Saved a Life!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

I am asking you to explain the logic behind the justification of murder, . [/quote]

I am saying that removing a mass of cells is not murder
[/quote]

If a fetus is a mass of cells, so is an infant, a teenager and an adult.

So you are for the legalization of murder then?

[/quote]

The problem with the debate going “there” is that one can spend literal years studying teleology, and philosophy of identity, and the problem of the many and at the end of it, still look back and say: beats me.

I have my car. I take one wheel off: it’s still my car. I keep going until all that’s left is one of the other wheels. This is no longer my car, but the wheel of my car. But where the thing stopped being my car: that’s entirely debatable. And probably subjective, and largely a matter of semantics and arbitrary definition. This is why I don’t think that every detail of the debate can be solved in a country of 300+ million opinions, because in the end one side will say X and the other will say NOT X and there will be nowhere left to go.

I, for example, don’t consider the morning after pill to be an abortion. But I know that some people do.
[/quote]

Good philosophical questions. What makes a ‘thing’ what it is?

The problem with the morning after pill is that it may or may not be an abortion. It depends on whether or not the egg was fertilized and whether or not the fertilization took. It’s an ‘abortifacient’ which means that it will abort a human if the process took place. The problem with the morning after pill is that it is still a slippery slope.

Now at this point I am concerned with numbers. I would consider it a huge victory to get rid of most abortions. It doesn’t mean that I don’t consider it a human life, quite the contrary. But I would accept the rape & incest and morning after pill exceptions for now to get those numbers down and get people on the right thinking for now.
Actually, if we could get the abortion rate below 10,000 I would just shut up. It would be a huge difference.
Numbers do matter.

As to what you spoke of earlier that’s ‘gestalt’ theory. That the whole is greater than the sum of it’s parts. If you had all the parts of your car in a box, it’s not a car. But a car missing some parts IS still a car.

[/quote]

Great point re: being concerned with numbers. That is my principle concern as well, along with the age of the fetus.

Re: the pill, I’m sure you’ve kept up with the science. There’s a lot of recent evidence that the MA pill, or at least Plan B anyway, only uses the mechanism of preventing the release of the egg, and does not interfere with the uterine implantation of a fertilized egg.

182

[quote]pat wrote:
So you are saying viability to live on it’s own defines the value of a human life? You are a human organism. [/quote]

not the value but the right to choose . I am also in favor of euthanasia

183

At least a persons own right to end their own life

184

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

What about a babies right to end their own life? You’re taking that away via abortion.

185

A mother’s body is merely the environment required for an unborn child to survive. Once a child is born, it will still require certain environmental factors. If one may legally remove an unborn child from the environment it requires, should one also not be allowed to place living humans in a room without oxygen, then claim that’s not murder because the people were obviously not self-sustaining?

186

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

What about a babies right to end their own life? You’re taking that away via abortion. [/quote]

after they reach that age . A child would first have to become viable then grow at least to the point where they had the faculty to make that decision

187

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

That IS legal-it’s called suicide.

188

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

What about a babies right to end their own life? You’re taking that away via abortion. [/quote]

after they reach that age . A child would first have to become viable then grow at least to the point where they had the faculty to make that decision
[/quote]

Many people that would euthanize themselves don’t have the mental faulty to make that decision. What then?

189

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
So you are saying viability to live on it’s own defines the value of a human life? You are a human organism. [/quote]

not the value but the right to choose . I am also in favor of euthanasia
[/quote]

Should the value of the human life determine whether it’s right to kill it or not? Should that be intrinsic without respect to stage of development? If you are arguing that stages of human development are the determinant factor as to whether or not that human lives, you are on the slippery slope. It makes it ok to kill long after a child is born. A newborn is useless, it demands more of the parents than the child does inside the mother. Should we not then be able to kill a newborn if we feel overwhelmed by it? Shouldn’t the mother still be able to make the decision to terminate if she feels unable to care for it? Isn’t it still her business and none of ours?

190

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
So you are saying viability to live on it’s own defines the value of a human life? You are a human organism. [/quote]

not the value but the right to choose .
[/quote]

So, again, you are cool with parents shaking their infants to death then?

191

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

What about a babies right to end their own life? You’re taking that away via abortion. [/quote]

after they reach that age . A child would first have to become viable then grow at least to the point where they had the faculty to make that decision
[/quote]

But you are taking away their right to reach that age.

192

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

What about a babies right to end their own life? You’re taking that away via abortion. [/quote]

after they reach that age . A child would first have to become viable then grow at least to the point where they had the faculty to make that decision
[/quote]

Many people that would euthanize themselves don’t have the mental faulty to make that decision. What then? [/quote]

IMO they should have done it when the did have the faculty

193

[quote]NickViar wrote:
A mother’s body is merely the environment required for an unborn child to survive. Once a child is born, it will still require certain environmental factors. If one may legally remove an unborn child from the environment it requires, should one also not be allowed to place living humans in a room without oxygen, then claim that’s not murder because the people were obviously not self-sustaining? [/quote]

ha, good one.

194

Okay, I’m done.

Have fun folks.

195

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Every one is jumping to the conclusion that because it is alive and human = murder . Sperm is alive and it is human [/quote]

LOL

Pro-life people are killing babies all the time!

196

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

That IS legal-it’s called suicide.[/quote]
Actually suicide is most certainly illegal in the US.

197

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

That IS legal-it’s called suicide.[/quote]
Actually suicide is most certainly illegal in the US.[/quote]

I know it’s Wikipedia, but scroll to near the bottom and read about the United States and suicide.

Edit: Apparently I forgot to post a link: Suicide legislation - Wikipedia

198

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

That IS legal-it’s called suicide.[/quote]
Actually suicide is most certainly illegal in the US.[/quote]

I know it’s Wikipedia, but scroll to near the bottom and read about the United States and suicide.[/quote]
Well whatayaknow!

199

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At least a persons own right to end their own life [/quote]

That IS legal-it’s called suicide.[/quote]
Actually suicide is most certainly illegal in the US.[/quote]

I know it’s Wikipedia, but scroll to near the bottom and read about the United States and suicide.[/quote]
Well whatayaknow![/quote]

I thought I posted the link…went back and put it in there…did you already find it for yourself?

200

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
It is a human organism . Until viability it is the mothers choice . Until that child has the ability to live outside the womb , it is none of my or your business
[/quote]

Not to mention the fact it pushes the limit of abortions until the child is like 5 or 6 in the most advanced cases. [/quote]