[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
Lets remember the words of John the Baptist…“and now also the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Any tree not bringing forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.” That’s how we know a Christian,they display the fruits of the Spirit. If only people lived like that…[/quote]
So you’re going cite Scripture in places and mock it in others, huh?[/quote]
I.was mocking scripture where? I love the KJV bible. The language is awesom
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
…Not to try to humiliate or ridicule someone with different ideas that’s not even attacking you. [/quote]
80+% of your posts on this thread have been attempts to humiliate and ridicule someone with different ideas that’s not even attacking you.
How 'bout somebody goes back and lists these posts as evidence?
You make a very good point in your previous post but you of all people ain’t the one to be doing it.[/quote]
yes,please go back and point out posts I made to ridicule or humiliate people. Ty
[quote]confusion wrote:
I am curious if anyone here wants to help others find God? [/quote]
Personally? Nope and fuck nope. That’s on them, and it’s the only way it would be real.
What little I could help, all they have to do is ask, and I’ll give what I can. But end of the day, I don’t even think this is the type of area you lead a horse to water, unless that horse tells you it is thirsty.
There is a bit of that. We’ve been arguing with each other for awhile now. About the same shit, over and over, lol.
There aren’t very many regular posters here, or even semi regular that posts here, including Pitttt that I wouldn’t buy a drink, and likely even invite to sleep on my couch, if they needed it.
We’re all guilty of this now and again.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
I am curious if anyone here wants to help others find God? [/quote]
Personally? Nope and fuck nope. That’s on them, and it’s the only way it would be real.
What little I could help, all they have to do is ask, and I’ll give what I can. But end of the day, I don’t even think this is the type of area you lead a horse to water, unless that horse tells you it is thirsty.
There is a bit of that. We’ve been arguing with each other for awhile now. About the same shit, over and over, lol.
There aren’t very many regular posters here, or even semi regular that posts here, including Pitttt that I wouldn’t buy a drink, and likely even invite to sleep on my couch, if they needed it.
We’re all guilty of this now and again.
[/quote]
Thanks for the reply. if I understand correctly,there’s probably no one on this thread who is worth making an effort to help because they almost definitely are haters,so you will battle them under that premise. However,if they asked you for help you would try?
[quote]confusion wrote:
if I understand correctly,there’s probably no one on this thread who is worth making an effort to help because they almost definitely are haters,[/quote]
No, not really.
Fact of the matter is I can’t really be much help, to anyone really. So it would more properly be described as it isn’t worth it to them to come to me for help. I can’t really show them any specifics, just big, giant, generalizations. (That could very well be totally full of shit.)
And whether or not someone is a hater is irrelevant. I don’t care who believes what, as long as they are a good person. End of the day, I know what I believe, and what someone else believes doesn’t effect that. As long as they aren’t harming me (and no, stupid comments from atheists on a message board don’t harm me) I dn’t care. Different people need different things to get through the day with a smile, who am I to tell them they are wrong.
But neither of those is why I won’t seek out those to help. I won’t help because it isn’t my place, or anyone’s place. It is each individual’s place to figure out their own heart, their own soul. And if someone won’t do that, can’t do that, or refuses to embrace what they find (good or bad) it is their cross to bear not mine. Does that make me selfish? Maybe. I’m just being honest.
I’m an individual, always have been. Not big on follow the crowd, and perfectly happy NOT being told what to do. I sort of think everyone needs a little bit of that in their life, and God is one of those places where they really need to find their individual and how it works into whatever it is they believe.
I also don’t think believing is a choice. I think it is like being gay. You just do, or you just don’t. You’re either attracted to the same sex or not. You either believe or your don’t. But this is a feeling of mine still under development, and I may change that with time.
I don’t feel I battle anyone. I argue and bullshit on the internet what amounts to philosophical musings.
[quote] However,if they asked you for help you would try?
[/quote]
Anyone that isn’t a total shithead will get all the help I’m able to give if they ask. Only the truly depressed and down trodden will get it without asking. Asking allows someone to keep their pride. I don’t pity for that reason.
countingbeans,thank for taking the time to explain. I get and respect that. Thanks for being real,that’s hard to come by these days…I can relate to not being a follower! …take care and good luck in your journey. Confusion
I do believe the new testament teaches predestination,beans. It flies in the face of free choice,which I don’t believe anyway. The scriptures teach that God chooses us by his grace,nothing we have done or will do will effecf that. God has selected certain folks to be saved and others to hell fire. Its difficult to accept and doesn’t seem fair,but its mentioned several places. Concision
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:
I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[quote]tedro wrote:
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:
I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[/quote]
That certainly may be true.
My point is that one must not squelch their inner Pumbaa. In my estimation, a well adjusted person balancestheirinner Pumbaa and Timon according to the situation.
[quote]confusion wrote:
I do believe the new testament teaches predestination,beans. It flies in the face of free choice,which I don’t believe anyway. The scriptures teach that God chooses us by his grace,nothing we have done or will do will effecf that. God has selected certain folks to be saved and others to hell fire. Its difficult to accept and doesn’t seem fair,but its mentioned several places. Concision [/quote]
Confusion:
This has been a subject of Religious Debate…and probably has led to more religious splits and sects…than any one topic.
It’s also literally a debate that has gone on for Centuries (and will continue so).
It will never, ever be “settled” by what you read; but what you choose to believe.
Mufasa
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
God creates man in his own image, which is jealous (Exodus 20:5), vengeful (Deuteronomy 32:35) and wrathful (Nahum 1:2), then expects man not to be so, without even mentioning to man that it’s not okay to be so?
Oh, and Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament, hates violence? Really?
[/quote]
Hey Varq,
I don’t intend to pick on you.
I think you’ve highlighted a common misunderstanding when applying these “negative” attributes to God. This is not intended to be comprehensive.
God is jealous: God is jealous for his people, his creation. If we are God’s people, he doesn’t want to see us stray to the other gods (alcohol, drugs, sex, self-indulgence, abuse of various things such that we disconnect from God, make God a low priority)
God is vengeful, wrathful: God is also holy and just. It’s along the lines of righteousness indignation. If God created us to be holy, as God is holy, and we choose to abandon him, then God will deal with us accordingly.
Also, we’re applying human emotions to God. God is beyond the human emotions he created. We don’t have sufficient language to discuss God adequately.
Just some ideas to keep in mind. [/quote]
Oh, absolutely. I agree. God is beyond human emotions like wrath and jealousy and pettiness and cruelty and vindictiveness and prejudice and irrationality in favoritism of one group of mammals over another.
Just not the God of the Bible.
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Life requires faith, you don’t know anything. You think you do, but your just trusting a bunch of people who are scientists aren’t lying to you. You’re not working the science, you’re not working the equations, you’re not interpreting results. You’re trusting people are telling you the truth. That’s the very definition of faith.
[/quote]
The difference, of course, being that you don’t have to take the scientists’ word for it. You can always go and look at the evidence yourself, and see whether they are honestly representing the facts.
[/quote]
Possible if you’re especially gifted to be able to understand the cutting edge of every branch of science. What about the rest of us idiots? [/quote]
That’s akin to saying that common people cannot be able to understand the complexities of the law, so couldn’t possibly serve on juries.
You don’t have to be a lawyer or a judge to look at evidence and make a rational decision based on the evidence.
Is evidence sometimes misrepresented in a court of law? Of course. Are lawyers sometimes dishonest? Of course. Are jurors sometimes so stupid that they ignore the evidence in favor of the smooth words of the attorney? OF COURSE!
(Which, now that I think about it, makes our legal system as currently practiced more like religion than science.)
But the point is, in a court of law at least there is the pretense of presenting evidence, and the attempt to demonstrate the facts beyond the shadow of a doubt. And that demonstration must be peer reviewed (by a “jury of your peers”) before it is accepted as a valid theory, which we would call a “verdict”.
And if you don’t agree with the verdict you can always re-examine the evidence and call for a retrial.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Varq knows this stuff. He used to believe. [/quote]
He gave it up completely?
(Sorry for the personal question man, but PM’s don’t work lol.)[/quote]
Hell hath no fury like a former believer who feels he has been scorned in the sense that his faith was misplaced.
Now I love Varq like a brother and the next time I see him which is soon I hope I will embrace him so but if he kicks sand in the face of Christianity on this forum I will give him a good ol’ fashioned Old Testament eye for an eye whoopin’.
Now it could be argued that I should instead give him some New Testament lovin’ and by me not doing so I am the one in error. So be it.[/quote]
So, rejected the God Concept in totality or just the Bible as holy works?
[/quote]
I stopped worshipping the Bible.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
And in case you’re wondering, Beans, Varq and I don’t argue like this when we get together. We ride bikes, lift, eat out, eat in, go to the beach and ogle women.[/quote]
Damn straight. We gotta do that again soon.
[quote]tedro wrote:
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:
I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[/quote]
Heretic! Everyone knows they are pinholes in the firmament to allow the light of heaven to shine through!
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
How do you force yourself to believe something that you don’t? I can’t make myself believe in Bigfoot or ghosts. They may be out there, but I’ve seen no evidence of them. How can I make myself believe in God?[/quote]
As someone who’s life, as it pertains to religion, has been the opposite of yours, I’ll say you can’t.
You can’t force yourself not to believe either. You can pretend not to, reject it, and struggle every day with it, but it sort of is what it is.
I was raised to reject religion, reject the entire concept of God with a wild fervor, well and above the dipshit in this thread who can’t seem to actually substantiate any of his claims, and ignores the science Pat posted showing him his own ass.
I would froth at the mouth at the opportunity to mock believers.
And the funny part is, I was 32 before I could admit to myself, and 34 before I could admit to others, I believe. (I still can’t tell my mother or step-father.)
And as someone who rejects the bible as word of God, or any holy book for that matter as direct word of God (inspiration was there, but that is another post). You’re wasting your time trying to force it.
If you don’t believe, you don’t. You don’t seem to me the type who is going around trying to convert people either way, so in the end, it really doesn’t matter.
Shit, if God exists, we don’t even know if “believe” is actually required lol. It would make sense, to us, but an omnipotent? Who the hells knows…[/quote]
Beans, you’re one of my favorite posters here, and this post reconfirms to me why this is so.
I enjoyed the story of your finding faith, despite your upbringing and training to reject it. If I might ask your indulgence, here is the story of it happening the other way around.
It’s not my story, it’s the story of a beautiful young woman I was involved with for a painfully brief amount of time.
But there are enough parallels that it might as well be my story.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]tedro wrote:
[quote]pabergin wrote:
[quote]Perlenbacher15 wrote:
I recommend not doing as it is ridiculous. Claims that the earth is thousands of years old and that dinosaurs and humans lived together.
So juvenile.
[/quote]
Oh Perlenbacher, don’t be like Timon …
Pumbaa: Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there?
Timon: Pumbaa, I don’t wonder; I know.
Pumbaa: Oh. What are they?
Timon: They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing.
Pumbaa: Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away.
Timon: Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas.
Scientists need to have a little imagination. They have to look up at the sky and wonder.[/quote]
Occam’s Razor says Timon may be right.
[/quote]
Heretic! Everyone knows they are pinholes in the firmament to allow the light of heaven to shine through![/quote]
Is that from the bible?