[quote]Lorisco wrote:
WMD wrote:
Because they have. Ask Matthew Shepard about that. Oh, wait, you can’t because he was murdered for being gay. Or the gay couple whose common property (including their dog!) was taken by one man’s family after he was killed in a helicopter crash.
Ask the many gay people, men and women, who’ve been assaulted for no greater crime than being different, who’ve lost jobs, families, friends, housing and even their freedom because they had the temerity to be gay. And because people like you think they have a mandate from God to discriminate and judge and even kill.
Many gay people have been murdered in this society for no other reason than being gay. I tend to take it personally when I and people like me are singled out for discriminatory treatment.
Clearly you are projecting things about me that you have no idea about. So kindly stop accusing me of things you have no knowledge of.
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You are on this thread in numerous places projecting things about gay people that you have no idea about. Kindly stop doing THAT.
[quote]Also, no one is discriminating against anyone. You can marry whatever guy you want to just like anyone else. But no, you want the rules changed just for you. Not making special treatment for someone is not discrimination.
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Are you being deliberatly obtuse or is it natural? This whole issue is all about discrimination against gay people for being gay, for being outside of the norm. YOu know as well as I do that I don’t have the same rights or I would have the freedom to marry my girlfirend and that it should be none of your business who I marry. You keep calling it special rights as though there were no groups in this country that have special rights. HOw about churches being exempt from taxes? This is a straw man.
[quote]At least now you are starting to see the picture. I wonder what it would be like for you to live in constant fear and danger and harshness and to know that no one was on your side. I wonder it what it would be like for you to be rejected and thrown out on the street by your family like so many gay people have experienced. And maybe you noticed the APA took homosexuality out of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Apparently they do know what they are doing.
It is unfortunately that people who don’t agree with your choice have to result to violence and uncaring behavior. That is clearly wrong. However, that doesn’t mean people will start to agree with you when they think you are wrong.
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I don’t care if they agree with me or not. All they have to do is keep their grubby little hands off my life and my rights.
[quote]The APA took out the sexual identity disorder after massive pressure from the gay lobby. Not based on any study or scientific basis. Sorry to disappoint you.
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Yes there are so many of us gays that we now run the APA. You people cannot get your stories straight, much less make any sense out of them.
[quote]You really don’t remember what you write, do you? If you look above and in your previous posts, you make several arguments based on your assumption that gay people are either confused or conflicted about their sexual orientation. So what point were you trying to make here?
The point is that many gays are not conflicted because of external societal forces, but because of internal conflict. That they deep down know they are wrong but feel helpless to change.
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Are you talking about yourself here? I think the point is that you don’t know what you are talking about. But don’t let that stop you from revealing your ignorance. Watching you hang yourself is one of my favorite entertainments.
[quote]The gay bash was you saying I want to be a man. I think you know that, but you now feel compelled to pretend it wasn’t. You are way short on fact and long on prejudice. IN most gay relationships the partners do not choose male and female roles. That is you placing your binary worldview on top of the truth. You cannot concieve of anything other than traditional male/female roles therefore, all relationships must have male/female roles. I like how make assumptions based on my military and martial arts activities that what i really want is to be a man rather than a fully self-actualized human being with a wide variety of interests and skills. You live in a small world. I guess you think that all the hetero female cops and lawyers and doctors and athletes out there really want to be men, rather than having the freedom to live full lives.
So you are saying that it just happens that in a gay relationship one is more masculine than the other? Just random?
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I never said that one partner in a gay relationship takes on a masculine role. YOU said that.
[quote]Ok, how many lovers have you had that were into the same man-dominated pursuits that you current engage in?
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All of them.
[quote]Next, it is only natural for males to engage in these things as they are naturally bigger and stronger than females. You can disagree with that all you want, but its still a fact.
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It is not a fact. You are being a biological determinist. This reflects your particular biases not only towards gays, but apparently women as well.
[quote]Lastly, take doctor and lawyer out of that list as those are not physical activities that require size and strength.
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Well, your position was originally about male-dominated fields, not anything regarding strength differentials. So you are just backtracking so you can be right and feel justified for the gay bashing.
[quote]Here you are, several definitions of the word deviation. It means varying from the norm. Like black eyes are a variant from the norm of blue or brown eyes. You, however, see being different as a bad thing because it scares you. I’m afraid it remains your problem. People who lift weights deviate from the norm since most people don’t lift. Hide the children.
Would you rather I base this on a moral judgment? Or that homosexuality is contrary to evolution and survival of the fittest? You pick! Then we can talk about it. Either way there is ample evidence to support my case.
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Your whole position is based on a moral judgement. You have judged me and anyone like me to be bad, wrong, sick, etc. You often bring up survival of the fittest, which would suggest that if homosexuality were not to the species advantage in some way, homosexuals would have died out a long time ago. Since we are still here, evolution must have a need for us. Ample evidence for my case.
[quote]Sorry, dude, the bible is a theological document. It is not a history. What aspects of it have been proven accurate using carbon dating and the Dead Sea Scrolls? Saying it is historical would be akin to saying the Iliad is history because Schleimann was able to find Troy and Mycenae using it. Or like saying a historical novel is history because it uses history for it’s context.
Many of the places and events documented in the bible have been proven to be accurate based on carbon dating and archeological evidence. That is as much evidence as any other historical document possesses today. Now you can say that you don’t believe anything you didn’t actual see yourself. But short of that you have no factual basis of objection.
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You do realize that I am a biblical scholar and archeologist, right? Places mentioned in the bible have been found. Those places are also referenced in many extra-biblical sources. Jerusalem exists; prove Jesus rode a donkey thorugh its gates. No event from the Bible has has ever been proven to have occured. You have no understanding of the limits of archeology and the various dating techniques. The Bible remains a theological document.
[quote]Actually the Bible sets no criteria nor does it give a definition.
You might want to actually know what the bible states before you open you mouth and look foolish:
Genesis 2:20-24
"But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
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This is not a definition, nor is it a criteria.
[quote]If you look up you will see the point fly over your head. I think being given the same rights as everyone else would be like being treated as a full human in this society. The again, animals and inanimate objects can’t enter into marriage contracts, so the freedom to marry the partner of ones choosing would seem to be a very human-like act.
You have equal rights, you want special rights that don’t exist now.
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YOu mean like how women and blacks never had the right to vote until it was agreed that as human beings and legal citizens they had the right? Are those special rights? I don’t have equal rights. If I had equal rights we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
[quote]LOL I’m sorry, does gay bashing count as mature in your world?
Does using the words “gay bashing” when someone refers to your masculine behavior actually cover up the weakness of your position?
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No, it calls a spade a spade. Once again, you are being a biological determinist. Only men can do manly things. If a woman has the temerity to move outside your idea of gender roles, she is unfeminine. again, this is your problem. Please work on it. For the children.
[quote]Let me help you out with this. I am gay. I am sexually oriented to be attracted to women. I prefer to have sexual and romantic relationships with women. I have been this way all my life.
I personally have never said being gay was only about genetics, any more than being hetero is. I am pretty sure that it has a biological basis, as most things of this nature do. I can assure that I was not “nurtured” into being gay any more than most people are nurtured into being straight.
So in your convoluted way of looking at things, your biology has dictated your choice? Does that mean you can’t go against biology?
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You would be the expert on convolution. I have the freedom to make any choice I want and it is none of your business. Why would I want to go against my natural inclination to be with women? Because YOU don’t like it?
[quote]Really. What physiological or psychological trauma is there from consensual sex between two adults?
Since Zeb has presented this data at length, I will defer to him to give you that info as I don’t have time to look it up. But viewing the suicide rate of gays on the CDC website would be a good start.
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So you can’t come up with anything on your own, you have to defer to ZEB’s cherry-picked and distorted data. I’m sure you could not understand that the high suicide rate among gay people has a great deal to do with being mistreated by this culture. As lothario has said, time for you guys to stop being dicks.
[quote]You are now backpedaling from your previous statement where you say most child molestation is male-male and is therefore akin to homsexuality. You constantly compare homosexuality to pedophilia, when the two are not the same thing, you know with the adults and consent and all. Tell me, what is the pedophliac lifestyle?
No, I stated that other than the age of the participants, homosexuality was very similar to pedophilia in today’s society. They are both illegal, have poor health outcomes, etc…
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Homosexuality is not illegal in the US. Perhaps you don’t keep up with current events. Is that your problem? What is the poor health outcome of consensual sex?
[quote]What is different about homosexuality and pedophilia other than age/consent?
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What is the difference between heterosexuality and pedophilia other than age/consent?
[quote]Oh, so you think you are standing up for the “moral fabric” of our society. And I am tearing it down because I want to be treated fairly. Boy am I evil.
No, not evil, just making poor choices.
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So because you don’t like my choices (not that you know what my choices about anything are), they are poor. Whether you have the right to judge or whether you know what you are talking about is completely irrelevant. So long as we are clear.
[quote]I’m afraid you have to accept my sexual preference unless you intend to exterminate me and others like me.
No, I don’t have to accept you. Just being there doesn’t guarantee acceptance. Just like crime is here and I don’t accept that either.
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Once again you compare homosexuality to crime. And again, unless you plan to kill us all, you’re just going to have to live with it (that would be the definition of acceptance).
[quote]my place in it and insisting that I be treated the same way as everybody else. My sex practices do not define me and they are none of your business. As far as deviant goes, did you know that the KKK shares your views? Way to be part of the norm.
Did you know that Adolph Hitler shares your views? Way to be a rebel and buck the system!
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Adolph shares my views? I guess that’s why he put so many gay people in death camps and murdered them. You do know that is the origin of the pink triangle? Oh, you didn’t? Once again, you show your ignorant ass.
[quote]Let’s see, if God is such an intelligent designer, why would he make it possible for heteros to get it? Children do not get HIV from gay guys giving blood. They get it from infected people whose blood was not screened. Or didn’t you know blood banks are supposed to screen for HIV?
Ignorance is bliss! You need to check out the CDC website and see just how children get HIV. And how HIV got into the hetero population. Here’s a hit; the first documented AIDS case was in a gay guy. The first documented HIV case in a child was from a tainted blood supply where an HIV positive gay guy dominated blood.
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Again with the ignorance. Why don’t you actually post a link instead of just making shit up. According to the CDC, most kids get HIV from their infected parent when the are born. The first documented case of AIDS in the US was gay. There were cases in Africa before that ever occurred. Please try to deal in facts, not your fantasies.
[quote]Here’s a hint: if it is in the hetero population, one of those so called heteros had to have sex with someone who was infected. How weird is that? Therefore, who were they screwing with? Please go to the CDC website so you can see that HIV is not confined in any way to the gay population.
So if a gay guy has sex with a woman, that makes him not gay? If so, you may want to tell that to the gay guy who actual stated that on this tread.
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I never said anything of the sort. I’m just pointing out that if AIDS was exclusive to the gay community, heteros wouldn’t have it. You really have a hard time with logic, don’t you?
[quote]Next, the percentage of HIV in hetero verses gay population is very small. But it got into the hetero population from gays.
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Take a look at
http://www.unfpa.org/hiv/prevention/factsheet1.htm
and http://www.hivaidssearch.com/facts/hiv_aids_factual_statistics.htm
How did it get into the hetero population from gays? Like I said, some one is not being honest.
[quote]It is in fact rising most quickly among heterosexual women of color. I wonder what that means.
That means they are sharing needles. You really don’t read very well do you.
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CDC website states pretty clearly these women got HIV from heterosexual contact with men. So, they are not all sharing needles.
[quote]Lesbians have the lowest incidence, since we tend not to have penetrative sex with men. So that means lesbians are God’s chosen and men are the carriers of disease.
No marriage for you.
Funny you should bring that up as that, my dear, was predicted in the bible:
Romans 1:26-28
“26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Notice only the men received “in themselves” the penalty. The woman did not receive the penalty.
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So you agree that us lesbians are God’s chosen. As a member of that rarified circle I say to you, get thee from this place, thou unclean.
