Ron Paul: Don't cut NPR GTFO of Afghanistan

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

My mistake I was referring to judgment of logic.

Judgment of values is always subjective.

Judgment of logic – which is what I was referring to about your post – has to rest on objective knowledge. True or false?

Your judgment of logic is flawed if you put the valuation of the collective (which doesn’t even make sense) over the individual.[/quote]

More absurd babble. A person can certainly “value” the collective over the individual - fathers and mothers do it all the time for their children and family . Such a value judgment is exactly that - a humane value, and subject to the individual’s level of commitment to that value on your precious “scale”. Humans have been doing this since they were, well, humans - and even non-humans do it.

Anyone who has any sense as to actual Humans - i.e., not you - recognizes that Humans are curious mix of priorities, which includes desires for individualism and community. Neither extreme is where Humans actually lie, and any economic “ism” that pretends such is about as viable as phrenology, which is why communism (your first love) occupies the cellar with Austrian economics (your second love).

I have to say - you have really brought your extra special level of dumb today. Seriously, new lows for you, and that is saying something.

You said it! [quote]“A person can certainly ‘value’ the collective over the individual - fathers and mothers do it all the time for their children and family.”[/quote]

I win. Only individuals can make a judgment of values. Not the collective. Because an individual values something does not make it universally correct – even if MANY individuals do so.

Instead of coming up with such snazzy put-downs you should work on a your understanding of logic.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

I win. Only individuals can make a judgment of values. Not the collective. Because an individual values something does not make it universally correct – even if MANY individuals do so.[/quote]

I didn’t say a “collective” came up with the judgment, I expressly said a “person” did - and a “person” can certainly make a “personal” choice that he values some “collective” over others. A father most certainly decides to value the “collective” of his fmaily over some other “individual” value.

I figured it out - it’s not just that you aren’t that bright - you’re actually illiterate.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

True - the complaint is that the Austrian school’s “remedy” for market failures is inadequate given market participant’s threshold for non-intervention.

True, barriers to entry cause market distortions and whither away competititon - Austrian school focuses on the only meaningful barrier to entry as “impossible to compete”, but in reality, other barriers making entry “difficult” is the the realistic aspect that market participants want in the rules of the market. Actual market participants (as opposed to armchair philosophers opining from their mom’s basement) do not want the impossiblly high standard of “it’s only a barrier to entry if it’s impossible!”, and it’s a waste of otherwise productive resources, thus the Austrian’s ideological purity falls short of providing an adequate remedy to monopolistic practices.

No one raised the “broken window fallacy”, sober up. Pure market solutions cannot adequately deal with major environmental and chemical catastrophes. Lawsuits and insurance are “after the fact” remedies to try and make victims whole, but people don’t want that - they want rules of the game to help prevent such accidents from happening in the first place. Moreover, due to the complexity of environmental problems (i.e., poisons can spread from origin sources and lay dormant, thus creating a near impossibility to establish actor liability), a regulatory regime is required outside of property rights enforcement.

Let’s unpack this - so, I might be right…or I might be wrong? Genius.

I didn’t say Austrians claimed, I said they think it. Look no further than your fellow Austrians insisting that all human activity can be reduced to economics. Austrian economists worship at the altar if Economism with blind faith. Ordinary humans do not behave in accordance with Austrian ideology.

Well, it definitionally is not an ad hominem, but color me unsurprised that you have no idea what you are talking about on that count. More to it, it is a political observation as t o where Austrian dogma leads. People don’t see the world as Austrian economists want them to, so when this “program” (not unlike Scientology) gets crammed down their throats, they begin looking for alternatives, and the results aren’t usually very good.

I’ve said it before - nothing makes Social Democracy more appealing to US citizens than to have Ron Paul speaking at a podium extolling the virtues of Austrian economics.

Nope, and I even noted an aspect that I really like about Austrian economics (theories on malinvestment).

I realize it breaks your heart that someone might not believe your precious dogma can make the world anew in utopian terms, but that’s too bad. Austrian economists are barely different than Marxists (certainly not in their most basic assumptions), which is why the world (thankfully) passes them by on the path to governing real human affairs.[/quote]

So, you have strong opinions on the issue.

You are still wrong in claiming that Austrians actually believe all this stuff.

However, I do not think that you need my help to butcher all the strawmen you erect.

[quote]orion wrote:

So, you have strong opinions on the issue.

You are still wrong in claiming that Austrians actually believe all this stuff.

However, I do not think that you need my help to butcher all the strawmen you erect.[/quote]

Leave Austrian economics alone!

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

So, you have strong opinions on the issue.

You are still wrong in claiming that Austrians actually believe all this stuff.

However, I do not think that you need my help to butcher all the strawmen you erect.[/quote]

Leave Austrian economics alone![/quote]

“It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a â??dismal science.â?? But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”
â?? -Murray N. Rothbard

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

If ZEB is right about paul, then there must be one guy in the entire country of america that has the same political wiews as paul and that also has all the other things that ZEB talks about. [/quote]

Probably not, for the simple fact that anyone who suscribes to Paul’s clown act definitionally cannot come across as a sane, responsible, articulate adult who has succeeded at anything worthwhile in their professional lives.[/quote]

Dr. Ron Paul, was an OBGYN and delivered over 4000 babies, sounds like he succeeded at something in his professional life.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

If ZEB is right about paul, then there must be one guy in the entire country of america that has the same political wiews as paul and that also has all the other things that ZEB talks about. [/quote]

Probably not, for the simple fact that anyone who suscribes to Paul’s clown act definitionally cannot come across as a sane, responsible, articulate adult who has succeeded at anything worthwhile in their professional lives.[/quote]

Dr. Ron Paul, was an OBGYN and delivered over 4000 babies, sounds like he succeeded at something in his professional life.[/quote]

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

If ZEB is right about paul, then there must be one guy in the entire country of america that has the same political wiews as paul and that also has all the other things that ZEB talks about. [/quote]

Probably not, for the simple fact that anyone who suscribes to Paul’s clown act definitionally cannot come across as a sane, responsible, articulate adult who has succeeded at anything worthwhile in their professional lives.[/quote]

Dr. Ron Paul, was an OBGYN and delivered over 4000 babies, sounds like he succeeded at something in his professional life.[/quote]

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

I’m not sure what I believe anymore, I’m studying Burke and Brownson, &c (John Adams, currentlY). But, Paul still has my favor of aristocrats at the moment.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

Seems to me that Dr. Paul uses a presidential run as a national platform to espouse his views. Similarly, he has been doing this with his congressional office for a long time.

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

Seems to me that Dr. Paul uses a presidential run as a national platform to espouse his views. Similarly, he has been doing this with his congressional office for a long time.[/quote]

And all this time he could have been delivering more babies. Time well spent? I think not.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

I’m not sure what I believe anymore, I’m studying Burke and Brownson, &c (John Adams, currentlY). But, Paul still has my favor of aristocrats at the moment.[/quote]

You’re in a good place with Burke (and Brown), and further study will illuminate the distinct position that Burke can’t be reconciled with what passes for libertarianism these days - and certainly not with Dr. Paul.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

I’m not sure what I believe anymore, I’m studying Burke and Brownson, &c (John Adams, currentlY). But, Paul still has my favor of aristocrats at the moment.[/quote]

You’re in a good place with Burke (and Brown), and further study will illuminate the distinct position that Burke can’t be reconciled with what passes for libertarianism these days - and certainly not with Dr. Paul.
[/quote]

I figured if I was going to be Catholic I might as well go all the way and picked up a book written by Kirk as an introduction to conservative thought and something that reconciled the ordaining of government from G-d and with the fact that we are of a fallen nature.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

Seems to me that Dr. Paul uses a presidential run as a national platform to espouse his views. Similarly, he has been doing this with his congressional office for a long time.[/quote]

And all this time he could have been delivering more babies. Time well spent? I think not.[/quote]

Ron Paul for President? Perhaps not, but I want more ‘traditional’ conservative views expressed and Paul is one of a very few to do so.

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

Seems to me that Dr. Paul uses a presidential run as a national platform to espouse his views. Similarly, he has been doing this with his congressional office for a long time.[/quote]

And all this time he could have been delivering more babies. Time well spent? I think not.[/quote]

Ron Paul for President? Perhaps not, but I want more ‘traditional’ conservative views expressed and Paul is one of a very few to do so.
[/quote]

Tell me why you think he has a more traditional conservative view.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

Seems to me that Dr. Paul uses a presidential run as a national platform to espouse his views. Similarly, he has been doing this with his congressional office for a long time.[/quote]

And all this time he could have been delivering more babies. Time well spent? I think not.[/quote]

On this point we will likely agree to disagree.

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I’m impressed, but I would be more impressed if he stuck to being a doctor and stopped thinking he can get elected to the Presidency - he can’t.[/quote]

Seems to me that Dr. Paul uses a presidential run as a national platform to espouse his views. Similarly, he has been doing this with his congressional office for a long time.[/quote]

And all this time he could have been delivering more babies. Time well spent? I think not.[/quote]

On this point we will likely agree to disagree.[/quote]

No, no I know what you mean. I always enjoy it when an inconsequential minor league candidate gets to have his day in the sun.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
No, no I know what you mean. I always enjoy it when an inconsequential minor league candidate gets to have his day in the sun.[/quote]

As I’ve said in the past, it isn’t necessarily about either getting elected or “having his day in the sun” but rather spreading the message of liberty. Dr. Paul has simply chosen the vehicle of his congressional office as well as a couple of presidential campaigns for this purpose.

[quote]cloakmanor wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
No, no I know what you mean. I always enjoy it when an inconsequential minor league candidate gets to have his day in the sun.[/quote]

As I’ve said in the past, it isn’t necessarily about either getting elected or “having his day in the sun” but rather spreading the message of liberty. Dr. Paul has simply chosen the vehicle of his congressional office as well as a couple of presidential campaigns for this purpose.[/quote]

Yeah I Know, what a waste. When he could have been delivering babies.