Yes, we’ll be greatly reducing our military’s mission. Our financial situation dictates as much. But no, we won’t be disbanding the military, or completely disconnect from all allies. Let’s stick to the practical and realistic.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If every government were economically sustainable there would be no need for militarism [/quote]
If I shit diamonds and skittles I’d be rich and never go hungry.
[/quote]
So you agree that it’s impossible for government to be economically sustainable. Great. Half the battle has been won.[/quote]
That’s not what I said. What does “every” mean on your planet?[/quote]
So you believe it is possible for some but not all to be sustainable. One might wonder how it would be possible at all for even one government to be sustainable then.
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
The Soviet Union right before the fall is your argument? NATO was created in the 40’s to combat the Soviets. So Russia is more powerful that the Soviet Union right before they fell, how about the 40 some odd years before then?
Again, how does this deterrence benefit the US?
[/quote]
I don’t know what to say to this. It’s like someone telling you in the middle of a game of chess that they want to take all their own pieces off the board. Geopolitical, strategic and economic logic dictates that if the most powerful nation on earth and leader of the free world withdraws from the only ‘collective defence’ pact against Russia, then Russia will be in a ‘better position’ so to speak. And the chances of Russian acts of belligerence increase. Surely?
Good…
Not so good. In fact wrong.
Yes, I would imagine it would…
I see…well that explains a lot.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
The Soviet Union right before the fall is your argument? NATO was created in the 40’s to combat the Soviets. So Russia is more powerful that the Soviet Union right before they fell, how about the 40 some odd years before then?
Again, how does this deterrence benefit the US?
[/quote]
I don’t know what to say to this. It’s like someone telling you in the middle of a game of chess that they want to take all their own pieces off the board. Geopolitical, strategic and economic logic dictates that if the most powerful nation on earth and leader of the free world withdraws from the only ‘collective defence’ pact against Russia, then Russia will be in a ‘better position’ so to speak. And the chances of Russian acts of belligerence increase. Surely?
Good…
Not so good. In fact wrong.
Yes, I would imagine it would…
I see…well that explains a lot.[/quote]
Ok so US involvement in Libya for example is helping our country out then?
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
Ok so US involvement in Libya for example is helping our country out then?
[/quote]
No. US support for Libyan rebels was a mistake. US involvement in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen however is not a mistake.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
Ok so US involvement in Libya for example is helping our country out then?
[/quote]
No. US support for Libyan rebels was a mistake. US involvement in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen however is not a mistake.[/quote]
That’s my point. US should be able to pick where it wants to be involved and weigh the political, economic and military risks involved. Being part of NATO can drag them into other “mistakes”.
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
Ok so US involvement in Libya for example is helping our country out then?
[/quote]
No. US support for Libyan rebels was a mistake. US involvement in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen however is not a mistake.[/quote]
That’s my point. US should be able to pick where it wants to be involved and weigh the political, economic and military risks involved. Being part of NATO can drag them into other “mistakes”.[/quote]
You weren’t drawn in by a member state being attacked which was your point. In fact article V of the North Atlantic Treaty has only been invoked once and that was in response to the 9/11 attacks on US soil.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
Ok so US involvement in Libya for example is helping our country out then?
[/quote]
No. US support for Libyan rebels was a mistake. US involvement in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen however is not a mistake.[/quote]
That’s my point. US should be able to pick where it wants to be involved and weigh the political, economic and military risks involved. Being part of NATO can drag them into other “mistakes”.[/quote]
You weren’t drawn in by a member state being attacked which was your point. In fact article V of the North Atlantic Treaty has only been invoked once and that was in response to the 9/11 attacks on US soil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Assist[/quote]
I didn’t say we were. The US entered that more as a response to a UN resolution (I’m not going to argue on here whether the action was legal or not without congressional approval). What I’m saying is if a NATO country were to be attacked by Iran for example, we would have to go to war with Iran. It think this would be a big mistake for the US but under the treaty they would be obligated to enter into war with Iran. This would be a mistake the US could be drawn into due to being a part of NATO.
However, reading over what I just wrote, you are correct. We are not in Libya at the behest of NATO. However, I still don’t feel that the organization has much of a point. I see what you are saying that the balance is necessary, I think we both just have radically different views on how much a threat Russia is and therein lies the crux of our disagreement on this issue.
Russia and North Korea
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Russia and North Korea[/quote]
Haha, I will agree with you on that.
Eeeek, a mouse!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think at this point in time I might just vote for Obama.[/quote]
Please excuse the fun I had editing your comment. I could not resist!
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think at this point in time I might just vote for Obama.[/quote]
Please excuse the fun I had editing your comment. I could not resist! [/quote]
Ha…I don’t mind. It felt pretty odd saying that I would vote for Obama over Paul. But as I also said, I’d probably stay home. Good thing Paul does not stand a snow balls chance in hell of getting the republican nomination.
PHEW!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Foreign affairs is where Paul really proves to be off his rocker. [/quote]
You keep saying that but it is you and anyone else that loves murdering foreigners that you don’t even know are the ones not only off your rocker but completely fucking evil.
Paul is the only moral choice.[/quote]
You’re spending too much time here on T Nation my friend. Do a little reading on how Thomas Jefferson took care of the Barbary pirates. A country (and country) MUST defend its self interests. Every country does and the US should as well. Paul supporters are young and naive. I’ll be kind and leave it at that for now because I like most of you guys.[/quote]
Ww aren’t defending “our interests”. We are defending corporate interests and simultanoeusly breeding hatred for our country. Paul is the only one who talks about this even though the others know it’s true.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Foreign affairs is where Paul really proves to be off his rocker. [/quote]
You keep saying that but it is you and anyone else that loves murdering foreigners that you don’t even know are the ones not only off your rocker but completely fucking evil.
Paul is the only moral choice.[/quote]
You’re spending too much time here on T Nation my friend. Do a little reading on how Thomas Jefferson took care of the Barbary pirates. A country (and country) MUST defend its self interests. Every country does and the US should as well. Paul supporters are young and naive. I’ll be kind and leave it at that for now because I like most of you guys.[/quote]
Ww aren’t defending “our interests”. We are defending corporate interests and simultanoeusly breeding hatred for our country. Paul is the only one who talks about this even though the others know it’s true.[/quote]
F’ing A RIGHT MAN!! And you also forgot to say…ready? THE CONSTITUTION!
Oh (face palm) and down with corporate America!..I apologize for forgetting that one. How dare those dirty bastards employ millions of people–SHEESH! GO PAUL!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Foreign affairs is where Paul really proves to be off his rocker. [/quote]
You keep saying that but it is you and anyone else that loves murdering foreigners that you don’t even know are the ones not only off your rocker but completely fucking evil.
Paul is the only moral choice.[/quote]
You’re spending too much time here on T Nation my friend. Do a little reading on how Thomas Jefferson took care of the Barbary pirates. A country (and country) MUST defend its self interests. Every country does and the US should as well. Paul supporters are young and naive. I’ll be kind and leave it at that for now because I like most of you guys.[/quote]
Ww aren’t defending “our interests”. We are defending corporate interests and simultanoeusly breeding hatred for our country. Paul is the only one who talks about this even though the others know it’s true.[/quote]
F’ing A RIGHT MAN!! And you also forgot to say…ready? THE CONSTITUTION!
Oh (face palm) and down with corporate America!..I apologize for forgetting that one. How dare those dirty bastards employ millions of people–SHEESH! GO PAUL!
[/quote]
Last I checked they have been laying off workers in droves and moving overseas so they can pocket more money. Where are all the jobs from the Bush tax cuts?
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Foreign affairs is where Paul really proves to be off his rocker. [/quote]
You keep saying that but it is you and anyone else that loves murdering foreigners that you don’t even know are the ones not only off your rocker but completely fucking evil.
Paul is the only moral choice.[/quote]
You’re spending too much time here on T Nation my friend. Do a little reading on how Thomas Jefferson took care of the Barbary pirates. A country (and country) MUST defend its self interests. Every country does and the US should as well. Paul supporters are young and naive. I’ll be kind and leave it at that for now because I like most of you guys.[/quote]
Ww aren’t defending “our interests”. We are defending corporate interests and simultanoeusly breeding hatred for our country. Paul is the only one who talks about this even though the others know it’s true.[/quote]
F’ing A RIGHT MAN!! And you also forgot to say…ready? THE CONSTITUTION!
Oh (face palm) and down with corporate America!..I apologize for forgetting that one. How dare those dirty bastards employ millions of people–SHEESH! GO PAUL!
[/quote]
Last I checked they have been laying off workers in droves and moving overseas so they can pocket more money. Where are all the jobs from the Bush tax cuts?
[/quote]
Lets say you had a business and money to invest.
Now, take a long hard look at the Obama administration.
So tell me, how sure are you that you know what taxes you will pay next year, whether you need to pay for health insurance for your employees or not, if the EPA will churn out mandates regarding CO2 and what they will look like…
In other words, Mexico has less regime uncertainty than the US.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Foreign affairs is where Paul really proves to be off his rocker. [/quote]
You keep saying that but it is you and anyone else that loves murdering foreigners that you don’t even know are the ones not only off your rocker but completely fucking evil.
Paul is the only moral choice.[/quote]
You’re spending too much time here on T Nation my friend. Do a little reading on how Thomas Jefferson took care of the Barbary pirates. A country (and country) MUST defend its self interests. Every country does and the US should as well. Paul supporters are young and naive. I’ll be kind and leave it at that for now because I like most of you guys.[/quote]
Ww aren’t defending “our interests”. We are defending corporate interests and simultanoeusly breeding hatred for our country. Paul is the only one who talks about this even though the others know it’s true.[/quote]
F’ing A RIGHT MAN!! And you also forgot to say…ready? THE CONSTITUTION!
Oh (face palm) and down with corporate America!..I apologize for forgetting that one. How dare those dirty bastards employ millions of people–SHEESH! GO PAUL!
[/quote]
Last I checked they have been laying off workers in droves and moving overseas so they can pocket more money. Where are all the jobs from the Bush tax cuts?
[/quote]
Last I checked they still employed millions. And also last I checked we were in a recession which Obama will most assuredly keep us in with his big government policies.