Ron Paul On The Record

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1241

[quote]arnoldseven wrote:
Hey, Mick, what da ya think of this?
[/quote]

I’m not mick either, but where were Carter, Dukakis, and Clinton polling by late October of '75, '87, and '91?

By late October of 2003, Lieberman’s early-season lead among the Dems had slipped considerably.

Now I’ve said before that I don’t think much of polls, and I still don’t, but when a guy is polling a distant 4th or 5th in his own party just a couple of months before the first primaries, well, forgive me if I don’t think much of his chances.

It won’t be too long before we see for sure, though.

1242

[quote]JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.
[/quote]

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

1244

[quote]orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

[/quote]

compromise = tyranny?

You have a very warped view.

1245

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

compromise = tyranny?

You have a very warped view.[/quote]

You understand me pretty well, but your desire to score cheap points seems to be stronger.

There really is no point to go further into this if you do not understand the reason for the American constitution or any constitution for that matter.

Thank God that they forced us to learn that stuff.

1246

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

compromise = tyranny?

You have a very warped view.

You understand me pretty well, but your desire to score cheap points seems to be stronger.

There really is no point to go further into this if you do not understand the reason for the American constitution or any constitution for that matter.

Thank God that they forced us to learn that stuff.

[/quote]

Jeff looks like he had a legitimate point about compromise being vital to making a democracy work. Our constitution has checks and balances and varied terms for elected officials thus forcing compromise between the various entities.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make but as far as I can tell you were the one taking a cheap shot. I was merely pointing out how silly a statement you made.

1247

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Hey ron, what happens when they interrupt trade? What happens when they take your ships?

He must not have read his Founding Fathers very well.

See, to me, you’re nuts. Why fight a war over stuff that may or may not happen? If it happens deal with it and move on. We don’t need endless wars of aggression to prevent “bad stuff” from happening.

Get a night-light if you have bad dreams or get over it.[/quote]

lifty,

It’s painful watching you squirm

I noticed you couldn’t answer my basic question. It’s THE tenet of ron paul’s foreign policy and it’s based on a fantasy.

He constantly defers to the Founding Fathers. What you aren’t understanding (and he expects your ignorance and blind obediance) is that Jefferson and others were forced to INTERVENE to protect American interests.

Fortress America is a myth. Always has been, always will be.

JeffR

1248

[quote]orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

[/quote]

bota,

You need to read. Take a peek at the Constitutional Convention of 1787. Then look up the Amendments to the Constitution.

The Constitution is the ESSENCE OF COMPROMISE.

Further, it’s beauty is it’s ability to be changed as time goes on.

It isn’t a static document.

JeffR

1249

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Fortress America is a myth. Always has been, always will be.
[/quote]
Who is talking about fortress America? I am talking about bringing the troops home from a stupid, pointless war. Over 3000 people have died pointless deaths because of this ignorant administration.

Bush and his clones are a bunch of pussies who sent people to die and kill for no god damned good reason.

1250

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
compromise = tyranny?

You have a very warped view.[/quote]

Compromise means one is willing to cede to wrong. Compromise is what happens when politicians sell their soul for power.

1251

[quote]JeffR wrote:
The Constitution is the ESSENCE OF COMPROMISE.
[/quote]
Ok, you need to quit talking now. You don’t know what you are talking about. The constitution is the law of the land. It is the basis for our legal system. There is no room for compromise. There are legal ways to change the constitution as provided in that document. That is not compromise.

You are the same as all the tyrannical who pay lip service to this document whom send people to die in the name of defending it. You have questionable morals.

1252

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
compromise = tyranny?

You have a very warped view.

Compromise means one is willing to cede to wrong. Compromise is what happens when politicians sell their soul for power.[/quote]

Compromise is what happens when people want two different things for dinner.

1253

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
The Constitution is the ESSENCE OF COMPROMISE.

Ok, you need to quit talking now. You don’t know what you are talking about. The constitution is the law of the land. It is the basis for our legal system. There is no room for compromise. There are legal ways to change the constitution as provided in that document. That is not compromise.
…[/quote]

Compromise is what is required to get most bills passed and signed into law. The Constitution forces compromise.

1254

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Compromise is what is required to get most bills passed and signed into law. The Constitution forces compromise.
[/quote]
Over 80% of all the bills that get passed into law are unconstitutional. The constitution is completely ignored by nearly every lawmaker.

1255

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Compromise is what is required to get most bills passed and signed into law. The Constitution forces compromise.

Over 80% of all the bills that get passed into law are unconstitutional. The constitution is completely ignored by nearly every lawmaker.[/quote]

Where did you come up with that number?

1256

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

compromise = tyranny?

You have a very warped view.

You understand me pretty well, but your desire to score cheap points seems to be stronger.

There really is no point to go further into this if you do not understand the reason for the American constitution or any constitution for that matter.

Thank God that they forced us to learn that stuff.

Jeff looks like he had a legitimate point about compromise being vital to making a democracy work. Our constitution has checks and balances and varied terms for elected officials thus forcing compromise between the various entities.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make but as far as I can tell you were the one taking a cheap shot. I was merely pointing out how silly a statement you made.[/quote]

He wants Paul to make a compromise on things that are constitutional issues for Paul and frankly for everyone else that remain honest about this.

There can be no compromises.

You either change the constitution or you follow its instructions as they are written.

In a way a constitution puts into writing what a society is not willing to compromise on and what areas are not up for popular vote.

Since your representatives have sworn to uphold that document, maybe a Ron Paul lesson about it is in order.

1257

[quote]JeffR wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

bota,

You need to read. Take a peek at the Constitutional Convention of 1787. Then look up the Amendments to the Constitution.

The Constitution is the ESSENCE OF COMPROMISE.

Further, it’s beauty is it’s ability to be changed as time goes on.

It isn’t a static document.

JeffR
[/quote]

Changed, yes.

But not by BS maneuvers like the Interstate Commerce Act.

If people want the Federal government to have more power, so be it.

To load a Supreme Court with your hacks and have them re-interpret a law to violate the spirit if not the exact words of the constitution is not it.

1258

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Compromise is what happens when people want two different things for dinner.[/quote]

Yes, but if the constitution said steak is for dinner then STEAK IS FOR DINNER!! It can be amended and that is the only legal way to change it. There is a reason we have this document and that is to provide a framework for our legal system and government operation. If we do not follow it there is no point in having it.

1259

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Fortress America is a myth. Always has been, always will be.

Who is talking about fortress America? I am talking about bringing the troops home from a stupid, pointless war. Over 3000 people have died pointless deaths because of this ignorant administration.

Bush and his clones are a bunch of pussies who sent people to die and kill for no god damned good reason.
[/quote]

lifty,

Your usual drivel aside, I’ll point out that your hero, ron paul, routinely states in the debate that he’d pull troops out, pursue a policy of strict non-interventionism, and says things like “we don’t need to send troops we’ll trade with them.”

THAT IS FORTRESS AMERICA CRAP. The problem, of course, is that guys don’t always play nice regarding trade. If we become completely defensive, what’s to stop a replay of the Barbary Pirates fiasco?

jeffR

1260

[quote]orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:
orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:

The basis of Democracy is the ability to compromise.

But not on the constitution.

That is the basis for tyranny.

bota,

You need to read. Take a peek at the Constitutional Convention of 1787. Then look up the Amendments to the Constitution.

The Constitution is the ESSENCE OF COMPROMISE.

Further, it’s beauty is it’s ability to be changed as time goes on.

It isn’t a static document.

JeffR

Changed, yes.

But not by BS maneuvers like the Interstate Commerce Act.

If people want the Federal government to have more power, so be it.

To load a Supreme Court with your hacks and have them re-interpret a law to violate the spirit if not the exact words of the constitution is not it.

[/quote]

bota,

First of all, “BS” is in the eye of the beholder.

You (especially you) can’t decide what is BS unless the people speak.

We vest our power in our Representatives. They speak according to our wishes.

If the PEOPLE decide things are “BS” they change the document.

Again, ron paul is playing his whip the Ragers into a froth. He offers a simple solution to complex problems. He thinks the Constitution can only be interpreted HIS way. He thinks anyone else is a traitor to the Spirit of '76.

He states “You don’t follow the Constitution” as if his interpretation is unchallenged.

When, in fact, as I am discussing, his historical knowledge and interpretation is very much in question.

See continually claiming the Founding Fathers were 100% opposed to foreign intervention (Barbary Pirates and Tom Jefferson).

Again, his preachy/whiney/overbearing manner coupled with his foreign policy naivete, makes him a pariah within his party.

JeffR