Ron Paul Revolution

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

I thought that it was pretty well established that Lew Rockwell wrote most of the pieces for the newsletter. [/quote]

That doesn’t absolve Paul’s role in the creation and dissemination, to which he has never provided a credible explanation.

If this is directed at me, you’re wasting your time.

[quote]I will conclude with some scatter-shot.

I would be willing to bet that if I were to comb your past and present that I could come up with some interesting characters with some colorful theories. Since you have known them and had some degree of association, is it therefore justified to assume such association necessitates knowledge of and agreement with any and all such theories? [/quote]

Give me a break. Obama’s association with the vile Jeremiah Wright was certainly important to weighing Obama’s character, was it not? I find it amazing that you are so dismissive of such an ugly pattern and practice of behavior. It’s one thing to have had some strange ideas back in the day - it’s entirely another to traffic in neo-Nazi and racist anti-government militia-types. That isn’t some goofy sidetrack of a college student that doesn’t know any better.

And your apology for it is nothing short of incredible.

We aren’t talking about state mmilitias organized to serve as the local army (in the absence of a standing professional army) - we’re talking about anti-government militias who seek a stand-off with authorities. Want a “Founding Father’s” approach to such a “militia”? Look up the Whiskey Rebellion and a gentleman named George Washington.[/quote]

Actually, none of this was directed at you TB. I know that you are a grizzly old fart. (don’t get riled, I’m playing with you). I will address a few of your comments…

“That doesn’t absolve Paul’s role in the creation and dissemination, to which he has never provided a credible explanation.”
He has not provided a credible explanation to whom? Apparently the head of the NAACP in the Houston area was fine with it. Apparently he had high praise for RP.
The voters in his district were apparently OK with his explanation. They continued to vote him in.
I have read his explanation and I find it credible.

As far as his past associations and whether or not it matters, well…I just love to throw this one out to see how many of the current and former 'Bam fans take the bait.
But to the point…apparently there were many ghost writers other than Lew. Should RP have been more on top of things? Why yes, he should have. I would like to think that he has learned his lesson from this. Again, you must (or should) take into consideration that all that have had meaningful contact with him over the years seem to think that his “walk” is so incredibly congruent that the talk you refer to is most likely from a different source.

As far as militias go, it was fun to throw out. I actually wondered who would cite the Whiskey Rebellion. Should have known it would be you.
I probably do not know enough about the current militia environment to comment too much. I assume that a good portion of them are not necessarily anti-government, but more likely anti “big and overwhelming federal government which steps well beyond the bounds of the constitution.” I am equally sure that a certain portion are bigoted racist pricks who are just looking for a fight and would probably shat their pants if they got one.
Forcing someone to pay for and thereby enable an act that they find immoral and reprehensible, like the murder of a baby, might just be enough to push some in the wrong direction. Who knows? Anyway, as long as they do not break the law and coerce others to due so under threat of harm, I support their right to associate with whom they may.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

Funny…I am an American and I support Ron Paul in his endeavors to become President.

Maybe I don’t fall for all the “straw men”, innuendo and misdirection that folks spread about him.

[/quote]

What do you think of him writing and disseminating Soviet disinfo conspiracy theories about the AIDS virus being created by the US government at the Fort Detrick laboratories? Is that the sort of ‘innuendo and misdirection’ you’re talking about? But RP’s BS about not writing the newsletters is not ‘innuendo and misdirection?’[/quote]

Is it just me or is the newsletter you just posted that is some major point you and TB are hanging on to, CLEARLY read that it is the musings of a Dr Douglass AND he says questioning statements like “could this be” and "i don’t know but its interesting? How scathing!! Even in the first couple sentences saying it is this doctor’s speculation about the origin.
His voting record (and every other candidates for that matter) is more important than this horseshit and if this is what dismisses a candidate for you then I would love to see who you are still able to hold your nose and vote for.

[quote]storey420 wrote:

Is it just me or is the newsletter you just posted that is some major point you and TB are hanging on to, CLEARLY read that it is the musings of a Dr Douglass AND he says questioning statements like “could this be” and "i don’t know but its interesting? How scathing!! Even in the first couple sentences saying it is this doctor’s speculation about the origin.

[/quote]

Don’t recall TB even mentioning it let alone ‘hanging on to’ it. Paul’s Newsletters printed this disinfo and gave credence to it. It’s the sort of stuff that incited people like Timothy McVeigh. And there’s plenty more craziness in the RP Newsletters and Ron Paul himself is an absolute goldmine.

His voting record is important too yes. I’ve been into that many times also.

Ron Paul is not a serious candidate.

When you make a case to NOT vote for Ron Paul, then please tell me why I should listen to your chances rather than the logic of myself? You will fail just telling me your criteria.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
These aren’t my criteria - I am not making the case to vote for or against Paul. I am discussing - specifically - whether in the current environment, Paul could be elected. Period. That’s it. It doesn’t matter if you “could care less” [sic] - I am not trying to convince you not to vote for Paul - I am talking about Paul’s [ichances[/i] in a general election.

Good grief - pay attention.[/quote]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Of course. He’s a demagogue. Very clever at being everything to everyone.

.[/quote]

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Of course. He’s a demagogue. Very clever at being everything to everyone.

.[/quote]
[/quote]

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Of course. He’s a demagogue. Very clever at being everything to everyone.

.[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

On Iran:

‘Let’s make friends with them’

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

Is it just me or is the newsletter you just posted that is some major point you and TB are hanging on to, CLEARLY read that it is the musings of a Dr Douglass AND he says questioning statements like “could this be” and "i don’t know but its interesting? How scathing!! Even in the first couple sentences saying it is this doctor’s speculation about the origin.

[/quote]

Don’t recall TB even mentioning it let alone ‘hanging on to’ it. Paul’s Newsletters printed this disinfo and gave credence to it. It’s the sort of stuff that incited people like Timothy McVeigh. And there’s plenty more craziness in the RP Newsletters and Ron Paul himself is an absolute goldmine.

His voting record is important too yes. I’ve been into that many times also.

Ron Paul is not a serious candidate.[/quote]

I think you’re right you were hung up on that passage and the rest of the newsletters, TB just on the newsletters as a whole. Wonder how many of the examples he has given fall into the same nonsense conjecture box that your example is in? Who cares if he questioned or gave audience to ideas that are out there? I think the stuff that comes out of Rick Perry’s camp is absolute batshit nuts but because it has Jeebus all over it and not a “conspiracy” slant, that’s all good right?

I cant find your commentary on his voting record in this thread. It is exemplary as someone that votes as they say and not flip-flopping and pandering like the other candidates. I’m with you in that he has a snowball’s chance in hell but there are NO other candidates worth half a damn PERIOD. So write him off as a loony but there is no way you’re putting one of the other dbags in the line as a real win for the American people. Another hold your nose and vote against the other guy year. Yeah for America!

[quote]storey420 wrote:

I think you’re right you were hung up on that passage and the rest of the newsletters, TB just on the newsletters as a whole. Wonder how many of the examples he has given fall into the same nonsense conjecture box that your example is in? Who cares if he questioned or gave audience to ideas that are out there? I think the stuff that comes out of Rick Perry’s camp is absolute batshit nuts but because it has Jeebus all over it and not a “conspiracy” slant, that’s all good right?

I cant find your commentary on his voting record in this thread. It is exemplary as someone that votes as they say and not flip-flopping and pandering like the other candidates. I’m with you in that he has a snowball’s chance in hell but there are NO other candidates worth half a damn PERIOD. So write him off as a loony but there is no way you’re putting one of the other dbags in the line as a real win for the American people. Another hold your nose and vote against the other guy year. Yeah for America![/quote]

One question: does Obama’s (previous) association with Jeremiah Wright and Trinity Church matter?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

I think you’re right you were hung up on that passage and the rest of the newsletters, TB just on the newsletters as a whole. Wonder how many of the examples he has given fall into the same nonsense conjecture box that your example is in? Who cares if he questioned or gave audience to ideas that are out there? I think the stuff that comes out of Rick Perry’s camp is absolute batshit nuts but because it has Jeebus all over it and not a “conspiracy” slant, that’s all good right?

I cant find your commentary on his voting record in this thread. It is exemplary as someone that votes as they say and not flip-flopping and pandering like the other candidates. I’m with you in that he has a snowball’s chance in hell but there are NO other candidates worth half a damn PERIOD. So write him off as a loony but there is no way you’re putting one of the other dbags in the line as a real win for the American people. Another hold your nose and vote against the other guy year. Yeah for America![/quote]

One question: does Obama’s (previous) association with Jeremiah Wright and Trinity Church matter?[/quote]

Yes it is taken in consideration for sure but damn sure not this massive smoking gun that some make it out to be. Bad choices, yep, I can find them on EVERY single one of the candidates and then they just have to be ranked in order of heinousness based on my personal worldview. I know some people that won’t even entertain a candidate due to their stance on abortion. I am WAY more concerned about the candidate’s voting record (if they have one), how they will protect and promote my civil liberties, and what their stances are on economic matters. I wouldn’t even consider Obama for his voting record alone.

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I’m on the fence about RP. I think his stance on Iran is suicidally wrong.[/quote]

Why?

You think they were right about Iraq?

[quote]storey420 wrote:

Yes it is taken in consideration for sure but damn sure not this massive smoking gun that some make it out to be. Bad choices, yep, I can find them on EVERY single one of the candidates and then they just have to be ranked in order of heinousness based on my personal worldview. I know some people that won’t even entertain a candidate due to their stance on abortion. I am WAY more concerned about the candidate’s voting record (if they have one), how they will protect and promote my civil liberties, and what their stances are on economic matters. I wouldn’t even consider Obama for his voting record alone. [/quote]

But I am not talking about you - I’ve always been talking about Paul in the general election. And his past creepy past associations - along with his weak explanations - are enough to doom him, even setting all the other wacky problems (conspiracy theories, blame-America-first, etc.).

Such a digusting association wouldn’t be overlooked, and his feeble explanation - “I don’t really know who wrote them”…well, you made millions from them, have you bothered to ask? How do you still not know? - sounds to me like a political candidate savvy enough to start suddenly having amnesia about the associations when they became politically inconvenient.

Many libertarians have said “well, I can forgive that as long as he is consistently libertarian otherwise” - that’s idiocy. Character matters. David Duke might want to lower taxes, that doesn’t mean I would seriously consider him as a candidate.

So the troops hate Ron Paul? Tell yourself whatever you need to justify your behavior.

'Dick Morris was a guest on Sean Hannity’s radio show this week. Fred Thompson was guest hosting and conducted an interview with political strategist Dick Morris speaking about the Republican primary race for President.

During the interview, Dick Morris had this to say about supporters of Ron Paul:

“No true patriot could be for Ron Paul.”

A response to this comment has been recently published by a veteran of the Iraq war on the blog, “Combat Veterans for Ron Paul 2012” and then linked on the very popular blog, “Daily Paul”. Here is an excerpt from the letter from Iraq War veteran Nick Allison, US Army:

“I would like to see him tell a veteran to his face, a soldier or marine- someone who was wounded in Afghanistan, who lost buddies in Iraq, who spent years of his life away from his family, who came home with mental as well a physical scars from fighting an immoral and unnecessary war with one hand tied behind his back with red-tape and bureaucratic bullshit- that he is somehow not a true patriot, simply because he supports Ron Paul for President.”

The claim by Ron Paul’s campaign that he has consistently received over twice the amount of political donations than all the other candidates put together every quarter that he has been running for President is not just some slick talking points or unfounded campaign rhetoric. The facts have been verified and confirmed by most major news organizations throughout our country. Obviously, the biased mainstream media thoroughly has fact-checked this claim many times with FEC reports.

The posting of this story on these 2 blogs alone has generated a firestorm of comments from active duty and retired military alike that are rightfully infuriated.

As a former Army wife, I join our men and women on active duty and all our veterans in voicing my outrage to Dick Morris for this pathetically and politically-motivated, disgusting statement. “Shame on you!” Considering Dick Morris during the Vietnam War was of the prime age to have served but neither volunteered nor otherwise served our country in uniform, by what credentials does this man consider himself qualified to be judging whether any American is a true Patriot or not?

This is not just a case of media bias and political stunts; Dick Morris has gone way over the line and owes a sincere apology to all the members of our military, our veterans (including Dr. Ron Paul) and their families.

Enough already.’

The above article came from - http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-washington-dc/dick-morris-comment-on-hannity-infuriates-our-troops

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:

So the troops hate Ron Paul? Tell yourself whatever you need to justify your behavior.[/quote]

Er, who said the troops hate Ron Paul? No one I can see.

Let me guess - seeting a straw man so you can attack it?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

Yes it is taken in consideration for sure but damn sure not this massive smoking gun that some make it out to be. Bad choices, yep, I can find them on EVERY single one of the candidates and then they just have to be ranked in order of heinousness based on my personal worldview. I know some people that won’t even entertain a candidate due to their stance on abortion. I am WAY more concerned about the candidate’s voting record (if they have one), how they will protect and promote my civil liberties, and what their stances are on economic matters. I wouldn’t even consider Obama for his voting record alone. [/quote]

But I am not talking about you - I’ve always been talking about Paul in the general election. And his past creepy past associations - along with his weak explanations - are enough to doom him, even setting all the other wacky problems (conspiracy theories, blame-America-first, etc.).

Such a digusting association wouldn’t be overlooked, and his feeble explanation - “I don’t really know who wrote them”…well, you made millions from them, have you bothered to ask? How do you still not know? - sounds to me like a political candidate savvy enough to start suddenly having amnesia about the associations when they became politically inconvenient.

Many libertarians have said “well, I can forgive that as long as he is consistently libertarian otherwise” - that’s idiocy. Character matters. David Duke might want to lower taxes, that doesn’t mean I would seriously consider him as a candidate.[/quote]

Fair enough and obviously the MSM has already begun the push to publicize this aspect of his candidacy as much as possible. At least they will finally mention him instead of the blackball approach they have been doing :] but again every candidate has either a past creepy association or a god awful voting record that clearly shows what they would actually do in office.

[quote]storey420 wrote:

Fair enough and obviously the MSM has already begun the push to publicize this aspect of his candidacy as much as possible. At least they will finally mention him instead of the blackball approach they have been doing :] but again every candidate has either a past creepy association or a god awful voting record that clearly shows what they would actually do in office.[/quote]

Not like this. Politicians have to associate and shake hands with all kinds of people. Pandering to racist fringe groups, neo-Nazis and anti-government conspiracists? Completely different flavor. Compltely beyond the pale.

I get it. You wished it wasn’t so. If Paul had any chance at a legitimate candidacy otherwise (and he really doesn’t, by the way), this would provide the death knell in a general election as the lights shine brighter on his past. Paul supporters can try and equivocate and dissemble the association as practically meaningless, but it ain’t. It’s disgusting.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

Fair enough and obviously the MSM has already begun the push to publicize this aspect of his candidacy as much as possible. At least they will finally mention him instead of the blackball approach they have been doing :] but again every candidate has either a past creepy association or a god awful voting record that clearly shows what they would actually do in office.[/quote]

Not like this. Politicians have to associate and shake hands with all kinds of people. Pandering to racist fringe groups, neo-Nazis and anti-government conspiracists? Completely different flavor. Compltely beyond the pale.

I get it. You wished it wasn’t so. If Paul had any chance at a legitimate candidacy otherwise (and he really doesn’t, by the way), this would provide the death knell in a general election as the lights shine brighter on his past. Paul supporters can try and equivocate and dissemble the association as practically meaningless, but it ain’t. It’s disgusting.
[/quote]

I agree that he doesnt have a chance at the Republican nomination. Most people will marginalize him, cling to this bit that you are and somehow check their moral standing at the door and vote for a complete dbag like Gingrich or Romney, both professional politicians/schmoozers who will say ANYTHING to get the vote and based on their records will most likely do the opposite just to try and prevent Obama from re-election thinking they are doing the best thing they can to save our country all the while ensuring the continued destruction. THAT is what’s disgusting, and yes even more disgusting than 20 year old newsletters possibly maybe written by, somewhat endorsed by, kinda sorta not repudiated, etc.
But by all means feel awesome for trouncing the possibility of a Paul candidacy and vote for the jerk off you think is do justice in Washington.

TB- My fault! I was in another thread where the topic of ‘the troops don’t like Ron Paul’ came up. My apologies for mistakenly thinking it was you in this discussion.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Er, who said the troops hate Ron Paul? No one I can see.

Let me guess - seeting a straw man so you can attack it?
[/quote]