Saving Our Economy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
<<< You have fallen into the ‘us versus them’ mentality. Face it, FOX’s Oreily and Hume are extremely bias just as Olbermann and Madow are left on MSNBC. You are a victim of propaganda.

There are no good actors. I did not point out just FOX. You conveniently edited out my objections to CNN and MSNBC. Again, you are locked into the us versus them mentality. This after both Democrat and Republican congressman and Senators just fleased you out of 860 billion dollars.

Face it, there are 2 bands of bandits that operate the government. One group starts with a D and the other starts with an R. Side with any one and you are a stooge. The only place that is still useful to gather information and become more educated about the politics of the day and civics in general is CSPAN.

How long that lasts… I can not tell you. But, keep tuning into FOX and you will slowly become another drooling boob dittohead spewing out someone else’s agenda without reflecting on how that agenda might effect you and your children.

Either smarten up or continue to be part of the problem. You can start by voting out any sitting congressman or Senator. That scum just robbed me, my kids and my future grand-kids.

IF ONLY everybody could be the towering champion of objective sterling analysis that is you.

Wadda pompous toad.[/quote]

I’m just stating the facts. Live with them or live in the dark. Your choice.

22

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
<<< You have fallen into the ‘us versus them’ mentality. Face it, FOX’s Oreily and Hume are extremely bias just as Olbermann and Madow are left on MSNBC. You are a victim of propaganda.

There are no good actors. I did not point out just FOX. You conveniently edited out my objections to CNN and MSNBC. Again, you are locked into the us versus them mentality. This after both Democrat and Republican congressman and Senators just fleased you out of 860 billion dollars.

Face it, there are 2 bands of bandits that operate the government. One group starts with a D and the other starts with an R. Side with any one and you are a stooge. The only place that is still useful to gather information and become more educated about the politics of the day and civics in general is CSPAN.

How long that lasts… I can not tell you. But, keep tuning into FOX and you will slowly become another drooling boob dittohead spewing out someone else’s agenda without reflecting on how that agenda might effect you and your children.

Either smarten up or continue to be part of the problem. You can start by voting out any sitting congressman or Senator. That scum just robbed me, my kids and my future grand-kids.

IF ONLY everybody could be the towering champion of objective sterling analysis that is you.

Wadda pompous toad.

I’m just stating the facts. Live with them or live in the dark. Your choice.[/quote]

Look pal, my views were formed long before there ever was fox news and I know I’m not alone. Nobody tells me what to think, NOBODY. No TV network and no political party. I have principles I believe in that have nothing to do with what I see on TV or what I hear anywhere else.

It just so happens that FOX, while indisputably leaning right also does the best job of reporting everything from every point of view and giving everybody, including some very left wing contributors a voice.

Many of the conservatives here, most actually, have been very critical of the GOP including me if you care to look around a bit.

The evidence of the core causes of this bullshit were in the middle of are not even arguable. If you tell me they are then you are the drooling boob spewing somebody’s agenda.

I agree that this bailout was an abomination, but it happened because of big government anti constitutional intrusion into exactly the areas where the founding fathers of this country wanted government far away from and the roots go back decades.

I don’t need FOX to tell me that, but it is nice to see at least one network actually report it.

23

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
I’m just stating the facts. Live with them or live in the dark. Your choice.[/quote]

What are you, 16?
I ask because this is exactly what I sounded like 2 years ago.
This is fucking creepy.

24

Lots of hostility and personal attacks in here. It’s just like FOX news. I won’t stoop that low. I could write my take on what caused the current banking crisis but don’t know that any constructive argument would follow.

That’s too bad. I enjoy a good debate that is not polluted with ad hominem attacks and a lot of yelling and screaming. This is a thread seemingly filled with a lot of far right leaners that can not even stand the presence of a centrist like me.

Yes centrist. I’m probably more conservative than most of you. I am pro-life, fiscally conservative, socially conservative, against gay marriage, pro-military, pro-draft (or compulsory service for all), anti-affirmative action.

For lower taxes as long as it is fiscally responsible. I’m for pay-go rules and a balanced budget when possible. I don’t like borrowing from China, Japan, Dubai and Saudi Arabia and the like.

On the other side, I do think something has to be done about the financial sector. Glass-Steagle should be revisited.

Some accountability should be tied to any tax payer funds that are used to purchase any mortgage backed securities or other bad debt, regulation of all banking should be revisited and especially the fluidity in which holding banks, financial banks/institutions and insurance companies have been able to trade, especially in these new bundling instruments, should be re-evaluated.

Options trading should be more tightly controlled and if the SEC can’t handle it the way it sits now then defined rules should be put in place so that short selling does not undermine the market.

So yeah, I’m for more regulation that pushes me a little toward the center/left. I am pro-Union. After all, Unions brought us the week end off. I like having week ends off. That pushed me a little more to the center/left.

So there you go, I’m a pompous center right conservative that doesn’t care for FOX, CNN or MSNBC. I’m sick and tired of the propaganda and I’m wondering what happened to my country. I wish K street would go away.

Then ‘we the people’ could get our representatives to work for us. I don’t care for the interlocking board rooms that unite defense contract, Energy, Media. MSNBC is owned by GE and you don’t want to know how much in defense contracts GE has.

When you start to follow the money it just gets uglier and uglier. Maybe you’re better off picking a side. Me, I’ll keep reading history, reading up on our leaders, brushing up on civics, and tuning into Senate and Congressional proceedings on CSPAN.

Go ahead and flame me. I couldn’t really give a f***.

25

No flame.

Great post.

And its true…“follow the money”…

Mufasa

26

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
No flame.

Great post.

And its true…“follow the money”…

Mufasa[/quote]

At last… someone of like mind! :slight_smile:

27

http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/Saving_Our_Economy.avi.torrent

For anybody who didn’t see the fox special and wants to.

To this other guy. I don’t know what gives you the idea that anybody who watches FOX is on one side or the other as far as parties go.

I’m on the side of the defining principles of the United States as founded and on that count both parties are waaaay left.

I am an unabashed constitutional constructionist conservative which means no network or party is on MY side, but the Republicans are closer as pathetically little as that is saying and FOX is fairer to traditional views than any other network.

You come off like somebody who thinks that nobody but you can be exposed to information without becoming a propagandized zombie and I know better. Of course you’re going to say “well, that’s not what I meant”. Fine, that’s what it sounded like.

28

[quote]pickapeck wrote:

You have fallen into the ‘us versus them’ mentality. Face it, FOX’s Oreily and Hume are extremely bias just as Olbermann and Madow are left on MSNBC. You are a victim of propaganda. [/quote]

You attack Fox just like your told to and I am a victim of propaganda?

I never once said O’Reilly was not biased. He is quite biased and opinionated. The point is people are there to give the opposite side of the argument.[quote]

There are no good actors. I did not point out just FOX. You conveniently edited out my objections to CNN and MSNBC. Again, you are locked into the us versus them mentality. This after both Democrat and Republican congressman and Senators just fleased you out of 860 billion dollars. [/quote]

Wait, I quoted everything in your post, nothing was edited out. [quote]

Face it, there are 2 bands of bandits that operate the government. One group starts with a D and the other starts with an R. Side with any one and you are a stooge. The only place that is still useful to gather information and become more educated about the politics of the day and civics in general is CSPAN. [/quote]

First I am neither. Second while I disagree with quite a bit about what both parties do most of the time, that does not mean I am going to condemn all of the all the time. But there is a big problem with people who think based on their party affiliation. But the biggest problem is pure ignorance. Both parties are full of people who are just plain stupid.[/quote]

How long that lasts… I can not tell you. But, keep tuning into FOX and you will slowly become another drooling boob dittohead spewing out someone else’s agenda without reflecting on how that agenda might effect you and your children. [/quote]

And here you go again. When did I say I only get information from Fox? Why do you assume that I do? You actually believe that a television channel dictates my beliefs?

And by the way, dittohead is a Rush Limbaugh listener, who I don’t know if he has been on Fox or not, and I have heard on the radio once (~30 min.) in the past 2 years. (And interestingly was saying at the time that he didn’t think steroids was an important issue.)[quote]

Either smarten up or continue to be part of the problem. You can start by voting out any sitting congressman or Senator. That scum just robbed me, my kids and my future grand-kids.[/quote]

And I have yet to see a modicum of intelligence in anything you have posted here. It just seems like your posting only out of anger, and not logic.

I also am not happy with the bailout package. Neither is Neil Cavuto from Fox. (Though some of the people he interviewed were for it.) Just had to point that you seem to be agreeing with a Fox news anchor.

You want me to keep my mind open, yet tell me I am not allowed to get information from one source. That does not seem open minded to me.

I watch the other news channels, (CNBC quite a bit.) But most my information actually comes from me roaming around the Internet. I read plenty of online newspapers, and magazines, and what source I am reading is constantly changing. Try this some time. Find the same news story, and read it on different newspaper web pages. This is best when you can find the original source article.

29

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
Lots of hostility and personal attacks in here. It’s just like FOX news. I won’t stoop that low. I could write my take on what caused the current banking crisis but don’t know that any constructive argument would follow. [/quote]

The problem here is that any attempt at a logical discussion of the issues are brought to a halt because somebody can’t accept Fox as a news source. And many of these people post from sources that might as well be “IHateBush.com”. And get upset when I question their source.

Most often when somebody complains about Fox, it is too often a way around the argument. Instead of discussing the issues, they attack Fox. I once posted a link about the finding of an ancient Quran, and because it was from Fox News, it must have been biased. (That archeology bias apparently.)[quote]

That’s too bad. I enjoy a good debate that is not polluted with ad hominem attacks and a lot of yelling and screaming. This is a thread seemingly filled with a lot of far right leaners that can not even stand the presence of a centrist like me. [/quote]

I am here, I am debating.[quote]

Yes centrist. I’m probably more conservative than most of you. I am pro-life, fiscally conservative, socially conservative, against gay marriage, pro-military, pro-draft (or compulsory service for all), anti-affirmative action. [/quote]

I am somewhere between conservative and libertarian. Atheist, pro-life, fiscally conservative, against social programs, can accept gay marriage, but do not consider it to be on par with a heterosexual marriage, and do not think those opposed to it should be forced to accept it. Also pro-military, but draft only as a last resort. And affirmative action is a form of racism. (And actually hurts minorities the most.)[quote]

For lower taxes as long as it is fiscally responsible. I’m for pay-go rules and a balanced budget when possible. I don’t like borrowing from China, Japan, Dubai and Saudi Arabia and the like. [/quote]

I am not as worried about who we borrow from as much as how much we have borrowed.[quote]

On the other side, I do think something has to be done about the financial sector. Glass-Steagle should be revisited.[/quote]

Not sure I agree with such tight constriction on business. I do not have a problem with a bank spreading into both investment and commercial banking.[quote]

Some accountability should be tied to any tax payer funds that are used to purchase any mortgage backed securities or other bad debt, regulation of all banking should be revisited and especially the fluidity in which holding banks, financial banks/institutions and insurance companies have been able to trade, especially in these new bundling instruments, should be re-evaluated.

Options trading should be more tightly controlled and if the SEC can’t handle it the way it sits now then defined rules should be put in place so that short selling does not undermine the market. [/quote]

As long as people are not using these instruments to manipulate the market, I see no problem with them. There should be regulation and oversight, but it should not be overwhelming.[quote]

So yeah, I’m for more regulation that pushes me a little toward the center/left. I am pro-Union. After all, Unions brought us the week end off. I like having week ends off. That pushed me a little more to the center/left.[/quote]

Unions have helped create some benefits. I believe the market actually has had more benefit. The problem is that they have become nothing but another big bureaucracy. You have mentioned the idea of us and them before, and the unions really follow that credo.

I do believe that the unions could be designed a little better. And having the union and management work together a little more. Attempting to find common goals. Yes they are there to represent the worker, but they too often go overboard, trying to benefit their members sometimes to the detriment of the company. In fact I would blame them more then the companies for the transfer of jobs overseas.[quote]

So there you go, I’m a pompous center right conservative that doesn’t care for FOX, CNN or MSNBC. I’m sick and tired of the propaganda and I’m wondering what happened to my country. I wish K street would go away.

Then ‘we the people’ could get our representatives to work for us. I don’t care for the interlocking board rooms that unite defense contract, Energy, Media. MSNBC is owned by GE and you don’t want to know how much in defense contracts GE has.

When you start to follow the money it just gets uglier and uglier. Maybe you’re better off picking a side. Me, I’ll keep reading history, reading up on our leaders, brushing up on civics, and tuning into Senate and Congressional proceedings on CSPAN.

Go ahead and flame me. I couldn’t really give a f***.[/quote]

You do realize you have come in, attacked the idea of watching Fox, called the people who do effectively stupid, and are now complaining about flaming. Sorry but that is hypocrisy.

Have you thought about watching it, then giving your opinion of the show and it’s contents? I think that would be closer to a debate.

30

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
When you start to follow the money it just gets uglier and uglier. Maybe you’re better off picking a side. Me, I’ll keep reading history, reading up on our leaders, brushing up on civics, and tuning into Senate and Congressional proceedings on CSPAN.

Go ahead and flame me. I couldn’t really give a f***.[/quote]

Who here has denied any bias in the media?

Name one person. Please.

Your flaming of Fox is one-sided. It is a news source whether you want to admit it, or not. IF you are so objective, why wait until this post to say anything about CNN, or MSNBC?

You do give a shit, or you would not have felt the need defend yourself.

If you don’t like the way things are discussed down here, perhaps this is not the forum for you.

31

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
Obviously watching it would be difficult considering I don’t get Fox News.

I just like to bash Fox whenever possible, especially when people make threads dedicated to a special they’ve done. I mean seriously, no one really considers Fox News a credible source of information, do they?

You don’t consider MSNBC a credible source of information, DO YOU?!?!

Yes FoxNews is slanted right but if you watch it and are relatively good at picking out objectivity and facts you can see right through the slant and digest the real facts.

All news sources are like this… lean to take of the blinders and get all sides of the argument before bashing one side or another. If you use CNN or CNBC or MSNBC as a news source thinking it’s unbiased that just shows how biased you are.

I agree, CNN and MSNBC are nearly as bad as Fox. The only objective network is CSPAN. No screaming. no yelling. Just the facts, the major players, the major experts from all sides and books… lots and lots of books.

Plus you can tune into congress and Senate sessions as well as committee. Perfect source for civics education, an area that most schools have completely removed from curricula.
[/quote]

For all of those who claim I singled out FOX only see above. This is from my second post in this thread. I agreed from the get go that CNN and MSNBC are nearly as bias as Fox.

32

[quote]rainjack wrote:
You pick a quote from over 7 years ago. [/quote]
7 years ago 7 minutes ago. Same shit. Same shit head.

Now he can stop being the White House mouth Piece

Ruppert Murrdock… Ted Turner, what’s the difference. No difference. Two megalomaniacs with agenda.

I watched FOX from 1996 to 2003. They became the mouth piece for the White House. Then Snow officially became the mouthpiece for the White House.

Oberman is a douche and so is his boyfriend Rachel Madow

[quote]Dude - the only people who are militantly anti-Fox, are dipshits who get their marching orders from the daily kos.

You are no different.[/quote]

You called me a dipshit. I tried to play nice. Now go fuck yourself

Do you have a problem with college? Hey I don’t know the kid. I don’t live on this board so I haven’t meticulously deconstructed his character through dissection of his last 700 posts as you have. But he seems to know BS when he sees it so I like the kid.

33

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
<<< For all of those who claim I singled out FOX only see above. This is from my second post in this thread. I agreed from the get go that CNN and MSNBC are nearly as bias as Fox.[/quote]

You went off base with the assumption that somebody who recommends a show on a TV news network must ipso facto be that network’s dupe and incapable of independent thought. There have been people for weeks wishing somebody would bring up the history of the relationship between ranking Democrats and the Fannie and Freddie debacle along with the unarguable truth of the fact that Mccain co sponsored a bill 2 years ago warning of the very thing we are seeing now. In a nutshell.

FOX did it. Nobody else has. One can point that out without being a brain dead victim of somebody’s agenda. Is it impossible that in this case FOX is simply saying what these folks including me have been saying themselves?

It sounds like you and I would agree on quite a bit, but the way you came across rubbed me the wrong way. I have my own style and methods of weight training based on my own experience and all my political views have been reached by me through my own research. I know there are others here for whom this is also true.

Maybe I’m taking this a bit too seriously, but I pride myself on independent thought and am not blessed by the accusation that agreeing with a news show makes me a “drooling boob”.

34

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
<<< For all of those who claim I singled out FOX only see above. This is from my second post in this thread. I agreed from the get go that CNN and MSNBC are nearly as bias as Fox.

You went off base with the assumption that somebody who recommends a show on a TV news network must ipso facto be that network’s dupe and incapable of independent thought. There have been people for weeks wishing somebody would bring up the history of the relationship between ranking Democrats and the Fannie and Freddie debacle along with the unarguable truth of the fact that Mccain co sponsored a bill 2 years ago warning of the very thing we are seeing now. In a nutshell.

FOX did it. Nobody else has. One can point that out without being a brain dead victim of somebody’s agenda. Is it impossible that in this case FOX is simply saying what these folks including me have been saying themselves?

It sounds like you and I would agree on quite a bit, but the way you came across rubbed me the wrong way. I have my own style and methods of weight training based on my own experience and all my political views have been reached by me through my own research. I know there are others here for whom this is also true.

Maybe I’m taking this a bit too seriously, but I pride myself on independent thought and am not blessed by the accusation that agreeing with a news show makes me a “drooling boob”.

[/quote]

I agree with your (what I think are your) thoughts on FAnnie and Freddie. At least 30% of the bad mortgages are based in CRA and most of it is through Fred and FAn from my understanding. Old gay Barnie is into this problem up to his waders. The DEms bear a lot of the responsibility ofr this. Bush actually supported it as it was thought to infuse about 1/4 trillion of liquidity into the economy through housing and construction markets. Trouble is that the mortgages were garbage, in many cases predatory and often purchased by a lot of individuals that were incapable of payment for the extent of the loans. Unfortunately, in my mind, this is only part of the problem. Deregulation allowed passing of the mortgage backed securities very freely thus proliferating across the financial system. The whole thing is a mess and it’s screwing up my investments. I should have put everything into T-bills 8 years ago. I’m just coming to grips with the scope of the problem. I fear that it’s just begun.

35

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
You called me a dipshit. I tried to play nice. Now go fuck yourself[/quote]

You never tried to do anything but post a bunch of outdated crap to support your anti-Fox position.

Are you this big of a baby in real life?

36

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
It’s Fox News, I’m really doubting it’s not riddled with bias.

Anyway, I don’t think my satellite plan has Fox News, it’s improved my life not being able to view the retarded drivel that spills forth from that joke of a news network.

It only took you one post to resort to a personal attack when all I did was point out Fox’s bias. Fuck you Dhickey.

Sooo…you’re not going to watch it? Why even post if you’re not going to actually watch it and comment? That shows real brains. Oh, and thanks for pointing out fox’s bias with not one example or any point in particular. I would say contributor of the year is in the bag.

Example of bias:

“Coming next, drug addicted pregnant women no longer have anything to fear from the authorities thanks to the Supreme Court. Both sides on this in a moment.”–Bill O’Reilly (O’Reilly Factor, 3/23/01.

Evidence of bias;

  1. David Asman, Fox daytime anchor, is formerly of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and the conservative Manhattan Institute.

  2. Tony Snow was a conservative columnist, former chief speechwriter for the first Bush administration and went on to become Bush II Press Secretary.

  3. Fox News Channel’s senior vice president, John Moody, is a long-time journalist known for his staunch conservative views.

Fox News is America’s version of the Russian Pravda since 1996.

[/quote]

O’rielly is a show it’s not a news program. And by your own logic then, you admit that the rest of the news media has a liberal slant because those people are liberals. You can’t have it both ways in saying that conservative people are incapable of reporting with out slant and liberals are fair and unbiased.

It’s bullshit. There is bias every where in the news, by what is reported and what is omitted. Now that we got that out of the way, do we have a link?

To solve the issue of avoiding media slant, do watch the news…Slant is much easier to pick out and avoid in print.

37

[quote]rainjack wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
You called me a dipshit. I tried to play nice. Now go fuck yourself

You never tried to do anything but post a bunch of outdated crap to support your anti-Fox position.

Are you this big of a baby in real life?

[/quote]

You just don’t get it Rainman. I stated that MSNBC, CNN and FOX are all bias. It does not matter that what I posted is a few years old. As a matter of fact it gives perspective. Stop trying to pin anti-FOX label on me. I am an equal opportunity hater of television media save CSPAN. I do like CSPAN.

38

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
You just don’t get it Rainman. I stated that MSNBC, CNN and FOX are all bias. It does not matter that what I posted is a few years old. As a matter of fact it gives perspective. Stop trying to pin anti-FOX label on me. I am an equal opportunity hater of television media save CSPAN. I do like CSPAN.[/quote]

You, my friend, are a sick sadistic SOB if you like watching CSPAN. I blame CSPAN for my mental instability. One should only watch CSPAN when drunk or high. The painful idiocy of our leaders on display 24/7 is pure torture and will drive you quite mad. I would rather be waterboarded.

39

[quote]pat wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
It’s Fox News, I’m really doubting it’s not riddled with bias.

Anyway, I don’t think my satellite plan has Fox News, it’s improved my life not being able to view the retarded drivel that spills forth from that joke of a news network.

It only took you one post to resort to a personal attack when all I did was point out Fox’s bias. Fuck you Dhickey.

Sooo…you’re not going to watch it? Why even post if you’re not going to actually watch it and comment? That shows real brains. Oh, and thanks for pointing out fox’s bias with not one example or any point in particular. I would say contributor of the year is in the bag.

Example of bias:

“Coming next, drug addicted pregnant women no longer have anything to fear from the authorities thanks to the Supreme Court. Both sides on this in a moment.”–Bill O’Reilly (O’Reilly Factor, 3/23/01.

Evidence of bias;

  1. David Asman, Fox daytime anchor, is formerly of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and the conservative Manhattan Institute.

  2. Tony Snow was a conservative columnist, former chief speechwriter for the first Bush administration and went on to become Bush II Press Secretary.

  3. Fox News Channel’s senior vice president, John Moody, is a long-time journalist known for his staunch conservative views.

Fox News is America’s version of the Russian Pravda since 1996.

O’rielly is a show it’s not a news program. And by your own logic then, you admit that the rest of the news media has a liberal slant because those people are liberals. You can’t have it both ways in saying that conservative people are incapable of reporting with out slant and liberals are fair and unbiased.

It’s bullshit. There is bias every where in the news, by what is reported and what is omitted. Now that we got that out of the way, do we have a link?

To solve the issue of avoiding media slant, do watch the news…Slant is much easier to pick out and avoid in print.[/quote]

I read the Wallstreet Journal. I really don’t read any left leaning rag at this time. I read the journal and watch CSPAN in the morning.

40

[quote]dhickey wrote:
pickapeck wrote:
You just don’t get it Rainman. I stated that MSNBC, CNN and FOX are all bias. It does not matter that what I posted is a few years old. As a matter of fact it gives perspective. Stop trying to pin anti-FOX label on me. I am an equal opportunity hater of television media save CSPAN. I do like CSPAN.

You, my friend, are a sick sadistic SOB if you like watching CSPAN. I blame CSPAN for my mental instability. One should only watch CSPAN when drunk or high. The painful idiocy of our leaders on display 24/7 is pure torture and will drive you quite mad. I would rather be waterboarded.
[/quote]

LOL