[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Push,
Is Patterns of Evidence: Exodus. a limited release? I’m having a hard time finding information on it. [/quote]
http://www.patternsofevidence.com/en/
The truth is out there, Marine.
Now if that doesn’t confuse the hell out of Push, nothing will. :)[/quote]
Lol…
I did see the website. Looks like I’ll have to get the book or DVD.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
What really struck me was viewing this film on the heel’s of reading Varq’s account of why he fell away from his faith, namely the mountains of purported “scientific and archeological evidence” that was just so overwhelming that a true thinking man really has no choice but to kick the Scripture to the curb and make up your own ideas about God, faith and the Bible.
See what you can do to watch it.[/quote]
I will be especially interested to see whether the movie showcases any verifiable evidence for the historicity of Moses, the ten plagues, the parting of the sea, and the divine authorship of the Commandments.
If not, it is simply partial corroboration of one of the stories in the oral history of one Bronze Age Middle Eastern tribe.
But I will withhold judgement until actually watching the film, with, shall we say, a skeptically open mind. :)[/quote]
By the way, just to toss this out there – there is an alternative interpretation (not saying I do or don’t believe it) to the parting of the Red Sea that allows a not so spectacular miracle as what we remember from the flannelgraph days, i.e., the Reed Sea, a swampy area of the Nile delta was temporarily dried and then flooded. Do you know of what I’m referring?
[/quote]
Yes. I mentioned earlier in my post to SexMachine that I had written a paper in college about a hypothetical natural explanation of the exodus. Indeed, I did mention the Sea of Reeds (Yam Suph), but hypothesised that the rapid draining and then sudden flooding of the Sea was due to a tsunami following a volcanic eruption (the same one that caused the 10 plagues).
Mt. Thera was the most cataclysmic volcanic eruption in human history, dwarfing the eruptions of Tambora and Krakatoa.
The volcano, now called Santorini, is known for spewing various ejecta, including red mud, which may have surged across the Mediterranean and up the Nile (the Plague of Blood), boulders (the Plague of Hail), volcanic ash which causes skin irritations (the Plague of Boils and Sores) and could have blotted out the sky for days (the Plague of Darkness). The surge of red muddy saltwater would have forced frogs out of the river and into the city (Plague of Frogs), where they would have died and rotted, attracting flies and lice (Plagues of Flies and Lice), which would have spread disease among the livestock (the plague of the Death of Livestock), inducing the Egyptians to make a huge human and animal sacrifice to propitiate the gods (the Plague of the Death of the Firstborn), which the Hebrews felt they needed to take no part in, so they sacrificed a lamb, ate their flatbread and bitter herbs, and smeared blood on their door lintels with a hyssop branch, then looted the city and ran off while the Egyptians were mourning their dead firstborn and cowering in their houses.
Not that I am saying this is what happened, but it’s what could have happened.
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting,so collateral damage shouldn’t be an issue[/quote]
Should they just lie down and die? [/quote]
Jesus did[/quote]
That’s specifically what he was sent to do.[/quote]
I thought he was also setting an example[/quote]
An example to aspire to absolutely, but not to necessarily emulate. I don’t know anyone that can raise from the dead and ascend to heaven on their own accord. Do you?[/quote]
of course not. I think it was an example of non violence. worked for Gandhi.[/quote]
I’m happy it worked out for Jesus and Gandhi. If someone breaks in my house and threatens my wife and I I’d rather ask for forgiveness than play the pacifist. If that makes me a bad Christian than I guess one day I’ll have some splanin to do. [/quote]
study the scripture more friend. If you intentionally break Gods wishes,or you hide your head in the sand about what they are,you are taking your very salvation in your hands. “I will kill that bastard and then ask God to forgive me…”,just as an example,is an awefully big chance to take when you are standing before the judgement seat of Christ to be judged according to things done in the flesh. Just my thoughts,no criticism intended. Many people don’t trully know what the new testament teaches
[/quote]
You’re off your rocker, friend.
“I will kill that bastard and then ask God to forgive me…” isn’t even remotely what I said…
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Ah, but sophia(wisdom) trumps knowledge. Interesting that religious folk seem to be more imbued with the former in most instances.[/quote]
More accurate to say that sophia is built on the foundation of gnosis.[/quote]
Some wisdom is intuitive and that’s the kind of which religious folk seem to have a great deal more. At least, in general.[/quote]
Well, according to Push I am religious too, and I’ve just proved it by my last couple long posts, so I will accept the compliment. :)[/quote]
According to Push, huh? Any objective observer would come to that conclusion. It’s an honest, accurate one. Surely you don’t disagree, no?[/quote]
Boy, you have to be belligerent even when I agree with you, don’t you. 
Quit nitpicking my insignificant posts and respond to the two long ones I posted.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
and many are involved in the gun lobby. This doesn’t line up…[/quote]
So… Christians can’t defend themselves, hunt, exercise their rights or shoot for sport now?
Since when?
[/quote]
Hunting and shooting for sport,of course. [/quote]
But not for self defense?
Great, I’m glad. Thankfully, the very Christians (for the most part) that penned the phrase that protects our right to own guns, disagreed with you.
,[quote]I have owned guns including assault rifles.[/quote]
How long did the tax stamp take?
How much was the rifle?
[quote] God is YOUR defender,you can have no better. Now,maybe if you don’t believe God can/will protect you,you can have a gun hidden on your Person somewhere. The armour that God provides you with withstand ALL the firey darts of the wicked,includes one weapon,“the sword of the Spirit,which is the word of God”. Confusion
[/quote]
None of this addressed why, to you, a Christian that supports the “gun lobby” is in your words not “lining up”.
[/quote]
I figure this is a call out,but I like to keep it real. Cool. I retract what I said about christians and the gun lobby. Reason? I feel the gun lobby has a large interest in having guns for self defense,I don’t think christians should be involved in that type of thing,however,I also know that there is more to the gun lobby than just that,ie,hunting shooting,etc. Ok? Thanks.I bought a pre ban sks,with a collapsible stock from my cousin in 1999 for $50. I had 2,20 round plastic detachable clips. I also owned a mausberg model 500 bull pup,a glock 19 and an 8 mm mauser rifle. You will find that Confusion is a very different animal to your usual athiest haters. I’m no hater. I’m a lover:) Confusion
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting,so collateral damage shouldn’t be an issue[/quote]
Should they just lie down and die? [/quote]
Jesus did[/quote]
That’s specifically what he was sent to do.[/quote]
I thought he was also setting an example[/quote]
An example to aspire to absolutely, but not to necessarily emulate. I don’t know anyone that can raise from the dead and ascend to heaven on their own accord. Do you?[/quote]
of course not. I think it was an example of non violence. worked for Gandhi.[/quote]
I’m happy it worked out for Jesus and Gandhi. If someone breaks in my house and threatens my wife and I I’d rather ask for forgiveness than play the pacifist. If that makes me a bad Christian than I guess one day I’ll have some splanin to do. [/quote]
study the scripture more friend. If you intentionally break Gods wishes,or you hide your head in the sand about what they are,you are taking your very salvation in your hands. “I will kill that bastard and then ask God to forgive me…”,just as an example,is an awefully big chance to take when you are standing before the judgement seat of Christ to be judged according to things done in the flesh. Just my thoughts,no criticism intended. Many people don’t trully know what the new testament teaches
[/quote]
You’re off your rocker, friend.
“I will kill that bastard and then ask God to forgive me…” isn’t even remotely what I said…[/quote]
glad to hear that. Honest apologies if I offended you. I was making an example and didn’t express that clearly enuf
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
Thanks for the response. I’m not necessarily pro abortion. No matter my situation I would want the child to be born and would do my best as a father to raise it. But i think others should have a choice. If you believe in god i don’t think it’s your job to judge. I think my biggest reason for allowing abortion is that if you make it illegal people will find other means of getting it done.
In the case of war i don’t think collateral damage is really taken much into consideration. it really isn’t a matter of “if” there will be collateral damage. There will always be collateral damage and those life are chosen to be aborted regardless of age. So the decision to murder innocent people is accepted, whether it’s justified all depends on which side your on.
And i agree abortion is targeting of only innocent lives.
[/quote]
Yeah, I get it and a lot of people feel the way you do. “It’s not for me personally, but I don’t want to stop others…”.
I don’t understand this line of reasoning for the following reason. If you understand what the process is and what it does, in other words people deliberately, willfully terminating a human life and you believe in general that such type of killing is wrong, how can you consciously allow it, in the society you live in and are force to interact with? In other words, if you against humans killing each other, and abortion is killing another human, how can you support somebody else doing that?
This isn’t a “My business” and “your business” issue. It’s a life and death issue. There is no difference between go next door and shooting your neighbor and killing a child en utero save for the method and location. The result is the same, a human life is taken.
It’s not an issue of personal rights or what a person wants to do with their own body. If they want to cut their finger off and ram it up their own ass, I don’t care. But I do care if people kill their own children. I do care that Casey Anthony killed her own baby. It’s not my baby, their family is none of my business until your start killing off members of your family. That becomes everybody’s business. In the same way, killing your own child whether in the uterus or in the crib is the same thing. And that’s why I don’t understand the “I wouldn’t do it myself, but it’s none of my business if somebody else does.”
If abortion kills a human life, and we are against killing human lives then it should not be allowed, regardless of whether people will do it anyway. For every law on a book there is a person breaking that law. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have the laws.
We cannot totally stop people from having abortions anymore than we can stop any other type of murder. People murder anyway, people will have abortions anyway, hopefully not as many. Because then as a society as a country we will have recognized clearly, that the truth is, abortion is murder, murder is morally wrong and we live in a society that recognizes and abides by basic objective moral constructs, in order to have a free functioning society where one’s freedom stops only on the encroachment of another’s.
It’s not judgement that I seek. I seek the recognition of the truth, seeing this action for what it really is. I recognize that many of those who have had abortions, are not fully understanding what they are doing because the law is murky and they don’t know the truth.
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting…
[/quote]
What? What makes you say that? Are you a Quaker?[/quote]
No,I believe the new testament clearly teaches non violence. I don’t believe we can pick and choose parts of the bible,ignoring some things,disobeying others,and still say we are christians. Its a serious thing after all[/quote]
You’re not a Christian, don’t believe in Christianity but are qualified to teach it, huh?
[/quote]
I will show you using the scriptures that several things Christians believe are not what the scripture teaches. I am coming onto your turf in this forum and debate using your reference for how to live,the scriptures. Its up to you…I am not coming from a bad place here. Confusion
[/quote]
This would be and enormously bad idea. If there is one thing you don’t want to attempt to do, is act on this proposal of yours.
[quote]confusion wrote:
I will show you using the scriptures that several things Christians believe are not what the scripture teaches. I am coming onto your turf in this forum and debate using your reference for how to live,the scriptures. Its up to you…I am not coming from a bad place here. Confusion
[/quote]
This is your first PWI thread, isn’t it?
[quote]pat wrote:
It’s not judgement that I seek. I seek the recognition of the truth, seeing this action for what it really is. I recognize that many of those who have had abortions, are not fully understanding what they are doing because the law is murky and they don’t know the truth. [/quote]
Wait, what?
You’d like to see Roe v Wade overturned, so it is judgement that you seek, isn’t it?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I will show you using the scriptures that several things Christians believe are not what the scripture teaches. I am coming onto your turf in this forum and debate using your reference for how to live,the scriptures. Its up to you…I am not coming from a bad place here. Confusion
[/quote]
This is your first PWI thread, isn’t it?[/quote]
yes
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting,so collateral damage shouldn’t be an issue[/quote]
Should they just lie down and die? [/quote]
Jesus did[/quote]
That’s specifically what he was sent to do.[/quote]
I thought he was also setting an example[/quote]
An example to aspire to absolutely, but not to necessarily emulate. I don’t know anyone that can raise from the dead and ascend to heaven on their own accord. Do you?[/quote]
of course not. I think it was an example of non violence. worked for Gandhi.[/quote]
Gandi was a Christian in your history books?[/quote]
I used him as an example of non violence being successful.
[quote]confusion wrote:
glad to hear that. Honest apologies if I offended you. I was making an example and didn’t express that clearly enuf[/quote]
I wasn’t offended; however, you were definitely off base as to what I was saying. No apology need (unless you try and convert me to HITT, lol (joking))
In your opinion should Christian’s never defend themselves? What scripture are you basing this on?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Your “religion,” as it were, is an old one. You do know that?
[/quote]
Oldest one there is, I’d say.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting,so collateral damage shouldn’t be an issue[/quote]
Should they just lie down and die? [/quote]
Jesus did[/quote]
That’s specifically what he was sent to do.[/quote]
I thought he was also setting an example[/quote]
An example that was and always has been followed by many of his believers.
But it doesn’t track well with your narrative when one is honest. Jesus also turned the water into wine; should all believers do that (don’t answer that, LOL)?
[/quote]
lol that answer is obvious
[quote]pushharder wrote:
You do realize I could taunt the living hell out of your ethos, don’t you? I could do EXACTLY what you’ve done for years here to Christianity. I could shred you like lettuce, my friend. I could belittle you to far greater effect than your best efforts in the other direction.
[/quote]
Do your worst. My god is immune to your taunts.
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting,so collateral damage shouldn’t be an issue[/quote]
Should they just lie down and die? [/quote]
Jesus did[/quote]
That’s specifically what he was sent to do.[/quote]
I thought he was also setting an example[/quote]
An example to aspire to absolutely, but not to necessarily emulate. I don’t know anyone that can raise from the dead and ascend to heaven on their own accord. Do you?[/quote]
of course not. I think it was an example of non violence. worked for Gandhi.[/quote]
Gandi was a Christian in your history books?[/quote]
I used him as an example of non violence being successful. [/quote]
He wasn’t successful. Britain just decided to pack up and leave the colonies to the natives. The only reason they stayed in India as long as they did was due to the Japanese being on the doorstep in Burma. Britain was protecting India and fighting for its own survival while Gandhi was inciting anti-British sentient and downplaying the Japanese threat and so on. Gandhi was a scumbag who slept with his grand daughter. I have no idea why people think he’s so great.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
But it doesn’t track well with your narrative when one is honest. Jesus also turned the water into wine; should all believers do that (don’t answer that, LOL)?[/quote]
I can turn wine into water.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
Thanks for the response. I’m not necessarily pro abortion. No matter my situation I would want the child to be born and would do my best as a father to raise it. But i think others should have a choice. If you believe in god i don’t think it’s your job to judge. I think my biggest reason for allowing abortion is that if you make it illegal people will find other means of getting it done.
In the case of war i don’t think collateral damage is really taken much into consideration. it really isn’t a matter of “if” there will be collateral damage. There will always be collateral damage and those life are chosen to be aborted regardless of age. So the decision to murder innocent people is accepted, whether it’s justified all depends on which side your on.
And i agree abortion is targeting of only innocent lives.
[/quote]
Yeah, I get it and a lot of people feel the way you do. “It’s not for me personally, but I don’t want to stop others…”.
I don’t understand this line of reasoning for the following reason. If you understand what the process is and what it does, in other words people deliberately, willfully terminating a human life and you believe in general that such type of killing is wrong, how can you consciously allow it, in the society you live in and are force to interact with? In other words, if you against humans killing each other, and abortion is killing another human, how can you support somebody else doing that?
This isn’t a “My business” and “your business” issue. It’s a life and death issue.
…
[/quote]
Excellent post
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]hmm87 wrote:
I think my biggest reason for allowing abortion is that if you make it illegal people will find other means of getting it done.
[/quote]
I’ve always loved this one ^.
[/quote]
Well, there are other tried-and-true methods, no doubt about it.
