Saturn: A Double Hexagon!!

[quote]pookie wrote:

That’s not much of an explanation at all, is it? You can explain the color of the sky by saying “God painted it blue” but that gives you no actionable knowledge; it deepens no understanding.

How many planetary poles are we able to observe? For all we know, it’s a common occurrence of gas giants.

An example, of course, is never proof, which is why ID is not accepted as ‘scientific’. I’d never claim that any event is somehow a proof. It DOES however cause us to question.

ID is not scientific because it allows no way to disprove it. It cannot produce the “designer” it claims; and concludes too soon, as you do, that there is no natural explanations for various complex systems encountered in nature.

Instead of taking a perplexing question and looking for answers, as science does, it looks for unanswered questions and tries its hardest to keep them unanswered to support the existence of their theoretical “designer.”

There is nothing to be learned from ID (except as a psychology or sociology experiment), unlike all the other real sciences.
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Science is rooted in Philosophy. David Hume has been a tremendous influence. He established rules that, in effect, bar any sort of religious explanation. That’s good and I certainly agree with that outlook.

The problem arises when those rules become self-limiting. If I say that all of human knowledge is rooted in sensory experience, then any other sort of knowledge is regarded as illusory. A better approach is to divide knowledge into empirical and subjective, the latter being restricted to the one person experiencing something.

That IS knowledge but not objective, in the sense that I can prove an event to another person.

I don’t ‘give up’ as you say. I simply understand that knowledge is not limited to what modern science says it is.

What if it’s an extraterrestrial artifact?

(I know, I know, Occam’s razor is thrashing in pain)

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I don’t ‘give up’ as you say. I simply understand that knowledge is not limited to what modern science says it is.[/quote]

What knowledge is it then? What does it bring, except personal comfort and emotional satisfaction?

In fact, how can you trust it to actually be knowledge if you can’t test it in a scientific way? Science is not rules made up simple to be difficult or to arbitrarily things some people decided they didn’t like. It’s a framework that allows someone to make sure that something they think is true, actually is true, in a testable, repeatable way. Someone else, repeating the same tests will arrive at the same knowledge.

Can knowledge that can’t fit in that framework really be called knowledge? Or is it rather some vague feeling, or something that people know of a common accord (like that Santa’s suit is red.)

[quote]pookie wrote:
What knowledge is it then? What does it bring, except personal comfort and emotional satisfaction?
[/quote]

Subjective experience is not teachable nor is it scientific in the modern sense, but it is certainly knowledge. We know what we see, or hear, or sense, or imagine.

Dialectic, too, is a kind of knowledge. It leads us closer to certain human truths.

Ultimately, what used to be natural philosophy, or the study of nature, is about understanding the cosmos, or the way in which the natural things are ordered. This is a very important form of knowledge. It is not the same thing as knowledge of the human things. So-called social science has attempted to turn that study into a scientific one, but all social scientists are really able to do is measure and count. Prediction is hard to come by.

I somehow doubt that you’ll think that the sort of knowledge I’m speaking of is worth much. That’s your right, of course. I think science, in its proper sphere, is a marvelous achievement of human will and intellect. But modern science does not have a monopoly on knowledge.

Exactly.

Suppose that a nearby 7-11 is robbed. A tall guy with a shaved head and a goatee wearing a ‘Testosterone’ shirt did the deed.

I KNOW that I did not commit the crime, yet cannot objectively prove it. If the clerk mistakenly picks me out of a lineup, I’m screwed (in more ways than one :wink:

This knowledge has value to me. I may suffer, but I know I am not guilty. Subjective? Sure.

Therefore, God exists and created that hexagon! (Just kidding!!)

Go ahead Headhunter, place God riding on Saturn’s pole, science will eventually discover your mistake, thought it may not happen during our lifetime.