Scottish Independence

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]EvenIfItsSushi wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
The Scotch are a whinging bunch of worthless socialists who will be in for a rude awakening when they can no longer skive off of the English. As painful as the divorce would be, the English would be far better off to be shod of them.
[/quote]
Haha!.. Scotch is a drink, you tit! Maybe you should try drinking a bottle and you may spout less crap (maybe).[/quote]

It’s also a brand of sticky tape you Pillock! My fathers best friend is a Scotsman,along with some of my relatives. I’ve had to eat more blood pies for Christmas than I care to think about… [/quote]

“Scotch” is plural of “Scot.”

It also means: (1) to block something that rolls with a chock; (2) to maim, but not kill; and (3) “inclined to frugality.”

For example:

The “Some Scotch and some Jews found the same penny and invented copper wire because they are both scotch. The Scotch attacked the Jews in response, but only scotched them because the Jews unscotched the Scotch barrels and they all ran down the streets.”

[/quote]

Maybe in that dictionary. However, if you head to Glasgow and declare that the Scottish (or Scots) are the Scotch look forward to a very unfriendly reception.

It is considered a derogatory term for some reason, similar to ‘Paki’ and ‘Yid’ (although maybe not as strong).[/quote]

Probably closer to the Irish “mick” or German “kraut.”

22

I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.

23

[quote]CMdad wrote:

[quote]furo wrote:
It’s a really interesting one! The Canadian news seems to be portraying both points of view the same way that the British news is. I’ve already voted and while I’m not willing to say which way I went, I will say that I wouldn’t be very disappointed with either outcome. Most of the people I know are voting no because they are happy with the way things are, but I also know a significant number of people who are pro-independence. I think the vote will be close, but my gut tells me that the union will win. [/quote]

Obviously, I don’t have boots on the ground but, my gut instinct would match yours that the no vote will prevail. In 1995 here in Canada, we had our own separation referendum in Quebec where the people of Quebec voted as to whether they wanted to separate from Canada and become their own country.

In the last days leading up to the vote, it seemed that the vote was going to go the way of the separatists but, at the last minute, the federalist sentiments carried the day and the no vote won. I think it’s a case of the “devil you know” vs the one you don’t. [/quote]

We had a republican referendum in Australia. It’s a complex issue here because we had a Constitutional crisis in 1975 when our socialist PM Gough Whitlam bankrupted the country, took out a whole lot of loans secretly to pay for his radical socialist agenda then got dismissed by the Governor General. This polarised the country with conservatives supporting the right of the head of state to dismiss him and the left claiming the GG had no Constitutional authority to dismiss him. So the left wants a head of state with no reserve power to dismiss the PM. And the average person on the street has no idea of the significance of the actual reserve powers the head of state should or should not have and how they should be appointed and so on. Basically the chattering classes can’t be trusted to make those sorts of decisions.

24

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

There is one, but it is significantly smaller and less popular, AFAIR.

25

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

There is one, but it is significantly smaller and less popular, AFAIR. [/quote]

Yeah that’s the general impression I have. Nationalism has never really been strong in Wales for some reason. It’s mostly confined to literature and the Welsh language rather than actual nationalist aspirations. Of course Northern Ireland will never go because being British there is the Protestants’ identity. If they’re not British then what are they? It’s how they distinguish themselves from Catholics.

26

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

There is one, but it is significantly smaller and less popular, AFAIR. [/quote]

Yeah that’s the general impression I have. Nationalism has never really been strong in Wales for some reason. It’s mostly confined to literature and the Welsh language rather than actual nationalist aspirations. Of course Northern Ireland will never go because being British there is the Protestants’ identity. If they’re not British then what are they? It’s how they distinguish themselves from Catholics.[/quote]

Bingo. But some questions are going to need answering if this referendum passes.

  1. Will Ulster Scot protestants be Scottish, English etc. The effect on citizenship for all countries of the UK is an important question.
  2. What will happen to the Union Jack? This is an extremely thorny issue for Northern protestants as is
  3. How does Northern Protestantism handle the added difficulty of their ancestral home seceding from the UK when a foundational plank for their opposition to Catholic Nationalism is just such a cause.

I’m pretty certain there are more than a few members of the Orange order who are praying this referendum fails.

27

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

The Welsh equivalent of the SNP is Plaid Cymru. Here is video of a Plaid Cymru march through Newport.

28

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

There is one, but it is significantly smaller and less popular, AFAIR. [/quote]

Yeah that’s the general impression I have. Nationalism has never really been strong in Wales for some reason. It’s mostly confined to literature and the Welsh language rather than actual nationalist aspirations. Of course Northern Ireland will never go because being British there is the Protestants’ identity. If they’re not British then what are they? It’s how they distinguish themselves from Catholics.[/quote]

Bingo. But some questions are going to need answering if this referendum passes.

  1. Will Ulster Scot protestants be Scottish, English etc. The effect on citizenship for all countries of the UK is an important question.
  2. What will happen to the Union Jack? This is an extremely thorny issue for Northern protestants as is
  3. How does Northern Protestantism handle the added difficulty of their ancestral home seceding from the UK when a foundational plank for their opposition to Catholic Nationalism is just such a cause.

I’m pretty certain there are more than a few members of the Orange order who are praying this referendum fails. [/quote]

Maybe England should seek independence from Britain and the whole operation could move to Belfast. After all, the Unionists are far more enthusiastic about the whole thing than England is.

29

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

The Welsh equivalent of the SNP is Plaid Cymru. Here is video of a Plaid Cymru march through Newport.

Yeah the name rings a bell. Don’t ask me to pronounce it though.

30

[quote]EvenIfItsSushi wrote:

Maybe in that dictionary. However, if you head to Glasgow and declare that the Scottish (or Scots) are the Scotch look forward to a very unfriendly reception.

It is considered a derogatory term for some reason, similar to ‘Paki’ and ‘Yid’ (although maybe not as strong).[/quote]

x2

Please remember to bring the dictionary with you the next time you come to visit. Carrying it in your pants may protect your balls from a volley every time you call the folks there ‘Scotch’!

31

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32

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I haven’t been to the UK for years so I haven’t really been following domestic politics much. Anyone know if there’s a significant Welsh independence movement? If Scotland goes I’m wondering if Wales and the Commonwealth might be next.[/quote]

There is one, but it is significantly smaller and less popular, AFAIR. [/quote]

Yeah that’s the general impression I have. Nationalism has never really been strong in Wales for some reason. It’s mostly confined to literature and the Welsh language rather than actual nationalist aspirations. Of course Northern Ireland will never go because being British there is the Protestants’ identity. If they’re not British then what are they? It’s how they distinguish themselves from Catholics.[/quote]

Bingo. But some questions are going to need answering if this referendum passes.

  1. Will Ulster Scot protestants be Scottish, English etc. The effect on citizenship for all countries of the UK is an important question.
  2. What will happen to the Union Jack? This is an extremely thorny issue for Northern protestants as is
  3. How does Northern Protestantism handle the added difficulty of their ancestral home seceding from the UK when a foundational plank for their opposition to Catholic Nationalism is just such a cause.

I’m pretty certain there are more than a few members of the Orange order who are praying this referendum fails. [/quote]

Maybe England should seek independence from Britain and the whole operation could move to Belfast. After all, the Unionists are far more enthusiastic about the whole thing than England is.[/quote]

That made me chuckle.

33

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
x[/quote]

Ahahaha. That got a good laugh

34

CNN “reports”

36

[quote]pushharder wrote:
U.S. Separatists Watching With Glee as Scots Vote

http://www.Newsmax.com/Newsfront/Scot-independence-Alaskan-Independence-Party-Texas-Nationalist-Movement/2014/09/18/id/595514/#ixzz3DiO0x5mx
[/quote]

What’s your view of US separatist movements?

38

“Making secession sexy in the West is fantastic. If the Scots do vote to secede, it proves that some Western nation under the yoke of empire can exercise its sovereignty and choose to leave.”

Sums up the imbecilic school of thought of American successionists.

39

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
U.S. Separatists Watching With Glee as Scots Vote

http://www.Newsmax.com/Newsfront/Scot-independence-Alaskan-Independence-Party-Texas-Nationalist-Movement/2014/09/18/id/595514/#ixzz3DiO0x5mx
[/quote]

What’s your view of US separatist movements?[/quote]

I think it’d make things mighty interesting.

I could fairly easily make the case that our republic is failing because federalism has been perverted and therefore separatist movements would be justified.

In fact, I’d likely incorporate these words in my argument:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

(emphasis mine)[/quote]

I agree. But I think you’d have to consider what kind of state you’d end up with. My thoughts lead me to what I call “deep state republicanism” - small r. To define:

Republicanism - we all know what that is. Although I would point out I mean republicanism in the Roman/Florentine sense - Constitutional monarchies can qualify as republics.

Deep state - a Turkish contribution to the political lexicon - political, military, intelligence and judicial forces who work beyond the scenes to preserve the secular and nationalist character of the state.

Essentially the people can no longer be trusted to preserve the republic therefore republicans(small r) must work behind the scenes using undemocratic means to achieve their objectives.

If “deep state republicanism” fails then secession would be the only option. This applies to every western country, not just the US. I might start a thread on this concept when I have some time.

40

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
CNN “reports”[/quote]

Hahaha!