Sarah Palin's Speech

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]pushharder wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
…Which were NOT, even at that time, unique to Christianity but originiated in Judaism some 4000 years earlier. Ignorant of history. I don’t think so…

Christianity while considered a separate religion now is really an extension of Judaism. It was founded by Jews and worships a Jew as it central tenet hence the term “Judeo Christian” ethic, etc. [/quote]

So maybe you want to revise. And say that our nation was founded on uniquely Judeo-Christian ideals. However, I think even this untrue. Given the evidence that Jefferson and other key statesmen of the time rejected the divinity of Christ without adopting Judaism.

They internalized the morals and values of the Judeo-Christian tradition without adhering to the religious aspects.

183

schrauper -

Where have you been? Did the election season fervor get to you?

185

[quote]pushharder wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
pushharder wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
pushharder wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
pushharder wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

…I think I get what you’re saying, though. That at the time of the founding of this nation, the morals and values underlying our laws were not uniquely Christian. And I’d agree with that.

That is simply incorrect.

The colonies’ populations were almost exclusively European and Europeans were exclusively Protestants and Catholics. Their morals and values WERE uniquely Christian. They surely weren’t based on native American, Hindu or Muslim values.

The fact that freemasonry and deism was common at that time does not change the above at all.

JS, where do you pull your knowledge of history from?

For that matter, why do so many of you come into the Politics forum with such an incomplete knowledge of basic history? It makes you look so incredibly lame in a debate.

I could care less either way.

Man, don’t say that. Don’t say, “I could care less if I’m ignorant of history. I’m going to strut and preen on a Politics forum like I know what I’m talking about anyway.”

…Christians have no monopoly on any of these values.

Not now but they did then which is PRECISELY why they don’t now. In other words, the “monopoly” was so complete at that time that yes it did ingrain the values so effectively that the monopoly does not exist now. Does that make sense?

And JS, I did not mean to single you out. I see other posters on here with a far more limited knowledge of history then you. You just happened to have posted last right before I chipped in.

Read my post again. I edited it to explain more clearly. There are many scholars who believe Jefferson and other of our founding fathers were in facts deists who THEN did not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Yes, there is no doubt Jefferson was a deist at a particular time in his life. There is no conclusive proof he always was.

He was somewhat unique in his deistic views and was strongly criticized for them by his political foes. If the deistic view was widely accepted and embraced in general he would not have caught so much flak for it.

So, how is it that you can tell me I’m wrong and that these were uniquely Christian values when Jefferson and other founding fathers rejected the divinity of Christ and many of the morals and values underlying Christianity originated in Judaism thousands of years earlier?

The number of founding fathers who embraced the divinity of Christ vastly outnumbered those who didn’t. The number of colonists (the common man, who shed the blood that released the colonies from British tyranny) who embraced the divinity of Christ vastly outnumbered those who didn’t.

[/quote]

Meaning that there were those instrumental in the founding of this nation who were not Christian and that the morals and values they espoused were already distinct from the religious aspects of Christianity. Glad we’re on the same page…anyone have some real bikini pics of Palin

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[quote]jsbrook wrote:
…anyone have some real bikini pics of Palin[/quote]

I have SO been looking for them.

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[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
…anyone have some real bikini pics of Palin

I have SO been looking for them. [/quote]

What was her maiden name? We might have better look searching that.

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[quote]jsbrook wrote:
rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
…anyone have some real bikini pics of Palin

I have SO been looking for them.

What was her maiden name? We might have better look searching that. [/quote]

Sarah Heath, I believe.

190

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
<<< Both parties want a better country. Certainly, the electorate does. >>>

That is the plain fact of the matter. Liberal democrats hate this country or they wouldn’t keep trying to transform into somebody else’s. People seem to think that anything that happens within our border is by definition “American”.

Barack Obama is an American in name only. His worldview is decidedly un American. It IS the state worshiping cradle to grave socialism we fought the cold war to defeat.

I’m tired of hearing about how were all just patriotic Americans trying to do the best we can. Bullshit, the left is my enemy. I have no interest in bi-partisan cooperation with them. I want them defeated.[/quote]

I’m tired of hearing “the right” claim to be the only patriotic Americans…AND act as if they are the status quo of what it is to be “American.” YOU do not hold monopoly on what it means to be American…and believe it or not,you are not the status quo.

These things that you say are an example of why our country will remain stagnant…we have to find a middle ground somewhere to allow our country just to come in eye sight of our “founding form.”

191

Something that really bothered me about Palin’s speech was when she tried to dismiss Obama’s work as a community organizer and generally tried to dismiss the work of a community organizer in general.

Regardless of the level of responsibility and work ethic present in working at the ground level in a community, just who is that sort of message supposed to appeal to? we are all members of various communities, we all live in communities, we all function around, within and adjacent to communities.

The work of a community organizer, or anyone involved in local politics/local issues is just as admirable as the work of the any dedicated public servant. It is all work for the people, and trying to put down and dismiss that is a very elitist thing to say.

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[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Something that really bothered me about Palin’s speech was when she tried to dismiss Obama’s work as a community organizer and generally tried to dismiss the work of a community organizer in general.

Regardless of the level of responsibility and work ethic present in working at the ground level in a community, just who is that sort of message supposed to appeal to?

we are all members of various communities, we all live in communities, we all function around, within and adjacent to communities. The work of a community organizer, or anyone involved in local politics/local issues is just as admirable as the work of the any dedicated public servant.

It is all work for the people, and trying to put down and dismiss that is a very elitist thing to say.

[/quote]

You mean she dismissed his job in the same manner in which he dismissed hers?

Tit for tat, buddy.

What’s with all the cheek turning?

Obama struck first. Don’t come down on Palin because she has a bigger sack than Opie.

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Regardless of who started it. It is wrong either way. Palin is no better for being equally petty.

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[quote]jsbrook wrote:
<<< You’re wrong. >>>[/quote]

No, you’re wrong.

While there have always been disputes about some, even significant issues, the mere presence of disagreement does not mean that’s what we have now.

Any of the major thinkers who contributed to the founding of this country would be mortified at what both parties have become and the democrats are much further along that scale of destruction.

The size, invasiveness and budget of this out of control centralized bureaucracy are exactly the thing they were trying to avoid. The left is crying at the top of their lungs that all our problems can be summed up by it’s not big ENOUGH and the bigger the better.

If they could be brought back from the dead to see what’s become of their grand experiment they would wonder why the hell they bothered. [quote]Just give em their king back, it’d be more efficient.[/quote] If you don’t want to believe that I can’t help it.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

And let’s not fail to mention that Obama “backed into” his US Senate seat. Palin never backed into anything.[/quote]

I’m going to bet her husband would contest that statement.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

Meaning that there were those instrumental in the founding of this nation who were not Christian were vastly outnumbered by those who were and could even be called anomalies and that the morals and values they espoused could not be so easily disconnected from the religious aspects of Christianity.

Glad we’re on the same page…anyone have some real bikini pics of Palin

Fixed that for ya, bud.

For the record, I do understand the point you’re trying to make. I just happen to believe it is a tangential one.[/quote]

Cheers. I know you’re saying that most of the founding fathers and most of the nation was Christian. Of course that’s true.

RJ, the maiden name doesn’t get any better results. The best one is the 1984 black and white headshot where she looks almost naked. That’s pretty nice, though.

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[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Regardless of who started it. It is wrong either way. Palin is no better for being equally petty. [/quote]

Sorry, Charlie - this is politics. Petty is how it is done. If you don’t like the rhetoric now, you’d better find a place to hide for the next 60 days. It hasn’t even got started good, yet.

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[quote]jsbrook wrote:
RJ, the maiden name doesn’t get any better results. The best one is the 1984 black and white headshot where she looks almost naked. That’s pretty nice, though.[/quote]

I have to wonder if, had Gore had the internet invented back then, there would have been this same type of preoccupation with Geraldine Ferraro.

200

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
pushharder wrote:

And let’s not fail to mention that Obama “backed into” his US Senate seat. Palin never backed into anything.

I’m going to bet her husband would contest that statement.[/quote]

But at the same time, I wonder what all else Opie has backed into during his self-discovery.