last summer whch got me interested in testing everything, my total test was 260 ng/dl 240-850
test 3
tsh 1.22 mIU/L .4-4.5
t4, total 6.1 ug/dl 4.5-12
t4, free (non dialysis??) 1 ng/dl .8-1.8
t3, total 6.1 ug/dl 4.5-12
t3, free 2.3 pg/dl 2.3- 4.2
rt3, 27 ng/dl 11-32
ater this test i finshed off the rest of my supps (couldnt afford to continue), went to the nephrologist i was told to see, sent my old doc the report and never heard from them again and that brings me here…
here they are all together…
test 1 - only including thyroid/test values
tsh 0.74 mIU/dl 0.5-4.3
rt3 32 ng/dl 11-32
rdw 15.7% 11-15
t4, total 6.4 ug/dl 4.5-12.5
t4, free 1.2 ng/dl 0.8-1.8
t3, total 52 ng/dl 76-181
t3, free 2.1 pg/dl 2.3-4.2
total test 392 ng/dl 250-110
free test % 2.08 1.5-2.2
free test 81.5 pg/ml 35-155
test 2
t4,total 6.2 mcg/dl 4.5-12
t4, free 1.1 ng/dl .8-1.8
t3, total 58 ng/dl 76-181
t3, free 2.2 pg/ml 2.3-4.2
rt3 30 ng/dl 11-32
tsh (3rd generation???) 2.1 mIU 0.5-4.3
total test 587 ng/dl 250-1100
free test 78.9 pg/ml 46-224
test, bioavailable 165.7 ng/dl 110-575
test 3
tsh 1.22 mIU/L .4-4.5
t4, total 6.1 ug/dl 4.5-12
t4, free (non dialysis??) 1 ng/dl .8-1.8
t3, total 6.1 ug/dl 4.5-12
t3, free 2.3 pg/dl 2.3- 4.2
rt3, 27 ng/dl 11-32
something is off because you have essentially the same reference range for your t3 in pg/dl units as I had in mine for pg/mL… and those are different measurements so it shouldn’t be ~2.0-4.5 for both. If I plug in pg/mL for your t3, you have an 8:1 FT3:RT3 ratio which is bad but actually physically possible.
Anyway, yeah, t3-only might work for you but I would get cortisol 8am draw to make sure your adrenals are ok. Thyroid meds often don’t help if you don’t have proper adrenal support. I strongly suggest this test.
That being said, I strongly second VT’s recommendation that you get a diagnosis from a doc, as your tests clearly indicate your t4 is converting into too much rt3 and not enough t3. I think with your blood tests this shouldn’t be too hard. You could get some quality slow-release t3 from an actual American pharmacy.
Come to think of it, I’m concerned your TSH isn’t elevated - your pituitary should be asking your thyroid to increase its t4 output.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
something is off because you have essentially the same reference range for your t3 in pg/dl units as I had in mine for pg/mL… and those are different measurements so it shouldn’t be ~2.0-4.5 for both. If I plug in pg/mL for your t3, you have an 8:1 FT3:RT3 ratio which is bad but actually physically possible.
Anyway, yeah, t3-only might work for you but I would get cortisol 8am draw to make sure your adrenals are ok. Thyroid meds often don’t help if you don’t have proper adrenal support. I strongly suggest this test.
That being said, I strongly second VT’s recommendation that you get a diagnosis from a doc, as your tests clearly indicate your t4 is converting into too much rt3 and not enough t3. I think with your blood tests this shouldn’t be too hard. You could get some quality slow-release t3 from an actual American pharmacy.
Come to think of it, I’m concerned your TSH isn’t elevated - your pituitary should be asking your thyroid to increase its t4 output.[/quote]
oh, yah free t3 is supposed to be in pg/ml
i do want a doc but they wont treat me… maybe once i am fully shut down they will but until then im doing what i can
im not exactly sure what the adrenals are and this lab work is a bit confusing…
homocysteine, serum 6.7 umol/L less than 11.4
catecholamines, total 259 pg/ml
epinephrine less than 20 pg/ml
norepinephrine, 259 pg/ml
dont see cortisol but it had to be tested… what are the adrenals you were referring to?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
something is off because you have essentially the same reference range for your t3 in pg/dl units as I had in mine for pg/mL… and those are different measurements so it shouldn’t be ~2.0-4.5 for both. If I plug in pg/mL for your t3, you have an 8:1 FT3:RT3 ratio which is bad but actually physically possible.
Anyway, yeah, t3-only might work for you but I would get cortisol 8am draw to make sure your adrenals are ok. Thyroid meds often don’t help if you don’t have proper adrenal support. I strongly suggest this test.
That being said, I strongly second VT’s recommendation that you get a diagnosis from a doc, as your tests clearly indicate your t4 is converting into too much rt3 and not enough t3. I think with your blood tests this shouldn’t be too hard. You could get some quality slow-release t3 from an actual American pharmacy.
Come to think of it, I’m concerned your TSH isn’t elevated - your pituitary should be asking your thyroid to increase its t4 output.[/quote]
oh, yah free t3 is supposed to be in pg/ml
i do want a doc but these idiots wont treat me… maybe once i am fully shut down they will but until then im doing what i can
im not exactly sure what the adrenals are and this lab work is a bit confusing…
homocysteine, serum 6.7 umol/L less than 11.4
catecholamines, total 259 pg/ml
epinephrine less than 20 pg/ml
norepinephrine, 259 pg/ml
dont see cortisol but it had to be tested… what are the adrenals you were referring to?
[/quote]
Mainly cortisol (8am blood draw is best blood test)
^^^Both Quest and Labcorp now offer a 4x/day saliva test for cortisol & DHEA…this should be the new go-to test for adrenals…8 am blood draw is good but only tells a very small part of the story…
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
^^^Both Quest and Labcorp now offer a 4x/day saliva test for cortisol & DHEA…this should be the new go-to test for adrenals…8 am blood draw is good but only tells a very small part of the story…[/quote]
Really? I didn’t see one from labcorp last time I looked. Interesting.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
^^^Both Quest and Labcorp now offer a 4x/day saliva test for cortisol & DHEA…this should be the new go-to test for adrenals…8 am blood draw is good but only tells a very small part of the story…[/quote]
Really? I didn’t see one from labcorp last time I looked. Interesting.[/quote]
well i did the 24 hour piss-in-a-jar test…
total volume 3000 ml
dhea, urine 793 mcg/24h (21-2710)
dhea, urine 550mcg/g creat (24-1640)
still cant find cortisol though…
on another note i have been taking 50 - 75 mcg for over a week and i have more overall energy and am starting to get a bit of acne on my shoulders - maybe my test/free test is picking up?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
on another note i have been taking 50 - 75 mcg for over a week and i have more overall energy and am starting to get a bit of acne on my shoulders - maybe my test/free test is picking up?[/quote]
Could be, but could also be due to increased estrogen…but if you are feeling good, then thats great
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
on another note i have been taking 50 - 75 mcg for over a week and i have more overall energy and am starting to get a bit of acne on my shoulders - maybe my test/free test is picking up?[/quote]
Just for a heads up. When I corrected my Thyroid (I’m also using T3 only) I was able to cut my Test dose into almost half.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you have clinical evidence of your hypothyroidism, why wouldn’t you just find a doctor to work with you so you can get human grade T3 instead of who knows what from India?[/quote]
It’s not alway’s that easy man. I delt with hypo symptoms and thyroiditis for just over 1yr. before I finally took action myself. The excuses for me were one of 2 things #1 your normal even though TSH was over 3.0 and a ultra sound showed swelling or They learn that I’m on TRT and say I’m causing my own problems. I use T3 myself because I had high RT3. Average doses range from 25mcg-100mcg/day in divided doses. Im rigt at 75mcg/day with blood work pending and after 4wks all symptoms have passed and most important the swelling is gone.
I tried Dr’s for over 10yrs and all it did was waste my money. Sometimes the best thing to do is educate yourself as best you can and take care of yourself. [/quote]
You are preaching to the choir, partner…but your case is not the same as the OP…you had an undiagnosed subclinical hypothyroidism, from what I gather, with “normal” bloodwork…this tidbit of information that you may have overlooked:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
my t3…[was] still below the normal range so i said fuck it ordered some cytomel from india[/quote]
indicates to me that he has a diagnosis, or at least would be MUCH easier to attain one than your subcliniical diagnosis…
My statement stands…if you can access quality doctor care, then it is always better than going the self-medicated route…[/quote]
i did have a diagnosis and i quote my [OUR - i no longer try with them] docs words… “major hypothyroidism” yet no treatment besides supplementation
i was then sent to a nephrologist bc he said the t4 converts in the kidney and my BUN was high (high protein diet, training 5 days a week… what do you expect?)
after further research, and john meadows article confirming what i thought today, i was under the impression conversion took place in the liver…
my rt3 was elevated though out testing as well[/quote]
I haven’t read past this post so forgive me if already addressed.
Lots of people don’t convert T4 to T3. There is no reason for a non converter to take T4.
If you have High RT3 your body is probably converting any incoming supplemental T4 into RT3 not T3 thus making your problem WORSE. This was my case.
For RT3 syndrome T3 only IS the correct protocol.
Under a docs supervision.
Your doc would start you at a starting dose… sorry I don’t know what standard is as I take compounded SLOW RELEASE T3 but I will tell you my Dr. Chris Camilerri @ Holtorf Medical Group started me on about 60mcg COMPOUNDED SLOW RELEASE. You then retest every 6-8 weeks and increase dose until your FREET3 number is in the top 2/3-3/4 of the lab range and my doc is ok with mine being even higher.
I SRSLY recommend finding a doc that knows what he is doing.
[quote]Hallowed wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you have clinical evidence of your hypothyroidism, why wouldn’t you just find a doctor to work with you so you can get human grade T3 instead of who knows what from India?[/quote]
It’s not alway’s that easy man. I delt with hypo symptoms and thyroiditis for just over 1yr. before I finally took action myself. The excuses for me were one of 2 things #1 your normal even though TSH was over 3.0 and a ultra sound showed swelling or They learn that I’m on TRT and say I’m causing my own problems. I use T3 myself because I had high RT3. Average doses range from 25mcg-100mcg/day in divided doses. Im rigt at 75mcg/day with blood work pending and after 4wks all symptoms have passed and most important the swelling is gone.
I tried Dr’s for over 10yrs and all it did was waste my money. Sometimes the best thing to do is educate yourself as best you can and take care of yourself. [/quote]
You are preaching to the choir, partner…but your case is not the same as the OP…you had an undiagnosed subclinical hypothyroidism, from what I gather, with “normal” bloodwork…this tidbit of information that you may have overlooked:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
my t3…[was] still below the normal range so i said fuck it ordered some cytomel from india[/quote]
indicates to me that he has a diagnosis, or at least would be MUCH easier to attain one than your subcliniical diagnosis…
My statement stands…if you can access quality doctor care, then it is always better than going the self-medicated route…[/quote]
i did have a diagnosis and i quote my [OUR - i no longer try with them] docs words… “major hypothyroidism” yet no treatment besides supplementation
i was then sent to a nephrologist bc he said the t4 converts in the kidney and my BUN was high (high protein diet, training 5 days a week… what do you expect?)
after further research, and john meadows article confirming what i thought today, i was under the impression conversion took place in the liver…
my rt3 was elevated though out testing as well[/quote]
I haven’t read past this post so forgive me if already addressed.
Lots of people don’t convert T4 to T3. There is no reason for a non converter to take T4.
If you have High RT3 your body is probably converting any incoming supplemental T4 into RT3 not T3 thus making your problem WORSE. This was my case.
For RT3 syndrome T3 only IS the correct protocol.
Under a docs supervision.
Your doc would start you at a starting dose… sorry I don’t know what standard is as I take compounded SLOW RELEASE T3 but I will tell you my Dr. Chris Camilerri @ Holtorf Medical Group started me on about 60mcg COMPOUNDED SLOW RELEASE. You then retest every 6-8 weeks and increase dose until your FREET3 number is in the top 2/3-3/4 of the lab range and my doc is ok with mine being even higher.
I SRSLY recommend finding a doc that knows what he is doing.[/quote]
thank you for contributing.
we (the consensus of the thread) agree t3 w/ a good doc is the way to go.
now that i have my own t3 i just need a DR which im working on…
question about how i should be taking my t3 for the time being
it is my understanding that the half life of t3 is 24 hours.
so is there anything wrong with taking 50-75mcg (all at once) every morning upon waking? - a couple people mentioning time release is worrying me a bit but i never heard of BB’ers using time release
i am taking tiromel - a generic of cytomel
also approximately when can i start seeing body comp changes - yes, im very impatient when it comes to this stuff?
or for those who have started thyroid treatment, when/what did you personally experience?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
question about how i should be taking my t3 for the time being
it is my understanding that the half life of t3 is 24 hours.
so is there anything wrong with taking 50-75mcg (all at once) every morning upon waking? - a couple people mentioning time release is worrying me a bit but i never heard of BB’ers using time release
i am taking tiromel - a generic of cytomel
also approximately when can i start seeing body comp changes - yes, im very impatient when it comes to this stuff?
or for those who have started thyroid treatment, when/what did you personally experience?[/quote]
The thyroid board I frequent those not on slow release split their dose first wake up and early afternoon.
I would think it is important to take the same dose every day that varying dose doesn’t make sense to me and when you do find a doc you will need to be able to give the doc exact info.
As far as body comp, I began receiving proper treatment 4/17/10 was able to workout by 6/1/10 it took longer to start losing fat though and it began very very slowly. My freet3 was around halfway up the labrange by september 2010 that’s also when I started working with my coach and for the first time in years was able to lose fat. It was amazing.
Don’t think in terms of “time” think in terms of optimized t3 levels. Get over half of range and fat loss will become a reality… get up towards the top of range and you’ll really be able to roll.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
still cant find cortisol though…[/quote]
You can order a 4x salivary test from ZRT labs via Canary Club for $109.
While you may be fine with the idea of staying on T3 meds for the rest of your life, you owe it to yourself to dig a little deeper and see if there is any particular reason why your body wants rT3 instead of T3 (or maybe it just can’t help it).
People sometimes find their rT3 issues are the result of improper cortisol levels. If this is the case for you, addressing the root problem will fix both the symptom you are currently treating as well as preventing any other issue(s) that may result down the road that won’t be addressed from your current medication.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
still cant find cortisol though…[/quote]
You can order a 4x salivary test from ZRT labs via Canary Club for $109.
While you may be fine with the idea of staying on T3 meds for the rest of your life, you owe it to yourself to dig a little deeper and see if there is any particular reason why your body wants rT3 instead of T3 (or maybe it just can’t help it).
People sometimes find their rT3 issues are the result of improper cortisol levels. If this is the case for you, addressing the root problem will fix both the symptom you are currently treating as well as preventing any other issue(s) that may result down the road that won’t be addressed from your current medication.[/quote]
i will take that into consideration. my insurance sucks so i may have to put that on hold for a while.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
question about how i should be taking my t3 for the time being
it is my understanding that the half life of t3 is 24 hours.
so is there anything wrong with taking 50-75mcg (all at once) every morning upon waking? - a couple people mentioning time release is worrying me a bit but i never heard of BB’ers using time release
i am taking tiromel - a generic of cytomel
also approximately when can i start seeing body comp changes - yes, im very impatient when it comes to this stuff?
or for those who have started thyroid treatment, when/what did you personally experience?[/quote]
Everything I have read in books suggest that one should split there total dose up and take it every 4hrs while up. This is what I have been experimenting with and it seems to work quite well. I to am using Tiromel. You should google RT3 and look for the site of stop the thyroid maddness or sttm. They have some very good info on there on how to use T3 only meds. It is best to start low and work up. If you take that dose all at once I’m pretty sure you wont like the results.