a middle to upper class town. My entire childhood/teenage years was always marked with not having what everyone else did. The college seed was planted not only by my grandmother who genuinely wanted better for me, but by the fact that everyone who had money and was successful seemed to either be college graduates, or at the very least “white collar”.

I’d like to say I went to college because it was my grandmother’s dream for her grandchildren to graduate from college. I’d like to say I did it to lead the way for my younger siblings, I’d like to even say I did it because it was the best chance for me to become the most successful. Truth is I did it because my friends were doing it, because girls that I had the hots for, were doing it, and I wanted to impress then, and because it was the easiest way to get away from my family. PERIOD

To be honest though looking back at my 18 year old self, I don’t think it would have been beneficial to join at that point anyways. For others that is, I was way too immature, and underdeveloped. I would have gotten my dick shot off in .2 seconds in the field of war.

Throughout college, though I talked a big game. Football was a failure, my attitude, partying, and issues with authority figures quickly caught up to me and that was that. School was a failure, due to the reasons above, and add in the factor that I somehow fell into the “we’re too good for college” circle.

I’m not sure when it started or how, but at one point around 20 I remember telling myself I should join the military. Then quickly coming up with every excuse possible to not do it. A big factor for me was that it would put unfair stress on my grandmother who was old and sick and was a constant worrier. This became a consistent mindset for me. I was failing out of school, diving heavy into mj, psychedelics, and cocaine, and becoming a basic shut in.

At the end of my junior year (21)I officially failed out of college. I remember it absolutely devastated my grandmother. That along with my partying habits, my parents divorce, and just the over all unnecessary stress that I particularly added to her life, was just too much for her.

I remember that summer telling myself and masking my failures to others by saying that I wanted to join the military, but that I couldn’t because of my grandmother. (how ironic, I know) In a sick way I even got myself to believe the lie.

That summer was a particularly low one for me. Failing out of school, breaking it off with a girl that I really cared for, not being allowed back to my mom’s, my stepfathers constant manipulation, and the constant partying was really taking a toll.
A couple days before the 4th my friend (who’s house I was living at) had another exceptional party. The alcohol and drugs were a flowin and, as usual, we tied another one on that night.

As the night was winding down I went to my room, I remember walking out on the deck attached to the room and just having this overall weird feeling. About 25 feet away from me was their Enormous American flag flailing in the wind, it was lit up in a way that I hadn’t noticed before. Overall it just looked so beautiful. I remember just staring at it, and in some trippy way it was almost waving to me, calling me out.

At that moment, for the first time since I was a child, I prayed to God. I wont get into the exact details, tbh I don’t remember it all now. But I do know I asked for a sign, and told him I’d take it in any way he would give it. And then, the worst thing I’ve ever done in my life took place. I dared to indulge the idea that if it came in the way through my grandmother, then that would be that.

The next morning when I woke up, I had several missed phone calls. My grandmother died early that morning.

Most would be moved to join after that. But not I. To be honest my grandmother’s death was so hard for me to understand and comprehend that it took months before I thought about anything else. That entire moment on the deck that night, haunts me to this day. I know that my actions before that day definitely helped in her demise. Definitely broke her down and definitely added unnecessary stress to her and my family. But to this day I can’t figure out that if what happened on that deck was the final straw, or if what happened on that deck was a parting message…

That fall I started working full time and hated it. While deep down I knew that I should have joined the military, a louder voice in my head convinced me going back to school and getting your degree was the right thing to do. I think in part because although the military would have been better for me, the degree was truly what my grandmother wanted. I re-enrolled back in for the spring semester, with the true intention of getting my degree But when I got back to school, nothing really changed, the partying increased along with my freedom to do nothing. And the “join the military” thoughts started creeping back in again.

That Feb one of my best friends joined the Army. And in retrospect…that is when I should have joined. That was the point of no return if you will. That was the point where If I joined my entire life would have been different…But I didn’t.

It’s been 9 years since my grandmothers passing. There have been plenty of times that I’ve thought about joining since then, but never took the plunge. 9 years my life has been filled with failure, disappointment, and mediocrity. I can’t seem to get out of my own way, the military would have forced me to.

I will say, I do believe you get to a point in life…kinda like where I am now, where it makes absolutely no sense in joining. And you need to take the responsibility to mold yourself into the man you want to become, on your own.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

Robert Heinlein would agree.[/quote]

That is not without a precedent.

Quote James Madison:

The right of suffrage is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right [to vote] exclusively to property [owners], and the rights of persons may be oppressed… . Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property [owners] …may be overruled by a majority without property…

Hence the control of voting rights were delegated to the states to decide. And initially, only property owners were allowed to vote.

In my opinion, we have moved the later scenario Madison listed.

[quote]2busy wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I feel that every adult male once 18, should engage in at least 2 years of service. That should be military primarily, or national guard, peace corps, Teach for America, etc.

Maybe you should not have the right to vote until you have served your country or community in some capacity. [/quote]

Robert Heinlein would agree.[/quote]

That is not without a precedent.

Quote James Madison:

The right of suffrage is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right [to vote] exclusively to property [owners], and the rights of persons may be oppressed… . Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property [owners] …may be overruled by a majority without property…

Hence the control of voting rights were delegated to the states to decide. And initially, only property owners were allowed to vote.

In my opinion, we have moved the later scenario Madison listed.
[/quote]

It’s also important to note the different composition of the military in that time. No standing professional army. Most men expected to help the local militia (serve). That sort of setup made service itself a vote. If the federal government wanted to enforce something on US soil, they literally had to have the support of the ordinary non-professional militia guys who “served”. Showing up or not showing up to serve the militia was a de-facto vote for or against government action.

And that is the most important part of voting. You can’t vote for a policy you aren’t willing to go out and literally make happen. Something that is now entirely missing from our political process.