Religious Belief and National Security

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

Man, I just wish someone would come up with a time machine so that the Western intellectual elite of today could teach Mohammed what Islam really is, so these various events in history – both at Mohammed’s own hand and those of his followers – would never have happened.

And my, these folk have to be pleased with themselves. Imagine how smart one has to be to know what Islam really is better than Mohammed himself did! Now that’s some kind of intelligence and wisdom. No wonder the leftists don’t trust the rest of us to do our own thinking. Anyone else pales before their intellectual luminescence.

22

[quote]pushharder wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:

I do not think Washington was thinking he would have Muslims trying to kill Americans. Second, I’m sure most of the military was not as it is today. The military was a privately paid for, which the payees would own themselves, that would allow them to be selective of who they allowed in the service?

During Washington’s day, the Barbary powers were raiding American ships and carrying sailors and travelers off into slavery. Benjamin Franklin tried to convince them that we weren’t a Christian nation and that we weren’t at war with them. They basically told them that Muhammad said it was ok.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/09/britains-200-year-jihad.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/09/over-one-million-european-christians-kidnapped-and-enslaved-by-muslims.html

I want reparations.

[/quote]

I’m still out of work. If you want to get a boat, some guns, and some guys, we can pull a Stephen Decatur and go take some reparations for ourselves.

1 million people x (at least 100,000 USD) x interest rate compounded quarterly x about 300 years = a lot of money.

23

[i]Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a “Muslim first and American second.”

One Army doctor who knew him said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim soldier had stopped fellow officers from filing formal complaints.[/i]

I don’t really feel any need to add my own comments.

24

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
there’s a guy recently in the news who was KNOWN by the military to have such beliefs, or at least known to have stated and written things that suggested such beliefs

[/quote]
Bill, they ARE typically refused – it just depends on the type of clearance and the position one is applying for. And if they are not then as I also said someone is not doing their job.

However, no person is not considered just because they happen to be Muslim – what does that even mean? Do you know the difference between the different sects and who really believes what? Because it does matter.

The criteria you outline is a moot point. No persons that you describe would ever be considered for a top clearance. And no, this person recently in the news did not have a top clearance. Medical personnel have only a security clearance because they deal with patients and confidential information but not secret or top secret information.

Heck, even a lowly clerk has to have clearance to handle signed orders, etc.

25

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Religious freedom is important – ordinarily I would say it should be unqualified – but are beliefs such as that actually not cause to deny putting a gun into the hand, so to speak, of those wielding such beliefs?

What if your religious beliefs call for “warfare for the spread of religion” ('Umdat al-Salik citing Surah 9:5 and 9:29)? What if your religious beliefs call for demanding a head tax from non-believers and forcing them to live with all sorts of restrictions (see: Pact of Umar) and denial of Constitutional rights? [/quote]

Constant warfare, direct taxes and trampling on your constitutional rights?

Ahem…

26

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a “Muslim first and American second.”
[/quote]

This is a serious question (with no offense intended).

Do you consider yourself a Christian first?

27

[quote]spurlock wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a “Muslim first and American second.”

This is a serious question (with no offense intended).

Do you consider yourself a Christian first?

[/quote]

Absolutely.

28

[quote]Sloth wrote:
spurlock wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a “Muslim first and American second.”

This is a serious question (with no offense intended).

Do you consider yourself a Christian first?

Absolutely.
[/quote]

They why’d you use the quote? Are you implying that his statement was a ‘red flag?’

Once again, I’m just curious and not trying to offend…and maybe I’m retarded and missed your whole point, if so…please point this out so I may slap my self in the back of the head. lol

30

[quote]spurlock wrote:
Sloth wrote:
spurlock wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Fellow doctors have recounted how they were repeatedly harangued by Hasan about religion and that he openly claimed to be a “Muslim first and American second.”

This is a serious question (with no offense intended).

Do you consider yourself a Christian first?

Absolutely.

They why’d you use the quote? Are you implying that his statement was a ‘red flag?’

Once again, I’m just curious and not trying to offend…and maybe I’m retarded and missed your whole point, if so…please point this out so I may slap my self in the back of the head. lol[/quote]

A couple of things. He’s in the military, I’m not. Second, he “harangued” colleaques with this stuff. They weren’t comfortable with all his Islam talk. Now, the main reason I posted this was the fact that his co-workers were afraid to report his behavior. Afraid! The anti-discrimination mentality had such a chilling effect this guy’s colleagues were afraid to report him! For fear of being branded, what, bigoted?

31

[quote]pushharder wrote:

I don’t mean to speak for Sloth but do you see any difference between Christianity and Islam when it comes to the advocacy of violence? Any at all?[/quote]

Greetings fellow Montanan!

Speaking personally (how else can I…:), I have to admit that I’ve never actually read the Quran, nor much of anything of significance regarding the Islamic religion. So my opinion on the matter would probably end up sounding like a huge mishmash of bullshit I’ve picked up over the years…in other words, I don’t know.

As far as Christianity, I’m not trying to imply anything towards the actual religion in comparison (like some of the other threads have done) with my question for Sloth, I’m just trying to clarify whether or not he is using that particular quote for that reason (ie. ‘red flag’).

As far as advocacy of violence in general, it’s pretty evident that humans will use whatever justification that suits their needs at any given moment to explain what it is that they have done and why they did it.

Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Politicians, Soldiers, Police Officers, Consumers, Parents etc. are all capable of violence (obviously violence is being used in a very broad manner here). We experience it everyday, yet the corporate media tends to focus only on the most sensational. Their justifications can range from ‘The devil made me do it,’ or ‘In the name of Allah/Jesus/God/Etc.,’ or ‘I was just doing my job,’ to,‘I wasn’t aware that that purchase had violent consequences.’

Do any of their reasons or excuses justify what they’ve done? To them it is usually enough or right or just, but to others, it seems like madness. What this says about reality is sobering, I think.

I hope I answered your question.

By the by, what shanty town do you ride your horse in? :slight_smile:

32

[quote]Sloth wrote:
A couple of things. He’s in the military, I’m not. Second, he “harangued” colleaques with this stuff. They weren’t comfortable with all his Islam talk. Now, the main reason I posted this was the fact that his co-workers were afraid to report his behavior. Afraid! The anti-discrimination mentatlity had such a chilling effect, this guy’s colleagues were afraid to report him! For fear of being branded, what, bigoted? [/quote]

Gotchya. So what you’re saying is that you were primarily using the first part of that quote, right?

34

[quote]spurlock wrote:
Sloth wrote:
A couple of things. He’s in the military, I’m not. Second, he “harangued” colleaques with this stuff. They weren’t comfortable with all his Islam talk. Now, the main reason I posted this was the fact that his co-workers were afraid to report his behavior. Afraid! The anti-discrimination mentatlity had such a chilling effect, this guy’s colleagues were afraid to report him! For fear of being branded, what, bigoted?

Gotchya. So what you’re saying is that you were primarily using the first part of that quote, right?[/quote]

The whole quote.

35

[quote]pushharder wrote:
All fine and good but the fact of the matter is my question was about the doctrine of the two beliefs. One distinctly teaches one thing about violence; the other the opposite.[/quote]

The problem for myself is that fact that I’ve never actually read anything in significant detail to make any decision. I consider myself ignorant to Islam and probably will be till I’ve read enough Christianity, Zen Buddhism and Atheism to feel competent in those…lol, I’ll get back to you in a couple years.

[quote]
As far NW in MT as you can get.[/quote]

Ahh, not a city-folk like myself? That’s alright, living in the city is for idiots…wait, shit!

36

[quote]Sloth wrote:

The whole quote.[/quote]

:slight_smile:

Sometimes my slowness astounds me. Must be the H2S and benzene…