Upon further review…let me see if I have this straight. Moslems kill 6,000 innocent people in the U.S. Countless Moslems dance in the streets. Moslem leaders say “we deserved it”. Taliban soldiers say it’s in their holy books to kill infidels. Countless magazine articles in National Review and other magazines on the web say that Fundamentalist Islam is inherently violent. Islamic leaders in the U.S. refuse to comdemn the violence and instead warn American not to have anti-Arab feelings. And then here comes t-teen prancing along with “my Moslem friend hasn’t killed me so there!” and “unless you can show me the exact line in the Koran, I don’t believe you! (like I give a fuck what you believe)!” And if I don’t do that I have no right to voice my statements. Fuck you. I’ll say anything I want anytime I want. You’re a little whining cunt. I wish for the sake of all the people who have lost their lives and all the peole who undoubtedly will lose their lives killing these bastards that I could get my hands on you and beat your skull in. It would be my pleasure.
(I AM USING UPPER-CASE LETTERS NOT TO COMMUNICATE YELLING OR SCREAMING BUT TO DISTINGUISH FROM MY WORDS AND BRI’S)
UPON EVEN FURTHER REVIEW…NOW ITS MY TURN TO SEE IF I HAVE THIS STRAIGHT. “Moslems kill 6,000 innocent people in the U.S.” AND YOUR POINT IS? MY POINT IS: SICK AND INHUMANE MONSTERS KILLED 6,000 PEOPLE. THEY WERE MUSLIMS, OR AT LEAST UP UNTIL THEY STARTED INTERPRETING THE ISLAMIC RELIGION FOR THE SELFISH REASON OF JUSTIFYING THEIR FUTURE ACTS. “Countless Moslems dance in the streets.” I ALREADY EXPLAINED THIS…DID YOU NOT READ MY PREVIOUS REPLY? “Moslem leaders say ‘we deserved it’.” THE MUSLIM LEADERS WILL POINT TO U.S. SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL, U.S. SANCTIONS ON IRAQ, AND U.S SOLDIERS IN THE MUSLIM HOLY LAND OF SAUDI ARABIA. OF COURSE, WE KNOW THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS NOT USING ISREAL TO GET RID OF THE PALESTINIANS AND TO SPREAD JEWISH INFLUENCE. WE KNOW WE HAD EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD TO PUT SANCTIONS ON IRAQ. WE KNOW WE HAVE JUSTIFIABLE REASONS TO PUT U.S. SOLDIERS IN SAUDI ARABIA. BUT THEY DON’T KNOW THIS. AND THAT IS WHY THEY THINK WE DESERVED IT. BRI, WHAT DOES THIS PROVE ABOUT THE KORAN SPECIFICALLY ORDERING MUSLIMS TO KILL UNBELIEVERS? “Taliban soldiers say it’s in their holy books to kill infidels.” YES, OF COURSE THEY HAVE SAID THIS. THEY HAVE ALSO SAID THAT THE KORAN FORBIDS TELEVISION AND BANS WOMEN FROM WORKING. READ MY PREVIOUS REPLY ABOUT IRAN’S ATTITUDE TOWARD THE SO-CALLED REPUTABLE FAITH OF THE TALIBAN. “Countless magazine articles in National Review and other magazines on the web say that Fundamentalist Islam is inherently violent.” AND WHY WOULDN’T THEY? BRI, THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED FUNDAMENTALISTS. DO YOU GET IT NOW? “Islamic leaders in the U.S. refuse to comdemn the violence and instead warn American not to have anti-Arab feelings.” I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU GET YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION, BUT I HAVE REPEATEDLY SEEN NUMEROUS ISLAMIC LEADERS IN THE U.S. CONDEMN THE VIOLENCE. I HAVE EVEN SEEN, ON MANY OCCASIONS, ISLAMIC SCHOLARS IN THE U.S. CLEARLY STATING THAT NOTHING MOHAMMAD (SP?) HAS EVER SAID JUSTIFIES THE HORRIBLE ACTS OF SLAUGHTER. AND THEY ARE BEGGING AMERICANS NOT TO HAVE ANTI-ARAB FEELINGS, NOT WARNING. "And then here comes t-teen prancing along with “my Moslem friend hasn’t killed me so there!” and “unless you can show me the exact line in the Koran, I don’t believe you! (like I give a fuck what you believe)!” COME ON, BRI, YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT. I EXPLAINED THE SITUATION ABOUT MY MUSLIM FRIEND IN MY PREVIOUS REPLY. AND BRI, THIS ISN’T ABOUT BELIEVING YOU OR NOT BELIEVING YOU. LIKE I SAID EARLIER, MY ONLY INTENTION BY POSTING ON THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS TO CHALLENGE YOU TO BACK UP YOUR FACTS. SIMPLE. PLAIN. DONE. DON’T MAKE MY INTENTIONS BIGGER THAN THEY ARE. BRI, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES IN DEBATES (IF YOU CAN CALL THIS ONE), THE FIRST PERSON TO RESORT TO THE WORD FUCK IS THE FIRST PERSON TO SHOW SIGNS OF INSTABILITY IN THE DEBATE, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. “And if I don’t do that I have no right to voice my statements.” YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS. YOU ALSO HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO STATE FACTS. OKAY, FINE, YOU EVEN HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO STATE FACTS WITHOUT EVIDENCE, WITHOUT PROOF. BUT EVERYBODY ON THIS FORUM HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND EVERY TRUE MUSLIM IN THE WORLD HAS EVERY RIGHT TO HAVE SOMEONE SPEAK UP FOR THEM. AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO CHALLENGE YOU ABOUT YOUR SUPPOSED FACTS. “Fuck you.” I BELIEVE TC HIMSELF ONCE SAID THAT THE MOMENT ANYBODY RESORTS TO NAME-CALLING IS THE VERY MOMENT THE DEBATE IS OVER. OF COURSE, HE WAS REFERRING TO THE DEBATE BETWEEN BROCK AND JASON R. BARAN. JASON SAID SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THE LIKES OF ‘FUCK YOU’ TO BROCK. AT THAT MOMENT IT WAS VERY APPARENT BROCK HAD WON AND THAT THE DEBATE WAS OVER. “I’ll say anything I want anytime I want.” GO FOR IT. IT IS A FREE COUNTRY WE LIVE IN. GLAD YOU ARE TAKING AND USING THE OPPORTUNITY. “You’re a little whining cunt.” NAME-CALLING. AGAIN. “I wish for the sake of all the people who have lost their lives and all the peole who undoubtedly will lose their lives killing these bastards that I could get my hands on you and beat your skull in.” IN MY OPINION THIS HAS TO BE THE MOST IMMATURE THING YOU HAVE SAID TO DATE. THE REASONS ARE VERY OBVIOUS. “It would be my pleasure.” AS OUR EXCHANGE OF WORDS IS MINE.
Some more quotes I made up. I know they don’t count, cause your friend hasn’t killed you yet.
Also, you’re an idiot. The numbers given as reference are book and verse. The Bible has book, chapter and verse. “I expect you to do the same”. Given that you’ve read 6 verses of the Koran maybe you better shutup and start reading before giving orders? Little cunt. These quotes are from what you refered to as “holy books”.
The Koran exhorts the true believers as follows:
“War is enjoined against he Infidels.” II, 215
“Oh True believers, wage war against such of the infidels as are near you.” IX, 124
“When ye encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads until ye have made a great slaughter among them.” XLVII,:::: 4Koran 17:16-17
When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah’s word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants…Koran 8:37
In order that Allah may seperate the impure from the pure, Put All the impure ones (Non-Muslim), one on top of the another in a Heap and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost…Koran 44:43-50
Verily the Tree of Zaqqum will be the food of the sinful. Like molten brass it will boil in their insides, Like the boiling of scalding water Seize Ye Him and drag him into the midst of the blazing Fire Then pour over his head the penalty of Boiling Water…Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land…Koran 8:50
If you could see when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers at death. How they smite their faces and backs saying “Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire”
Sura (chapter) 8 Verse 12
Terrorise the mind of infidals (kafirs), Behead them and break their limbs.
Sura (chapter) 8 Verse 37
Fight them so long idol worship does not end and Allah’s religion not loved by all.
Sura (chapter) 9 Verse 4
When the holy month ends, gherao (surround) the idol worshippers, wherever found, and attack them.
…let’s see “behead them and break their limbs”, no that’s not violent. Your gay friend would never do that to you…
“Kill an infidel wherever he is found. Evil practices and miseries spread because of them. It is better to kill them than have anarchy. Therefore, kill kafirs (non Muslims), but those who supplicate and seek protection and pledge to obey the dictates of Allah be spared. Do not have enemity with them. Fight infidals around you. Let them understand how merciless you are. And keep it in mind that those who fear God and obey Him Allah resides in them.”
(Koran, Sura 9, Verse 25)… “Punish the kafirs. Kill them. First tell them to adopt Islam, if they do not accept Islam, kill them. Slay them wherever they are found.”
(Koran: Sura 4 Verse 90 to 95)
“Slay them or sell them as slaves.”
(Koran: Chapter 5, Verse 30 to 35
Do you still expect me to “admit I’m wrong”? Are you an asshole or what?
Well done Bri.I started to compile a list of quotes last night,but yours is more extensive.“Islam is a peaceful religion"cry the sheep.Centuries of history prove contrary,all you have to do is read.“The koran preaches love"Wrong again.Just read it.Also a good read is a factual biography of Mohamed the self-styled"last prophet of God”.Get to the parts where he marries 6 year old Aiesha.Nails the kid and puts her in his harem along with the wife of his own son.Read also how he respects women,as he equates their evil with satan and condones violence against them.Compare this"holy” character to Jesus Christ and His teachings and behavior.
Bri, I checked up on a few of your verses. Not one matched what I was reading in the Koran. Hyok, please do me a favor: Look up the references given by Bri in your Koran. Let me know if what you see matches what Bri wrote. I just want a verification here. To Bri: Did you get the verses straight from the Koran?
T-teen ,you must be one royal fucking idiot.Can’t you look up the simplest thing???I found all the quotes Bri posted as well as others(sura 9.5)along the same lines.You are obviously too stupid to even bother arguing or debating with…let alone trying to convince you of the obvious.Have fun with your moslem friend…and if he ever ASS RAPES you and then kills you…I guess you’ll be convinced.
Stop being such a jerk, blutovich. You sure qualify as a posterboy for Christian goodness.
Thank you Hyok. I’m glad you can see that this isn’t about who is right and who is wrong, but about right and wrong. I know you know what I mean. Blutovich, let me show you how I reached my conclusion about Bri’s verses being inaccurate. I will use the first three verses Bri listed; I am certainly not going to write all of the real verses. When Bri supposedly reviewed the Koran, he discovered that II 215 reads: “War is enjoined against he Infidels.” I turned to Book II (The Cow) and looked up verse 215. It reads: “They ask you as to what they should spend. Say: Whatever wealth you spend, it is for the parents and the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, and whatever good you do, Allah surely knows it.” Okay, Bri then goes on to IX 124. He claims it reads: “Oh True believers, wage war against such of the infidels as are near you.” I turned to Book IX (Repentance) and looked up verse 124. It actually reads: “And whenever a chapter is revealed, there are some of them who say: Which of you has it strengthened in faith? Then as for those who believe, it strengthens them in faith and they rejoice.” Now, and I’ll just do one more here, the next verse Bri listed was XLVII 4. Again, he wrongly claims it reads: “When ye encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads until ye have made a great slaughter among them.” In reality, XLVII (Muhammad) 4 reads: “So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased he will certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that he will try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, he will by no means allow their deeds to perish.” So there you have it. I checked up on the verses ealier. None matched what Bri wrote. Let me ask you, Blutovich, how does that make me a royal fucking idiot?
Bluto, you and all people who “think” like you are more dangerous to the well-being of our society than all the terrorists, muslim or otherwise, in the world. I suspect you must be Jason R. Baran in disguise and off your meds again. Take a hike little man!
Avoids Roids, you and all people who think like you are the reason we are going to win this war! And it is going to take more than THEIR Allah to save them from you and all people who think like you! Come to think of it, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bri and Blutovich are both actually Jason R Baran, who figured two of him on the forum will make him half as ignorant, when in fact his ignorance doubled. First Jason R Baran attack: Judaism. Second Jason R Baran attack: Islam. What’s next: Buddaism? I can hear him now: “Do you guys not get it? Every Buddhist in the world is out to turn you into a statue!” Of course, the medical community will find him and take him back to the asylum where they will make sure they put tighter and thicker straps around his bed, since he escaped the previous time by using his anger and aggression at the world to break the straps. OK, so most likely Blutovich and Bri aren’t Jason R Baran, and are actually two different people, but it was a nice thought while it lasted!
I think we should execute all extremists! (let’s see who picks up on the irony in that statement :-). Brock
Let me see if I get this straight. I quote the Koran and many people who have studied it far more than you (including many Muslims) who say it’s filled with violence and hate and is not at all inclusive in the Judeo-Christian way. This is ignorance?
You say the verses don’t match exactly and then quote your version which talks about smiting the infidels in battle, etc. Gee that doesn’t match exaclty what I said, so I guess you’re right? Bin Laden and countless others have said plainly “this is what our holy book says”. Your response? Iran is aiding those who disagree with the Taliban. Interesting but irrelevent to the point of what is in the Koran. Maybe they just don’t like them. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan supported the Taliban so how does any of that go to the issue of what Islam is about? Basically anything who says anything you or your friend don’t like is ignorant.
Another issue which indicates how blockheadedness is kind of like the perfect communism argument. When the USSR was in existence people used to say “it’s not communism that’s bad…communism is great…it’s just that the USSR has it all wrong…that’s why they have to resort to oppression, etc”. So of today’s Muslim countries name one that doesn’t have a tradition of despotism and violence. In the West Bank the Jews have asked the Palestinians to renounce violence and they’ll give them their land back. They won’t do it. It’s part of their charter to exterminate Jews. Everywhere Islam goes, terror follows. Then t-queen and his friend come along “No, no, no…it’s not the Koran or Islam (holy books you called the Koran) that’s bad…it’s just a few people who misunderstand it.” Yes a “few” people in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran and basically every other Muslim country in the world. Are they wrong or are you? How stupid are you?
I hate to sound like a pessimist, but Bri is right in this case, as un-“PC” as that may sound. Islam is not a nice, peaceful, non-violent religion. It literally advocates killing the “infidels,” and they regard us (Americans) as infidels, due to us having a military presence in Saudi Arabia, our supporting and arming Israel, etc. Reality sucks sometimes.
“OF COURSE, WE KNOW THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS NOT USING ISREAL TO GET RID OF THE PALESTINIANS AND TO SPREAD JEWISH INFLUENCE. WE KNOW WE HAD EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD TO PUT SANCTIONS ON IRAQ.”
I'm only 16 and I live in Sweden, so that's why my english sucks. Anyway, this is what I think about all this:
- Everyday, when I read the newspaper, the headlines say something like “X palestinians where killed by israelian forces”. I read that day after day. USA is supporting Israel - so they are indirectly supporting the killing of palestian citizens. Israel has the strongest army in this area, what does the palestinians have? Nothing.
I think that this is one reason for why many muslims hate USA, you are supporting israel (and indirectly the killing of muslims).
- The attack against WTC was terrible, 6000 innocent died because of some idiots. Some of you want to bomb Afghanistan because of this, and I understand you. I would probably want to bomb them too, if I were an american. But think about this, 500 000 children have died since the sanctions against Iraq began. 500 000 children in 10 years. That’s almost 1 WTC attack per month. If you are angry, what do you think that the people of Iraq are? The reasons for the sanctions are good, but I don’t think the people of Iraq care about those reasons when they see their families starve to death.
As long as people die in Iraq because the sanctions, many in Iraq will hate USA (after all, you’re leading the sanctions).
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The bombings will not stop terrorism. I think that they are counterproductive. When you bomb Afghanistan, some stupid taliban will get mad and do something terrible in the states again (blow up a bomb or whatever). How are you going to respond then? Violence leads to violence.
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And to those of you who say that islam is a violent religion, there are more than 1 000 000 000 muslims in this world. How many of them are violent? Not that many. When you read the Koran Islam may seem to be a very violent religion, but seriously, the majority of the muslims are just like you and me, they want to live a happy life in peace.
Matti: Firstly, I dispute strongly the figure of 500,000 dead Iraqis due to the sanctions. (I’d like to know who supplied you with that figure). Regardless, though, those deaths should be laid at the feet of SADDAM HUSSEIN and his regime, NOT the U.S. or the U.N. Did you expect us to continue to allow free trade with Iraq when they are clearly trying to develop weapons of mass destruction (nuclear, biological, chemical, radioactive), rebuild there military and terrorize the region and the world again?? Do you think for one second that we should have continued to allow that to happen by allowing Saddam’s regime to trade as openly and freely as before the Gulf War, thereby funding there evil efforts??? Think about it.
Secondly: Violence begets violence? We shouldn’t be bombing Afghanistan because we’ll only ANGER the Taliban or Al-Qaeda even more, thereby inciting them to attack us again?? Guess what, irrespective of our bombing them, they have been doing EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER, for YEARS, to plan to attack us again and again and AGAIN!!! Do you think they planned on STOPPING after the WTC attacks??? Bin Laden has been saying that it’s the duty of “all Muslims” to amass as much weaponry of ALL kinds as possible in order to destroy “the infidels,” i.e. Americans!!! Shall we allow him to just sit there and continue with his plans?! Or should we try to sit down with him over tea and REASON with him!!! OF COURSE we have to ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY DESTROY him, his network, and those who harbor them!!! USE YOUR FUCKING HEAD!!! (Thank you).
Damici, Islam may be evil. It also might not be. I challenge you to show me hard evidence that proves Islam “literally advocates killing the ‘infidels,’”. The supposed facts that Bri gives are not hard evidence. Showing me a verse in the Koran that reads “Kill the infidels” within an undisputable context is hard evidence. I am not saying Islam is peaceful or evil. I am just challenging you to present your evidence. And just to let you know, ‘they’ ((as in “they regard us (Americans) as infidels”)) should refer to Islamic extremists, not the 1,000,000,000+ Muslims around the world.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! Bri, you are hilarious! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! People like you, Bri, are so ignorant their ignorance is predictable! Whew! I have to control myself! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Let’s talk about one verse in the Koran, shall we? XLVII (Muhammad) 4 is the verse. But before we talk about the verse, let me reiterate what I have mentioned numerous times already. My challenge, my only challenge to you, was to show me the verses from the Koran you must have read in order to state in the forum that the Koran advocates the killing of infidels. You have failed to do so. Not only have you failed, but you listed verses that simply don’t exist in the Koran. By doing so, Bri, you now completely lack credibility. I have one question: Where did you get those made-up verses? From a racist website? From Blutovich? From the dark corners of your mind? Oh, why am I bothering? It isn’t like you are going to tell me the truth. I have won my challenge. I suspected you didn’t have any sound proof for your statements (regardless of whether Islam is peaceful or evil), and not only was I right, but you have proven yourself a liar. I’m having a little too much fun here! Now about XLVII (Muhammad) 4. In an earlier reply of mine, I wrote the actual verse. And when you saw it, your reaction was similar to that of a fish in the ocean who, after years and years of trying unsuccessfully, finally spots a worm in the ocean. But, unfortunately for that fish, the worm was attached to a hook, and well, you can figure the rest. See, let me begin by profiling an extremist like you, Bri: Inability to see beyond the surface of a situation, poor credibility in regard to trustworthiness, and naïve logic, which results in poor interpretation and observation skills. You read XLVII (Muhammad) 4 and your mind read, “What an idiot T-Teen is, he refutes my verse (“When ye encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads until ye have made a great slaughter among them”) and then writes the correct verse, ‘which talks about smiting the infidels in battle, etc’. Hooray! Racist people like me will prevail……er, at least the un-Islamic ones!” Allow me now to analyze and interpret XLVII (Muhammad) 4: “So when you meet in battle {WE KNOW THERE IS A WAR UNDERWAY} those who disbelieve {THE MUSLIMS IN THE WAR ARE FIGHTING ‘THEIR’ DISBELIEVERS, AS THE PEOPLE THEY ARE FIGHTING ARE FIGHTING ‘THEIR’ DISBELIEVERS}, then smite {DEFINITION OF SMITE: TO INFLICT A HEAVY BLOW ON, WITH OR AS IF WITH A HAND, A TOOL, OR A WEAPON} the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners {IN JUST ABOUT EVERY WAR YOU WILL HAVE PRISONERS OF WAR (POW)}, and afterwards either set them free as a favor {VERY FORGIVING} or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates {FORGIVING BECAUSE THE POWS ARE RELEASED WHEN THE WAR IS OVER. THEIR LIVES ARE SPARED UNDER THE COMMAND OF ALLAH}. That (shall be so) {ALLAH IS ORDERING MUSLIMS TO FOLLOW HIS ORDER}; and if Allah had pleased he will certainly have exacted what is due from them {MEANING: IF ALLAH WISHES HE WILL MAKE THE UNBELIEVERS BELIEVERS}, but that he will try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah {MEANING: THOSE WHO DIE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH}, he will by no means allow their deeds to perish {MEANING: ALLAH WILL NEVER FORGET THEM}.” You Bri, you racist, you, summed this harmless and sometimes even peaceful verse by saying it “talks about smiting the infidels in battle, etc’. So that is how you reach your conclusions? This will be harsh, and I regret to say it, but you lack the intelligence to read and understand one simple verse. Consequently, and rightly so, everything you say henceforth means absolutely nothing. Let me clarify that point again: EVERYTHING YOU SAY HENCEFORTH MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. One more time: EVERYTHING YOU SAY HENCEFORTH MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Why? One, your words now lack credibility as you have lied. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, you have shown yourself as a person who cannot correctly interpret information. Thus, we now hold your observations to be incompetent. If you can go beyond the words I’m writing, your poor interpretation and observation skills may be the very source of your racism. Think about it. Oh, Bri, you’re too much! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! I had so much control over you I knew what your next move would be! I just knew you would read XLVII (Muhammad) 4, see the words ‘disbelieve’, ‘smite’, ‘battle’, ‘prisoners’, ‘war’, ‘terminates’ and reach a quick conclusion: Islam advocates the killing of unbelievers. Racist people like you are such easy people to conquer because they never reach their extreme conclusions with hard facts. They cannot go beyond the obvious. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! You’re too funny, man!
“I’d like to know who supplied you with that figure”
UNICEF - The United Nations Children’s Fund
“Regardless, though, those deaths should be laid at the feet of SADDAM HUSSEIN and his regime, NOT the U.S. or the U.N.”
Yes, it’s because of Saddam that the sanctions exist. But it’s the Iraqian people that are suffering because of these sanctions, not Saddam.
“Think about it.”
I’ve thought a lot about it and unfortunately I don’t have a solution. BUT, as long as the sanctions are existing and innocent people are dying, people will hate the western world / USA. I just want you to understand why some people in the world hate “us”.
"Do you think they planned on STOPPING after the WTC attacks??? "
Not exactly, but I think it’s really hard to stop violence with violence, but then again, that’s only my opinion. Look at the Israel / Palestina conflict. The palestinians blow up a bomb in Israel. Israel takes revenge by killing a couple of palestinians. The palestinians respond with another bomb, and so on.
"USE YOUR FUCKING HEAD!!! "
Um. Is it impossible to discuss this without being rude?
Oh well, have a nice day. 
When choosing who to believe, I chose not to believe blow hards who have read 6 verses of the Koran. I got those verses from a Website discussing various religions. There are many versions of the Koran just as there are many translations of the Bible. I doubt the verses I provided are completely off the mark. More likely you lack the ability to look up simple verses in a book. Yes, I did realize that verse was about a “battle”. But it’s violent imagery nonetheless. And why does Islam talk about “battles”? and cutting people’s heads off? Does Christianity? No. By talking about battle scenes it presents a violent image of itself against the infidel world…so the verse is “violent” even though it’s violent only toward those who it is in “battle” with. I guess you could argue that “hey, it didn’t say you HAD to be in battle with all infidels.” It doesn’t choose to see itself in a bloody battle. As for intelligence, I graduated from MIT with a BS in math…not rocket science but I’m smart enough to know that if 100 people who study the issue say Islam is violent (including radical Muslims themselves) and one guy named t-queen says it isn’t (after having read 6 verses)…I’ll believe the 100. You didn’t address the central issue of how all these people (extremeist Muslims) could be wrong when they say they “got it from their holy books”. They’ve actually read the whole thing…you haven’t, so how would you know? Why would I take your word over theirs? Your refutation of this was that “Iran opposes the Taliban”…Oh, OK, so then the Koran must be peaceful…that’s a non sequiter. Iran is also the country that issued a death decree on Salman Rushdie for writing something they didn’t like. Yes, very peaceful those Iranians. Somehow I think I would be fair in saying that you’re insufferable and have a hard time listening to other people. Also if one who uses the “f” word first is wrong in a debate, then one who goes around throwing the “racist” word is right behind him.
Oh Matti, I wish that you were you correct. The world would be a much better place. I believe that Sweden may be too many generations removed from violence and war to truly comprehend what is happening elsewhere now. And THAT is a good thing. Enjoy the weekend my friend!