The first time I really felt like a man was when my Grandfather died. My parents were on holiday, my sister and Grandmother were in bits so it was down to me to be the one talking with the doctors and organising things. I must have been about 17/18 at the time.
I had obviously done the drinking and shagging bit already and was living away from home at University but that responsibility was the point that I think I really took the step into the adult world.
[quote]ironmaniac508 wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
This country has less and less men than it did 50-100 years ago.There may be the same amount of males or more but far less Men.What the OP is saying is, these days the rite of passage is getting drunk and getting laid.Our country made thousands of men early in this century without really intenionally trying too.These men were made through physically demanding jobs like building the empire state building and the hoover dam.You will never see the same type of bravery these wild men had back then.Also the world wars forced males to go through a rapid change from boy to Man cast out of iron.
Most the people in this country nowadays are pussies so the rites of passage from boy to man arent gonna seem very worthy.Men should be judged on there actions and there ability to stand up for what is right not on getting drunk and banging chicks, I was doing that in juinor high and i was far from manhood.
Yeah having a physically demanding job really does toughen you out. When I was 15 me and my boss were working outside in the dead of winter and he would say it builds character. If you think about it he was right, you had to toughen up to finish the job not say my piggies are cold can I leave now. Most young adults these days have never worked a physically intensive job so they have to become men through other means. I would say any boy who dedicates themself and works hard to achieve their goal is becoming a man in a true sense.[/quote]
My first full time job was right after I dropped out of high school when I was 15, it was working as a huad carrier for a mason.My first day I mixed mud carried buckets of it up and down scaffolding, cut bricks and worked 13 hours.I made my decision about school and had to man up quick.
There is a lot of confusion on what it means to be a man today. Some would say it’s being humble yet confident, diligent, and showing leadership. I would have to agree with those statements to a certain extent. I think that some men can become to dilegent or they can misinterpret what it means to be diligent.
That’s why so many men become stuck in a dead end job that they hate. They think that it’s manly to just stick it out. I would argue that a more manly approach would be to quit your current job, lead your family and do what it takes to find a job you enjoy. Just to clarify I’m not advocating simply quiting your job without a plan but to develop a plan and then implement it is a manly thing in my opinion.
To answer your question about when a boy becomes a man today. I don’t know. I think it would be a lot easier if we had a specific right of passage. I think to some degree, the military could be considered a right of passage. College could also be considered a right of passage, although I don’t think a lot of college graduates would qualify as men.
It’s almost impossible for me to pick out a moment where I think I became a man. I could point to when my father died, I could point to when I graduated college, I could point to getting married, I could point to the birth of my son. I think that all of these events are points in my life when I could either take the manly approach to something or I could have taken the cowardly or childish approach.
When my father died I could have gone on a year long drinking binge but I decided to live in a way that would honor him, When I graduated college I could have taken some time off and lived it up but I got a job right away and started working. When I got married I could have been an absent husband, In other words I could have simply neglected my wifes feelings, needs, etc… but I didn’t I rose to the occasion. Personally, I think that’s what it means to be a man. Not just doing what I did but simply rising to the occasion and taking the honorable rout in life.
Probably a lot more than what you were looking for but I think becoming a man in our culture is a complicated thing. There have been thousands of books writen on it and I still don’t think they have come up with a difinitive answer.
[quote]D Public wrote:
I think being a man is about having the ability to handle things in life. Anything that gets thrown your way…you can handle it…A man is confident in his abilities to handle situations…
Men built this society around us…the buildings and structures…the laws…all of it was crafted at the hands of men…men who handled problems and situations which have all led to everything we see around us…
So being a man to me…is about having the confidence to handle any situation that may arise in life…
[/quote]
x2
[quote]polo77j wrote:
Rudyard Kipling - “If”
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And - which is more - you’ll be a Man my son!
I’m really surprised no one posted this before I did … y’all are slackin’[/quote]
Good post.
[quote]horsepuss wrote:
This country has less and less men than it did 50-100 years ago.There may be the same amount of males or more but far less Men.What the OP is saying is, these days the rite of passage is getting drunk and getting laid.Our country made thousands of men early in this century without really intenionally trying too.These men were made through physically demanding jobs like building the empire state building and the hoover dam.You will never see the same type of bravery these wild men had back then.Also the world wars forced males to go through a rapid change from boy to Man cast out of iron.
Most the people in this country nowadays are pussies so the rites of passage from boy to man arent gonna seem very worthy.Men should be judged on there actions and there ability to stand up for what is right not on getting drunk and banging chicks, I was doing that in juinor high and i was far from manhood.[/quote]
Most kids these days are definately soft based on my experiences. When I was in the 10th grade, in history class we were talking about the right to bear arms. Most of the kids believed that guns were dangerous and they should be outlawed. The teacher foolishly asked me what I thought and I said the right to bear arms was so that citizens could uprise if the government had taken away their rights.
Then everyone was in disbelief and was trying to make a fool of me. Anyway this one guy says what can you do against tanks and helicopters with just rifles and shotguns. I said “people who are cowards like you who are not willing to fight for the rights that are given to them do not deserve to have them”. Seriously that kind of attitude that kid had was weak and a lot of other kids are still like that.
I mean when colonists here said enough is enough with British tyranny, they rebelled with what seemed to them little chance of winning and won their freedom, imagine if they all had a weak attitude like that kid, America would still be a British colony.
There seems to be some confusion on what a rite-of-passage is: it is a public/cultural ritual/event acknowledged by society in which the participant(s) move from one stage of life to another (in the eyes of society), tossing off the behavior of the former and taking on the responsibilities of the later.
I am not sure what getting drunk or having sex has to do with this. Does society raise up in acceptance because some kid has sex or gets drunk. No. In fact, it is generally frowned on.
Now, the lack of having rites-of-passages in Western society concerning when boys become men has received a fair amount of study and even greater concern. Terms such as “man/child” and “suspended adolescence” pop up in discussions of the phenomenon. Although not heated, there is a cultural debate about video games.
Originally seen as a child’s occupation, the prevalence of game with the adults (especially men) reads to some as the inability of some men to cast off childhood and embrace the responsibilities of adulthood. Their argument: you play video games, you are still a child. When people play video games instead of getting a job or going to class, it is a fair argument.
Look at advertising and it often pairs fathers with their kids when it comes to fun things to do. There seems to be a perception that men are in fact childlike - this seems to be a common motif in sitcoms. Wearing jerseys, or oversize clothes, is something childlike - playing pretend or acting like adults, while not actually being an adult.
There is no rite-of-passage between boy and man in Western society, short of military service which involves a small part of the population. The fact the lines between child and adult are missing sets up and interesting perspective on behavior - both male and female alike. The struggle to prove yourself one, and not the other, is in effect futile. What it means to be a man is up in the air following the feminist movement and cultural shifts as of late.
On another note: It is funny that in the writings of TC and others on the site about being/becoming/growing as men there is real wisdom that is ignored by many on the site in an effort to appear manly.
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
There seems to be some confusion on what a rite-of-passage is: it is a public/cultural ritual/event acknowledged by society in which the participant(s) move from one stage of life to another (in the eyes of society), tossing off the behavior of the former and taking on the responsibilities of the later.
I am not sure what getting drunk or having sex has to do with this. Does society raise up in acceptance because some kid has sex or gets drunk. No. In fact, it is generally frowned on.
Now, the lack of having rites-of-passages in Western society concerning when boys become men has received a fair amount of study and even greater concern. Terms such as “man/child” and “suspended adolescence” pop up in discussions of the phenomenon. Although not heated, there is a cultural debate about video games.
Originally seen as a child’s occupation, the prevalence of game with the adults (especially men) reads to some as the inability of some men to cast off childhood and embrace the responsibilities of adulthood. Their argument: you play video games, you are still a child. When people play video games instead of getting a job or going to class, it is a fair argument.
Look at advertising and it often pairs fathers with their kids when it comes to fun things to do. There seems to be a perception that men are in fact childlike - this seems to be a common motif in sitcoms. Wearing jerseys, or oversize clothes, is something childlike - playing pretend or acting like adults, while not actually being an adult.
There is no rite-of-passage between boy and man in Western society, short of military service which involves a small part of the population. The fact the lines between child and adult are missing sets up and interesting perspective on behavior - both male and female alike. The struggle to prove yourself one, and not the other, is in effect futile. What it means to be a man is up in the air following the feminist movement and cultural shifts as of late.
On another note: It is funny that in the writings of TC and others on the site about being/becoming/growing as men there is real wisdom that is ignored by many on the site in an effort to appear manly.
[/quote]
Huh ??
[quote]ironmaniac508 wrote:
Yeah having a physically demanding job really does toughen you out. When I was 15 me and my boss were working outside in the dead of winter and he would say it builds character. If you think about it he was right, you had to toughen up to finish the job not say my piggies are cold can I leave now.
Most young adults these days have never worked a physically intensive job so they have to become men through other means. I would say any boy who dedicates themself and works hard to achieve their goal is becoming a man in a true sense.[/quote]
I think its more then just a physical thing that makes a boy a man… sure, doing hard labor may help some people realize they can handle anything… for others its the realization that if you study enough you CAN learn material you dont understand…
I personally think being a man means two things:
rationalization for the above: You can bitch its cold and its hard work, or you can accept that you cant control the weather and keep working. Or, you can decide you dont like that type of work, and change your surroundings (ie get a different job)… Either way, you manned the fuck up…
For me personally, it was the realization that I can handle anything life throws at me… is it always easy? fuck no… is it always fun? fuck no… Will there be times I want to quit? fuck yes there will… Can I get through it? Absolutely…