Some of you claim to advocate a free market until “fairness” comes into play.[/quote]
Government regulations are the only things that keep business from completely owning your ass. If business had it’s way, the vast majority of people would be working for subsistence level earnings, there would no quality control and businesses could make any claims they wanted to do about a product. Look to the late 1800s up until the '30s/'40s.
If you weren’t in the tiny minority of wage earners, your life was pretty shitty. Heroin-laced cough medicine. Dirt brown water. Air choked with smoke. 15 people crammed into an apartment and barely able to scrounge money up for rent. Working 80 hour work weeks for subsistence level pay. This is life without government regulation.
[/quote]
Yeah, without the government you would be paying the banks BILLIONS and would be forced to buy certain goods!
Some of you claim to advocate a free market until “fairness” comes into play.[/quote]
Government regulations are the only things that keep business from completely owning your ass. If business had it’s way, the vast majority of people would be working for subsistence level earnings, there would no quality control and businesses could make any claims they wanted to do about a product.
Look to the late 1800s up until the '30s/'40s. If you weren’t in the tiny minority of wage earners, your life was pretty shitty. Heroin-laced cough medicine. Dirt brown water. Air choked with smoke. 15 people crammed into an apartment and barely able to scrounge money up for rent. Working 80 hour work weeks for subsistence level pay. This is life without government regulation.
[/quote]
Yeah, without the government you would be paying the banks BILLIONS and would be forced to buy certain goods!
Government regulations are the only things that keep business from completely owning your ass. If business had it’s way, the vast majority of people would be working for subsistence level earnings, there would no quality control and businesses could make any claims they wanted to do about a product. [/quote]
No they wouldn’t.
Competition is quality control.
And despite the horrible work hours and conditions, people still worked those jobs because it was better than whatever the alternative was.
Really? Was it really? In the coal mines, it was compeition? The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? All of the other awful jobs that people held because NOBODY had to pay a living wage, and there were no safety restrictions- competition didn’t solve shit.
You’re full of shit here and you know it.
[quote]
And despite the horrible work hours and conditions, people still worked those jobs because it was better than whatever the alternative was. [/quote]
As opposed to starving and dying, which they did anyway?
You’re ignoring history on this point. Exactly as Omar said- there was the rich, and then there was the great masses that lived in squalor. Leave it to you to defend that.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
As a business owner, I can discriminate against whomever I want.
As an example, I own a sport supplement store. I’m not in a position financially to hire anyone just yet, but when I do, you can guarantee that I will discriminate against people who don’t live up to the image of my store. For instance, the guy or gal that comes in looking for work that is 50 pounds over weight and has never lifted a dumbbell in their life, there is no way I would consider hiring them. I’m actively discriminating against them. According to you guys, the government should prevent me from doing so.
edited[/quote]
So if you don’t want to hire blacks because they’re black, and you don’t want to serve blacks because they’re black, that should be OK? That’s what you’re telling me?[/quote]
I’m starting to think John S was correct about you.
You keep bringing up black people. Not me. I’m simply pointing out how a free market is supposed to work. If a store owner denies services to black consumers than his store will go under.
You need to read what is on your computer screen, and quit jumping to conclusions.
You keep bringing up black people. Not me. I’m simply pointing out how a free market is supposed to work. If a store owner denies services to black consumers than his store will go under.
[/quote]
This is what you said- “As a business owner, I can discriminate against whomever I want.”
And I asked you if you could discriminate against blacks, which you have balked at answering, just like your boy Rand.
And his store will NOT go under- there is a historical precedence for this that we’ve already been through that went for a hundred years after the Civil War where plenty of places who served only whites DID NOT go under.
Really? Was it really? In the coal mines, it was compeition? The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? All of the other awful jobs that people held because NOBODY had to pay a living wage, and there were no safety restrictions- competition didn’t solve shit.
You’re full of shit here and you know it.
So who forced these people to leave the farms or whatever else they were doing for mining coal or to work in factories? Who forced them to move from their homes in the countryside to a dirty, urban slum?
If you aren’t being paid enough to survive look elsewhere.
Quit looking to the government to solve everything.
So who forced these people to leave the farms or whatever else they were doing for mining coal or to work in factories? Who forced them to move from their homes in the countryside to a dirty, urban slum?
[/quote]
Do you live in this country? Have any comprehension of how things worked?
Where were recent immigrants supposed to go? I’m not explaining the whole history of it to you, where they came over and stayed with whomever they could in the city neighborhoods.
And things like the Dust Bowl or other famines such as the Great Famine of the 1840s, that’s what forced people to leave their farms- the threat of watching their families die a slow death.
Does any of this mean that they shouldn’t be offered safe and fair working conditions because the almighty “Market” did not dictate it? Or that they can only eat and work in certain places because the almighty business owners deemd it ok?
You’re utterly ridiculous. Government intervention doesn’t solve everything, but it does save the workers from being taken advantage of.
I don’t. I’m looking for them to reign in corporations that do not, and have not, ever given a shit about their workers or anything other than the bottom line.
Unbridled capitalism leads to a wealthy ruling class and the rest left to die.
You keep bringing up black people. Not me. I’m simply pointing out how a free market is supposed to work. If a store owner denies services to black consumers than his store will go under.
[/quote]
This is what you said- “As a business owner, I can discriminate against whomever I want.”
And I asked you if you could discriminate against blacks, which you have balked at answering, just like your boy Rand.
[/quote]
I don’t vote for politicians. Strike one.
I didn’t balk at anything. You continue to bring up black people. At no time did I ever bring up discriminating against blacks or any minorities. Strike two.
[quote]
And his store will NOT go under- there is a historical precedence for this that we’ve already been through that went for a hundred years after the Civil War where plenty of places who served only whites DID NOT go under.
So… you’re wrong.[/quote]
I don’t live in bumbfuck Mississippi. This isn’t 1875. If a business owner pulled that crap they won’t be in business much longer.
Strike three. You fail. Go take seat at the end of the dugout with the ballboy.
I didn’t balk at anything. You continue to bring up black people. At no time did I ever bring up discriminating against blacks or any minorities. Strike two.
[/quote]
When you say you can discriminate against anyone you want to, that’s what 95 percent of people are going to bring up. And I don’t care if you brought it up- I’m asking you. And you won’t answer.
Maybe where you live. And where I live. But what about Mississippi and Alabama? Because that’s where it happened the first time, and that’s where it would happen again.
Does any of this mean that they shouldn’t be offered safe and fair working conditions because the almighty “Market” did not dictate it? Or that they can only eat and work in certain places because the almighty business owners deemd it ok?
You’re utterly ridiculous. Government intervention doesn’t solve everything, but it does save the workers from being taken advantage of.
[/quote]
No, it means they shouldn’t rely on the government to take care of them. And some cases people didn’t and formed labor movements and went on strike. Or during the Dust Bowl, they either rode out the conditions at home or they packed their jalopy and headed west for greener pastures.
Yes, on occasion, the government does something right, but woe to the person who relies on the state to coddle them.
And we haven’t even gone into the monopolies that existed (with bad working conditions) at the behest of the government
No, it’s just understanding what happens when people rely on the state to take care of them.
When you say you can discriminate against anyone you want to, that’s what 95 percent of people are going to bring up. And I don’t care if you brought it up- I’m asking you. And you won’t answer. [/quote]
Just based off principle alone, I respectfully decline to answer your question.
You are implying racism for no reason.
All I ever claimed was that a business owner, because it’s their money/capital, has the right to cater to whomever they want. If you see racism in that, then I can’t help you.
When you say you can discriminate against anyone you want to, that’s what 95 percent of people are going to bring up. And I don’t care if you brought it up- I’m asking you. And you won’t answer. [/quote]
Just based off principle alone, I respectfully decline to answer your question.
You are implying racism for no reason.
All I ever claimed was that a business owner, because it’s their money/capital, has the right to cater to whomever they want. If you see racism in that, then I can’t help you.
[/quote]
That’s fine.
You should run for Congress. Kentucky will be looking.
When you say you can discriminate against anyone you want to, that’s what 95 percent of people are going to bring up. And I don’t care if you brought it up- I’m asking you. And you won’t answer. [/quote]
Just based off principle alone, I respectfully decline to answer your question.
You are implying racism for no reason.
All I ever claimed was that a business owner, because it’s their money/capital, has the right to cater to whomever they want. If you see racism in that, then I can’t help you.
[/quote]
Don’t argue with "Mr White Guilt " here. He keeps interjecting race and Blacks into the conversation as if that’s the end all be all to this.
Don’t argue with "Mr White Guilt " here. He keeps interjecting race and Blacks into the conversation as if that’s the end all be all to this.
[/quote]
Saying that racial discrimination should not be allowed by a business is not white guilt, its having some sense of social justice. I know those are two words none of the white, middle-class neocons on this board care to hear, but it’s an important concept.
When you say you can discriminate against anyone you want to, that’s what 95 percent of people are going to bring up. And I don’t care if you brought it up- I’m asking you. And you won’t answer. [/quote]
Just based off principle alone, I respectfully decline to answer your question.
You are implying racism for no reason.
All I ever claimed was that a business owner, because it’s their money/capital, has the right to cater to whomever they want. If you see racism in that, then I can’t help you.
[/quote]
Don’t argue with "Mr White Guilt " here. He keeps interjecting race and Blacks into the conversation as if that’s the end all be all to this.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
He could be the new direction for the Republican party , I think they may get some people back with some one like him . I can understand cutting social programs if you cut the military and the war on drugs as well[/quote]
That is what the Tea Party is about, if you are for a limited government obviously the war on drugs has to go, we need to pull are bases around the world, and we need to cut the social programs(those are states jobs).[/quote]
Don’t argue with "Mr White Guilt " here. He keeps interjecting race and Blacks into the conversation as if that’s the end all be all to this.
[/quote]
Saying that racial discrimination should not be allowed by a business is not white guilt, its having some sense of social justice. I know those are two words none of the white, middle-class neocons on this board care to hear, but it’s an important concept. [/quote]
How far do you take “Social Justice”? The answer is there is no limit, and it will grow worse and worse for the caucasian over the years to a shocking degree. The formerly “Opressed” will never be satified. Don’t you get where this eventually leads?
I’m saying get over it, everyone. I don’t agree that any business should discriminate against customers based on race, but as far as employees, hell yes, and they should…otherwise they are MORONS! I’m saying Affirmative Action has run it’s “Social Justice” coarse to a large degree.