Roe v. Wade: 42 Years in the Past

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
701

[quote]pushharder wrote:
OK, I just returned from the theater after watching the documentary, Patterns of Evidence: Exodus.

Powerful film. Sheer coincidence that I saw it tonight. Never heard of it before 5pm.

Was going to start its own thread but decided to post here due to the last several pages of haggling about evidence, Bible stories, myths, science, scientism, falling away from one’s faith, looking for faith, etc.

It’s about the authenticity of the Exodus story in the Bible and the implications for Judaism and Christianity were that authenticity found wanting.

There are a few of you here like usmc, Beans, SM, Aragorn, and some others who wouldn’t be skeered to view a film that successfully challenges a lot of conventional archeological thinking. For the record I have no faith whatsoever that the Taunters will get anywhere close to this film; to do so would give them the cooties, I’m sure.

The group discussion after the documentary sounded out some things I’ve mentioned over and over again here on PWI about the Bible and faith.

What really struck me was viewing this film on the heel’s of reading Varq’s account of why he fell away from his faith, namely the mountains of purported “scientific and archeological evidence” that was just so overwhelming that a true thinking man really has no choice but to kick the Scripture to the curb and make up your own ideas about God, faith and the Bible.

See what you can do to watch it.[/quote]

Just saw the trailer for this film.

I promise you, Push, that I will do what I can to watch it.

702

Push,

Is Patterns of Evidence: Exodus. a limited release? I’m having a hard time finding information on it.

703

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

I don’t disagree with it. But it seems to implicate that a human embryo is a precursor to a human being, where in fact ‘embryo’ is merely a stage of human developement of a human being. Is that what you mean?[/quote]

Pat, I hope you haven’t forgotten which side I’m on. That would hurt my feelings.

I do not mean to “implicate”, or even to imply, that an embryo is a “precursor” to a “human being”. That would be like saying that an infant is a “precursor” to a “human being”, or a child is a “precursor” to a “human being”. Of course they are all stages of human development.

I prefer the term “human”, however, to “human being”. I don’t generally say “dog being” or “bird being” or even “chimpanzee being”, even though they are all living creatures, i.e. “beings”.

The other problem I have with the word “being” (and this is only a little bit facetious) is that it “implicates” (sorry, implies) that no further development is taking place. Therefore an embryo, a fetus, and an infant and a child are all different stages in human development, and as such they might more accurately be described as “human becomings” rather than “human beings”.[/quote]

Sorry Varq. I was being nit picky obviously. Like looking at it from the other side trying to find a loop hole.

I understand what your saying about ‘being’. When I am using it in conjunction or alone, I mean it in the more generic sense of ‘entity’. Something that exists, but does not need to be defined specifically to make a point. I have used it for living and metaphysical non-living entities in the past. I would describe it as an entity with a presence.

704

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote] Pat wrote:

You have a right to be an immoral person, just own it.

[/quote]

This guy claims that morality and even human life are “constructs” and don’t actually exist. He’s a nihilist and moral reprobate.[/quote]

lmao, this.

His nonsense posts remind me of the scene from Blow, I’ll see if I can find it.

Yup, there it is. lol[/quote]

Love that movie.

705

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

You don’t believe in 99.9 percent of all religions and moral absolutist guidelines, I merely believe in one less than you.
[/quote]

Annnnnd your slip, it finally shows.

I know what your other screen name is. Pretty disappointed too. [/quote]

What another poster used the very famous athiest statement by one of the most famous athiests alive? Must be the same poster!!!

Now if I took everyone who claimed Noah’s ark was real 5 of the posters in this thread would be one very devout christian.[/quote]

It’s okay man. If I had as fucked up a world view as you, and couldn’t back up anything I said without nut hugging a bunch of atheist motivational speakers, I wouldn’t post it under my original screen name either.

It’ll stay between us, no worries. [/quote]

Righttttttt.

Cool brah. [/quote]

Oh, if we are posting motivational posters, then…

706

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

You don’t believe in 99.9 percent of all religions and moral absolutist guidelines, I merely believe in one less than you.
[/quote]

Annnnnd your slip, it finally shows.

I know what your other screen name is. Pretty disappointed too. [/quote]

What another poster used the very famous athiest statement by one of the most famous athiests alive? Must be the same poster!!!

Now if I took everyone who claimed Noah’s ark was real 5 of the posters in this thread would be one very devout christian.[/quote]

It’s okay man. If I had as fucked up a world view as you, and couldn’t back up anything I said without nut hugging a bunch of atheist motivational speakers, I wouldn’t post it under my original screen name either.

It’ll stay between us, no worries. [/quote]

Righttttttt.

Cool brah. [/quote]

Nice picture. You don’t Know any of that. [/quote]

We don’t know a brain is required for consciousness? we certainly do, we can prove that, we can show how we can’t prove the soul, for example.

Ce can clearly show the mechanisms within the brain required for consciousness.

[/quote]

So, the person on the right is not a human being?

707

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]

Correct. I am not ashamed of my man-crush on Kamui, who is an atheist, but a supremely cool dude. But most are as described.

708

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Yep. The atheist account of the early Israelites based upon archeological research suggests there was no violent conquest of Canaan; that it was a peaceful transition to a revolutionary new religion.[/quote]

It’s not the atheist account, it’s the honest one. It’s the conclusion of the Jewish archaeologists commissioned by David Ben Gurion (telling them to “find the title deeds” to the land of Israel), but who ultimately failed to find any evidence of a mass Hebrew exodus from Egypt. [/quote]

You need to study up varqareeno and get right with Jesus. :)[/quote]

Ha!

Watch out, mate, I may have to have to start calling you PushMachine.

I actually wrote the above shortly before reading Push’s recommendation for the film, which sounds really intriguing. I wrote a paper in a Judaism class back in university dealing with the hypothesis that the plagues of Egypt, the exodus, and the parting of the sea could all be explained by the volcanic eruption of Mt Thera that also wiped out Minoan civilisation.

I kind of doubt that, but it is an interesting hypothesis nonetheless. So yes, I will watch the film.

Whether evidence for an exodus of Hebrews out of Egypt can also be plausibly interpreted as evidence for the supernatural events depicted in the book of Exodus is quite another matter, of course.

709

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote] Pat wrote:

You have a right to be an immoral person, just own it.

[/quote]

This guy claims that morality and even human life are “constructs” and don’t actually exist. He’s a nihilist and moral reprobate.[/quote]

Just like most of the atheists on this forum, with exceptions of course most notably Kamui.
What is striking to me, based on observation, is how he and all the others who have passed through say almost exactly the same kind of stuff, the same way and yet claim to be bound by nothing and adhere to atheism because they are freethinkers. Yet, they say and do all the same stuff as if they all scripted from the same play.
I beginning to wonder if there isn’t a secret atheist bible somewhere that they are all required to memorize like the Koran.
The irony of atheists all saying and acting the same way as each other, almost always punctuated with a great deal of anger, while claiming this ‘freethinking’ motif is not lost on me.
It may not be a religion, but it’s certainly cultish. Do you agree?[/quote]

Militant atheism is certainly cultish. It’s also really childish. It’s like an inferiority complex or something.

But yes, I agree with your post. What strikes me is they don’t seem to comprehend the enormous implications of what they’re saying - ie, that morality doesn’t exist; that it’s a “construct”. That is of course moral nihilism. Of course they always deny that they’re nihilists and they try to take the moral high ground on things after saying they don’t believe in morality. All very odd but predictable as you say.[/quote]

Having lived it, with it, and seen it from the inside out… They are the very thing they hold in so much contempt. Just so happens they wear a pair of brown slacks while those they openly mock as inferior wear a black pair of slacks.

Both sets of people are wearing pants.

Edit: typos, grammer and more typos[/quote]

As someone else said though, not all atheists are like that. But a hell of a lot are. At least 75% of atheists I’ve debated with are militant/extremists and have an inferiority complex; have to show how clever they are and how stupid everyone else is.[/quote]

Those extremist militants always invading countries, blowing up schools, launching crusades, preaching belief in unbelievable stories without evidence!

Damn nasty athiests.

Every time I turn on the news, I see agnostic rebels shelling the atheist strongholds.

(not just giving a pass to religious peoples claims is now sen as picking on their faith which is deemed beyond criticism)

[/quote]

Atheists have killed more people in the last century, outside of the theater of war, than all the wars and conflicts in all of history prior to it.
If you are playing a numbers game, your on the wrong side.

710

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I didn’t say you were “picking on” anyone or that religion is “beyond criticism”. Strawman. I said atheists are often trying to show how clever they are; how superior to people of faith. And how can you complain about wars? Morality doesn’t exist remember? It’s entirely subjective. And in many cultures war is glorified and virtuous in and of itself. That invented ethical construct is no more or less legitimate than any other right? Yes right. That’s essentially the argument you’ve made here.[/quote]

Which is another interesting point. Atheists complain about the immorality of religion while at the same time espousing that no such thing exists or that it is purely subjective which conflicts the point they are trying to make. They are more moral, but don’t believe in such a thing.

711

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

Oh don’t get me wrong I don’t care how many kids get vacumed.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Yup, this says a lot. It says a lot about him and annihilates his very own argument all at the same time.

712

[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:

Why are catholic schoolgirls always the most sexually promiscuous? Is it the repression?

[/quote]

Oh goodie. Another “fact” made up out of thin ass air.

713

[quote]pushharder wrote:
What really struck me was viewing this film on the heel’s of reading Varq’s account of why he fell away from his faith, namely the mountains of purported “scientific and archeological evidence” that was just so overwhelming that a true thinking man really has no choice but to kick the Scripture to the curb and make up your own ideas about God, faith and the Bible.

See what you can do to watch it.[/quote]

I will be especially interested to see whether the movie showcases any verifiable evidence for the historicity of Moses, the ten plagues, the parting of the sea, and the divine authorship of the Commandments.

If not, it is simply partial corroboration of one of the stories in the oral history of one Bronze Age Middle Eastern tribe.

But I will withhold judgement until actually watching the film, with, shall we say, a skeptically open mind. :slight_smile:

714

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote] pushharder wrote:

Off the rails now. Totally completely off the rails.

[/quote]

That’s why I’m not responding. I’m at the stage now where I don’t actually believe that they’re serious. I don’t believe that they actually believe this stuff. It’s a game. They’re just trying to rile people up.[/quote]

So none of what he posted is true?
[/quote]

Let’s put it this way. I am glad he’s on your side.

715

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Ha!

Watch out, mate, I may have to have to start calling you PushMachine.

I actually wrote the above shortly before reading Push’s recommendation for the film, which sounds really intriguing. I wrote a paper in a Judaism class back in university dealing with the hypothesis that the plagues of Egypt, the exodus, and the parting of the sea could all be explained by the volcanic eruption of Mt Thera that also wiped out Minoan civilisation.

[/quote]

Yes, I’ve heard of that theory before. I’ve also heard that Sodom and Gomorrah may have been destroyed by some kind of tectonic/volcanic catastrophe.

[quote]

I kind of doubt that, but it is an interesting hypothesis nonetheless. So yes, I will watch the film.

Whether evidence for an exodus of Hebrews out of Egypt can also be plausibly interpreted as evidence for the supernatural events depicted in the book of Exodus is quite another matter, of course.[/quote]

Actually, for those who know about the logistics of mass migration and the good and stores requirements for pack animals and so, well it gets a little tricky to say the least, to explain how so many people could make the journey in such time and so on. There’s a great little book called “The Logistics of the Macedonian Army” that explains how Alexander was able to logistically manage his army, pack animals, cavalry and baggage train:

If you apply the author’s formula to the Exodus and the geography of Egypt/Sinai you realise just what an enormous claim the journey alone is let alone the parting sea, sky bread and so on.

716

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
But you feel islam itself is problem as opposed to the people themselves?[/quote]

They are the same thing. Islam is Muslims, Christianity is Christians. Prove to me that one of these religions is the objective truth and I’ll weigh that religion as purely an idea. Otherwise Islam is Muslims, Christianity is Christians. And Christians win out over Muslims, generally speaking.

Here’s why (highly offensive drawing ahead):

That’s sort of a joke. The real reason lies in opinion polling. You can look that stuff up if you’re interested. Bill Maher and Sam Harris have spoken at length and well on it.[/quote]

I agree with everything you said here.[/quote]

How do you pro lifers feel about the innocents that are killed in war as collateral damage by the US. Are their murders justified for the greater outcome of the war? [/quote]

Why would you assume this? The topic is abortion, the willful targeted killing of innocent human lives. Not all of kills and death in all manners in which they happen. None of us Pro-lifers, which I proudly am, are in anyway happy about the death of innocent people. Or even the death of evil people, it’s just not the topic at hand.

The main difference between us Pro-life folk and you Pro-abortion folk, is at least we are consistent with our application.

717

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote] pushharder wrote:

Off the rails now. Totally completely off the rails.

[/quote]

That’s why I’m not responding. I’m at the stage now where I don’t actually believe that they’re serious. I don’t believe that they actually believe this stuff. It’s a game. They’re just trying to rile people up.[/quote]

So none of what he posted is true?
[/quote]

Let’s put it this way. I am glad he’s on your side. [/quote]

My side?

718

Collateral damage always seems to come up in these threads. I’ve never met a person that is okay with collateral damage. Every possible preventative action and the utmost caution should be used to minimize collateral damage as much as possible. It is not okay.

That said, the two subjects are entirely different. If we look at history we can see The U.S. military and/or NATO forces are extremely cautious and are very successful at minimizing collateral damage especially compared to past military actions. We’ve come a long way since Hiroshima.

719

I think its pretty clear that Christians should not be fighting,so collateral damage shouldn’t be an issue

720

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Yep. The atheist account of the early Israelites based upon archeological research suggests there was no violent conquest of Canaan; that it was a peaceful transition to a revolutionary new religion.[/quote]

I think you are giving these atheists WAY to much credit. As if they actually know the history, the scriptures and the nuances and in depth study it actually requires to understand the history, culture, time and faith of the time and it’s application.
Remember, your dealing with the only group who see fit to criticize, mock and ridicule a book they have never read. Oh sure, they read parts, maybe… MAYBE. But they haven’t read it, haven’t put in the time to try and understand it, certainly don’t have an open mind about it and certainly, certainly are only mining it to find stones to throw.

And we’re talking about abortion… Or has that train left the tracks?