[quote]hmm87 wrote:
You might want to include the rest of that quote where is states that non violence is infinitely superior.[/quote]
I disagree that I might want to do that. If I had done that I wouldn’t have been able to include my kewl graphic of Gandhi as Rambo with an M60 machine gun.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 22:36
Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of Christians today and historically aren’t pacifists. Quakers and a few other fringe sects and that’s about it.[/quote]
I was gonna post that, but figured I’d let a Christian do it. :)[/quote]
In addition to that is the story of the cleansing of the temple.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace but is no pacifist.
[/quote]
God on earth,ie Jesus disciplining evildoers,is very different to you and me. It is never our role. Confusion
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Matthew 5:44
Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.�?�¢??
[/quote]
Again, operative word is "revenge".
That’s why context is important. The previous sentence makes clear it’s talking about “revenge”. It follows on directly from that. Blood feuds were extremely common in the ME(still are) and that is what he’s talking about.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
But I won’t do what has pretty much become your main raison d’etre on PWI[/quote]
I’d say we do roughly the same thing, from different angles, perhaps, but with similar tactics, and with similar aims. And on this thread, we’re supposed to be on the same side, or so I thought.
[quote]confusion wrote:
I figure this is a call out,but I like to keep it real. Cool.[/quote]
I’m not calling you out. I challenging your assertion. There is nothing personal here.
Why don’t you think Christians should defend themselves? What about accepting Christ as your lord and savior suddenly means you can’t survive?
What if it was a bear attack?
None of those are assault rifles. Assault rifles are select fire, which would require it be made before 1986, and you paying the tax stamp. (It’s Mossberg, btw.) Unless, I guess, the SKS was select fire, but as far as I know, select fire SKS is about as common as a pair of hot lesbians that want to use you for your dick in a 3 way. To which I would expect you to have to pay a lot more than $50 for.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Matthew 5:44
Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.�??�?�¢??
[/quote]
Again, operative word is "revenge".
You may be right.
However, what’s often missing in the discussion about this particular verse is the implication that after the second cheek-turning you’re good-to-go with some good ol’ fashioned self-defendin’ ass-whippin.'[/quote]
nothing of the kind is implied and you know that.
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 22:36
Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of Christians today and historically aren’t pacifists. Quakers and a few other fringe sects and that’s about it.[/quote]
I was gonna post that, but figured I’d let a Christian do it. :)[/quote]
In addition to that is the story of the cleansing of the temple.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace but is no pacifist.
[/quote]
God on earth,ie Jesus disciplining evildoers,is very different to you and me. It is never our role. Confusion
[/quote]
Self defence is not “disciplining” someone. My previous post demonstrates clearly that you are misinterpreting the bible(in the same way the Quakers do).
[quote]pushharder wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look what ol’ kneedragger dun dun.[/quote]
Where is ol’ kneedragger, anyway? This isn’t the first time he’s skedaddled after stirring up a shitstorm.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Your “religion,” as it were, is an old one. You do know that?
[/quote]
Oldest one there is, I’d say.[/quote]
Well, now I need to know…
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I figure this is a call out,but I like to keep it real. Cool. I retract what I said about christians and the gun lobby. Reason? I feel the gun lobby has a large interest in having guns for self defense,I don’t think christians should be involved in that type of thing,however,I also know that there is more to the gun lobby than just that,ie,hunting shooting,etc. Ok? Thanks.[/quote]
Ok, first I would like to point out that even if what you think of christians is true (I don’t believe it is anywhere close to true, but lets agree to that for a moment), then simply because a christian refuses to own or use a gun for self defense doesn’t mean that they must needs be against other NON believing people being able to use guns for self defense or protection from tyranny. So on that level I would say you are wrong to say “christians should not be involved in that type of thing”, even granting your premise.
Second, I don’t find any evidence for what you say is a prohibition from self-protection. None. And at the very most I would say that if a person’s individual conscience does not allow them to do so, then fine. But I do not find it a command or prohibition.[/quote]
A couple scriptures:
�¢?? If someone has done you wrong, do not repay him with a wrong. Try to do what everyone considers to be good. Do everything possible on your part to live in peace with everybody. Never take revenge, instead let God�¢??s anger do it. If your enemies are hungry, feed them. Do not let evil defeat you; instead, conquer evil with good.�¢??
“Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.”
Colossians 3:15
�¢??Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.�¢??
Matthew 5:44
Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.�¢??
Matthew 5:39
�¢??Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing�¢?�¦.�¢??
1 Peter 3:9
There is nowhere demonstrated in the new testament that is acceptable to do violence. Nor to disregard these scriptures.Confusion[/quote]
I guarantee someone will say you’re taking these out of context
[/quote]
Self defense isn’t a wrong or evil, it isn’t revenge and it certainly can be the only way to peace.
He didn’t take those out of context. He doesn’t understand what self defense is.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I figure this is a call out,but I like to keep it real. Cool.[/quote]
I’m not calling you out. I challenging your assertion. There is nothing personal here.
Why don’t you think Christians should defend themselves? What about accepting Christ as your lord and savior suddenly means you can’t survive?
What if it was a bear attack?
None of those are assault rifles. Assault rifles are select fire, which would require it be made before 1986, and you paying the tax stamp. (It’s Mossberg, btw.) Unless, I guess, the SKS was select fire, but as far as I know, select fire SKS is about as common as a pair of hot lesbians that want to use you for your dick in a 3 way. To which I would expect you to have to pay a lot more than $50 for. [/quote]
Plus he says he’s in Australia.
I call bullshit on either the guns or the location.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
The second sentence seems awfully close to don’t defend yourself and take your beating like a man.
[/quote]
Nah, it is revenge. It doesn’t say “don’t prevent him from striking you, in order to turn the other cheek.”
It basically says in rap slang “MofO got the drop on you? Let him hot you again. Because you da fool who let him at you in the first place.”
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
A couple scriptures:
�¢?? If someone has done you wrong, do not repay him with a wrong.
[/quote]
Self defence is not “wrong”.
Operative word: revenge. Self defence is not “revenge.” It’s what people instinctively do to protect themselves and others from harm. Preventing harm is “good.”
Does not mean, it is forbidden to defend yourself from violent attack.
Nothing about self defence being wrong.
Again, operative word is "revenge".
Self defence is not “repaying with evil.” It is not “evil” to defend yourself.
SM, I reslect your mind,but your response doesn’t cut it. I stated boldly that many Christians do not do what the Bible teaches and I would prove it with scripture,so,yes my opinion is different than many Christians,and my proofs are the Bible. I have had no scripture quoted to me that in any way indicates violence is ok. And there are more,like the one about being wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Its the Bible saying Christians should live like. that these are not my ideas.Confusion
[quote]confusion wrote:
do we really know what this means?
[/quote]
At the very least I know what it doesn’t mean. There is nothing in the NT that can be correctly interpreted as meaning Jesus advocated radical pacifism to the point of denouncing self defence as sinful.
[quote]
His disciples said look,here we have two swords and He said,it is enough.[/quote]
Enough to eat there dinner with? A sword is weapon. Its sole purpose combat. And Jesus told his disciples to acquire said weapons at any expense in order to arm themselves.
Two is enough? That can be interpreted a number of ways. However it’s certainly not an endorsement of this radical pacifism ideology.