[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Hey WMD, why is AIDS almost exclusively confined to the gay population and only gets into the hertero population by gays?
[/quote]
This is continued fallacy and sheer idiocy on your part. AIDS is a big problem in the heterosexual population, particulary in other countries-irrespective of how it original got there. Take your blinders off.
[quote]Jimmy Tango wrote:
ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Gay marriage should be legal because discrimination is wrong.
Everything else is just yammering about how you don’t like homosexuals.
That’s your entire argument?
Is “all” discrimination wrong? We discriminate against those who practice adult incest. We discriminate against polygamists. We also discriminate against quite a few other behaviors that society deems inappropriate.
ZEB, I already turned your ass into my personal playground for bringing up incest and polygamy in multiple previous posts. Get some new moves, buddy!
[/quote]
New moves tango boy? You don’t even know what your talking about. Avoiding the facts time after time doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
You and Harold need to go evolve together.
[quote]Jimmy Tango wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
The thought of a man and a man does make me nauseaus. And I will reiterate for the slow of mind - the act itself involves no love or beauty.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html
I must be working at lightspeed then, cuz you got schooled!
Go whine somewhere else about your feelings until your reading comprehension goes up enough to understand what that link means, boyeeee!
Real men use logic.[/quote]
Oh, great! Another community college PH.D with too much time on his hands.
[quote]WMD wrote:
Because they have. Ask Matthew Shepard about that. Oh, wait, you can’t because he was murdered for being gay. Or the gay couple whose common property (including their dog!) was taken by one man’s family after he was killed in a helicopter crash.
Ask the many gay people, men and women, who’ve been assaulted for no greater crime than being different, who’ve lost jobs, families, friends, housing and even their freedom because they had the temerity to be gay. And because people like you think they have a mandate from God to discriminate and judge and even kill.
Many gay people have been murdered in this society for no other reason than being gay. I tend to take it personally when I and people like me are singled out for discriminatory treatment.
[/quote]
Clearly you are projecting things about me that you have no idea about. So kindly stop accusing me of things you have no knowledge of.
Also, no one is discriminating against anyone. You can marry whatever guy you want to just like anyone else. But no, you want the rules changed just for you. Not making special treatment for someone is not discrimination.
It is unfortunately that people who don’t agree with your choice have to result to violence and uncaring behavior. That is clearly wrong. However, that doesn’t mean people will start to agree with you when they think you are wrong.
The APA took out the sexual identity disorder after massive pressure from the gay lobby. Not based on any study or scientific basis. Sorry to disappoint you.
The point is that many gays are not conflicted because of external societal forces, but because of internal conflict. That they deep down know they are wrong but feel helpless to change.
So you are saying that it just happens that in a gay relationship one is more masculine than the other? Just random?
Ok, how many lovers have you had that were into the same man-dominated pursuits that you current engage in?
Next, it is only natural for males to engage in these things as they are naturally bigger and stronger than females. You can disagree with that all you want, but its still a fact.
Lastly, take doctor and lawyer out of that list as those are not physical activities that require size and strength.
Would you rather I base this on a moral judgment? Or that homosexuality is contrary to evolution and survival of the fittest? You pick! Then we can talk about it. Either way there is ample evidence to support my case.
Many of the places and events documented in the bible have been proven to be accurate based on carbon dating and archeological evidence. That is as much evidence as any other historical document possesses today. Now you can say that you don’t believe anything you didn’t actual see yourself. But short of that you have no factual basis of objection.
You might want to actually know what the bible states before you open you mouth and look foolish:
Genesis 2:20-24
"But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.” 24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
You have equal rights, you want special rights that don’t exist now.
Does using the words “gay bashing” when someone refers to your masculine behavior actually cover up the weakness of your position?
So in your convoluted way of looking at things, your biology has dictated your choice? Does that mean you can’t go against biology?
Since Zeb has presented this data at length, I will defer to him to give you that info as I don’t have time to look it up. But viewing the suicide rate of gays on the CDC website would be a good start.
[/quote]
You are now backpedaling from your previous statement where you say most child molestation is male-male and is therefore akin to homsexuality. You constantly compare homosexuality to pedophilia, when the two are not the same thing, you know with the adults and consent and all. Tell me, what is the pedophliac lifestyle?
[/quote]
No, I stated that other than the age of the participants, homosexuality was very similar to pedophilia in today’s society. They are both illegal, have poor health outcomes, etc…
What is different about homosexuality and pedophilia other than age/consent?
No, not evil, just making poor choices.
No, I don’t have to accept you. Just being there doesn’t guarantee acceptance. Just like crime is here and I don’t accept that either.
Did you know that Adolph Hitler shares your views? Way to be a rebel and buck the system!
Ignorance is bliss! You need to check out the CDC website and see just how children get HIV. And how HIV got into the hetero population. Here’s a hit; the first documented AIDS case was in a gay guy. The first documented HIV case in a child was from a tainted blood supply where an HIV positive gay guy dominated blood.
So if a gay guy has sex with a woman, that makes him not gay? If so, you may want to tell that to the gay guy who actual stated that on this tread.
Next, the percentage of HIV in hetero verses gay population is very small. But it got into the hetero population from gays.
That means they are sharing needles. You really don’t read very well do you.
Funny you should bring that up as that, my dear, was predicted in the bible:
Romans 1:26-28
“26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Notice only the men received “in themselves” the penalty. The woman did not receive the penalty.
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey WMD, why is AIDS almost exclusively confined to the gay population and only gets into the hertero population by gays?
This is continued fallacy and sheer idiocy on your part. AIDS is a big problem in the heterosexual population, particulary in other countries-irrespective of how it original got there. Take your blinders off.[/quote]
I was talking about the USA. AIDS is a big issue in Africa as it is being spread quickly by hookers. And the African government is doing little to provide healthcare or education to its people to stop it. But again, the fact is that is all started with one gay guy.
Also, in the US, it is only a big problem with drug addicts who share needles. You need to check the CD for how it is spread and stop parroting things you hear without any facts.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Hey WMD, why is AIDS almost exclusively confined to the gay population and only gets into the hertero population by gays?
This is continued fallacy and sheer idiocy on your part. AIDS is a big problem in the heterosexual population, particulary in other countries-irrespective of how it original got there. Take your blinders off.
I was talking about the USA. AIDS is a big issue in Africa as it is being spread quickly by hookers. And the African government is doing little to provide healthcare or education to its people to stop it. But again, the fact is that is all started with one gay guy.
Also, in the US, it is only a big problem with drug addicts who share needles. You need to check the CD for how it is spread and stop parroting things you hear without any facts.
[/quote]
Please. AIDS is a problem amongst healthy, successful heterosexuals who are careless and fail to use protection and even some unlucky ones who do use protection. The CD acknowledges and the rest of the world regards it as objective fact. So should you.
As far African AIDS being spread by hooker’s, again, it matters not where it started. There are African countries with AIDS rate 40%. There aren’t that many damn hookers. At this point, mothers and fathers and children have it. And it’s still just opinion that it started with a gay guy. Especially in other countries.
You have no idea what population it broke out in in other countries. You believe what you want to believe.
FYI: 149,989 of the 440,887 cases of AIDS in exposure in 2003 were from heterosexual conduct. That is not insignificat. From the CDC website
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Please. AIDS is a problem amongst healthy, successful heterosexuals who are careless and fail to use protection and even some unlucky ones who do use protection. The CD acknowledges and the rest of the world regards it as objective fact. So should you.
As far African AIDS being spread by hooker’s, again, it matters not where it started. There are African countries with AIDS rate 40%. There aren’t that many damn hookers. At this point, mothers and fathers and children have it. And it’s still just opinion that it started with a gay guy. Especially in other countries.
You have no idea what population it broke out in in other countries. You believe what you want to believe.[/quote]
I can’t say where it started because I wasn’t there, but I can tell you that AIDS is much more likely to be spread by anal sex than it is by traditional sex. In fact, I think it’s around 20x more likely.
More evidence that unnatural sexual use of our bodies is destructive.
[quote]Jimmy Tango wrote:
ZEB, you’re pathetic.
[/quote]
You have still not given any reason to change a 5000+ year old institution for about 1% of the population. You can continue to dodge the issue however that simply bodes weak for your side.
Let me spell it out R E A S O N S.
Okay?
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
FYI: 149,989 of the 440,887 cases of AIDS in exposure in 2003 were from heterosexual conduct. That is not insignificat. From the CDC website[/quote]
Dude, isn’t the gay population like maybe 5% of the general pop (and I’m being really generous with 5%)?
Your stats just show that AIDS is much more prevelant in gay circles than in hetero circles.
Let’s stop all the fussin’ and a fuedin’.
Can’t we all just…get along.
[quote]Jimmy Tango wrote:
ZEB, I already turned your ass into my personal playground for bringing up incest and polygamy in multiple previous posts. Get some new moves, buddy!
[/quote]
You proved nothing regarding incest and polygamy! Those people deserve “love and happiness too.” LOL
Ha ha you are just upset with me because I have posted a multitude of reasons why gay marriage should not be allowed. And your side to date, including your posts have given not one good (as in valid) reason why gay marriag should be allowed.
Why don’t you get busy and prove to the forum why there should be gay marriage. I know you have a difficult argument on your hands, but avoidence is not winning you any points.
You are appearing weak!
TBy the way that is some very interesting phraseology there… “ass to playground.” Oookay…
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Jimmy Tango wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
The thought of a man and a man does make me nauseaus. And I will reiterate for the slow of mind - the act itself involves no love or beauty.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html
I must be working at lightspeed then, cuz you got schooled!
Go whine somewhere else about your feelings until your reading comprehension goes up enough to understand what that link means, boyeeee!
Real men use logic.
Oh, great! Another community college PH.D with too much time on his hands.[/quote]
Look out the militant social liberals and homosexuals are out in full force! LOL
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
FYI: 149,989 of the 440,887 cases of AIDS in exposure in 2003 were from heterosexual conduct. That is not insignificat. From the CDC website
Dude, isn’t the gay population like maybe 5% of the general pop (and I’m being really generous with 5%)?
Your stats just show that AIDS is much more prevelant in gay circles than in hetero circles.[/quote]
Absolutely. But Lorisco acts like it’s not a problem for all of us. And it most certainly is.
I sure as hell wouldn’t have sex with a girl without a condom unless we’d been dating for some time and had both gotten tested. His argument seems to be that something about the wrongness of the nature of homosexuality makes them uniquely positioned to get AIDS.
When really its the fact that they engage in more risky behaviors: unprotected sex, or protected anal sex (which is as risky as unprotected vaginal sex) and more drug use. Nothing more than that. He is sending a bad message and one that would seem to encourage irresponsibility on the part of heterosexuals because they are not positioned to get AIDS.
Not the case: engage in those behaviors-whatever your sexuality and you are at signficant risk.
Sure heterosexuals get AIDS. I think that lorisico was referring to the following staggering statistics.
According to the CDC:
“Of the 157,252 persons diagnosed with the virus in the period 2003-2004, 112,106 were men and 45,146 were women. More than 68,400 men were acknowledged having homosexual sex.”
That would be over 60% of all men with AIDS admitted as having homosexual sex!
Not a healthy behavior…nope.
And let’s not forget the following:
"Risky Sexual Behavior on the Rise Among Homosexuals. Despite two decades of intensive efforts to educate homosexuals against the dangers of acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) and other stds, the incidence of unsafe sexual practices that often result in various diseases is on the rise.
Note: The Center for Disease Control is a government institution. Not some right wing gay hating organization. They study health trends and statistics world wide in order to attempt to foresee the various disease’s that might be either already prevalent, or could become prevalent in the United States.
I posted only a few statistics here as there is no reason to overwhelm you with facts as I have in earlier posts. Simply review these few facts and give me an honest comment on them:
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1994 to 1997 the proportion of homosexuals reporting having had anal sex increased from 57.6 percent to 61.2 percent, while the percentage of those reporting “always” using condoms declined from 69.6 percent to 60 percent.
Homosexuals Failing to Disclose Their HIV Status to Sex Partners
A study presented July 13, 2000 at the XIII International aids Conference in Durban, South Africa disclosed that a significant number of homosexual and bisexual men with hiv “continue to engage in unprotected sex with people who have no idea they could be contracting HIV.”[4] Researchers from the University of California, San Francisco found that thirty-six percent of homosexuals engaging in unprotected oral, anal, failed to disclose that they were HIV positive to casual sex partners.
A CDC report revealed that, in 1997, 45 percent of homosexuals reporting having had unprotected anal intercourse during the previous six months did not know the HIV serostatus of all their sex partners. Even more alarming, among those who reported having had unprotected anal intercourse and multiple partners, 68 percent did not know the HIV serostatus of their partners."
The above means that people just like your friends are engaging in risky, potentially death defying behavior! They are not containing the potential for AIDS and STD’s, they are spreading it!
This is in fact killing them at a higher rate than the national average. How can anyone possibly consider this a good thing? And if it is not considered a good thing then why would anyone want to promote such a thing if not merely for the sake of social liberalism and political correctness?
"In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that in a study of a hundred-fifty-six males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years,
Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years.
Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.
In Male and Female Homosexuality, M. Saghir and E. Robins found that the average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years.
Unhealthy Aspects of “Monogamous” Homosexual Relationships. Even those homosexual relationships that are loosely termed “monogamous” do not necessarily result in healthier behavior.
The journal AIDS reported that men involved in relationships engaged in anal intercourse and oral-anal intercourse with greater frequency than those without a steady partner.[15] Anal intercourse has been linked to a host of bacterial and parasitical sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS.
The exclusivity of the relationship did not diminish the incidence of unhealthy sexual acts, which are commonplace among homosexuals. An English study published in the same issue of the journal AIDS concurred, finding that most “unsafe” sex acts among homosexuals occur in steady relationships."
The statistics reflect a serious problem which transcends age as well:
“In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al., found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. The most common response, given by 21.6 percent of the respondents, was of having a hundred-one to five hundred lifetime sex partners.”
Instead of pacifying the homosexual community why not actually try to help them?
Is runaway social liberalism and political correctness more important than the health and well being of this group of people?
Zeb, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. I agree that homosexuals are much more likely to engage in risky behaviors and bear the disatrous consequences. It is something to be addressed. I don’t know how. Those in the community are probably the best ones to address that. And I think there are intitiatives. There are gays trying to educate about safe sex and discouraging drug use and other risky behaviors. My point is that AIDS is a problem for heterosexuals–though less so–because they engage in the same risky behaviors. That certainly needs to be discouraged also.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Look closely at the statistics (in the last few posts I put up). You are not doing your “friends” or anyone else’s gay friends a favor by promoting that behavior. And if you had a friend who was an alcoholic you would in fact point to the statistics and try as hard as you could to stop him from engaging in that risky behavior.
[/quote]
Agree 100%. MORE than 100%. If I was encouraging risky behavior (like alcoholism, or sex with multiple partners without protection) then I would definitely be in the wrong. Only thing is, ZEB, none of my pals/loved ones are acting like that (as far as I know). You point to alcoholism as a dangerous behavior and I agree. You point to unsafe sex, lying about HIV status, etc. as dangerous behavior and I agree.
To take your analogy, what we are really talking about here is enjoying a few drinks (being gay) vs. being an alcoholic (going to the club and doing scary things in the bathrooms).
Analogically speaking (hehe I just made up a word), you are condemning someone for having a few drinks as an alcoholic. You are using statistics about alcoholics to make blanket statements about everybody who has a few drinks, but doesn’t necessarily end up passed out in a puddle of urine beside a dumpster behind Hooter’s.
NOW do you see what I’m getting at?
Those people who have a few drinks aren’t hurting anybody. They aren’t getting tanked and rolling their cars off of a cliff. We are talking about people who have their lives under control and are just trying to get along in this life just like you and me. What good reason can we have to begrudge them the ability to marry one another? Who is it gonna hurt? How is our world going to explode into a million pieces from this? WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG DEAL??
Appeal to tradition, pal. That’s the only good reason for being against gay marriage. And it’s not THAT good of a reason, either. Our traditions change all the time. Is all change bad?
[quote]terribleivan wrote:
More evidence that unnatural sexual use of our bodies is destructive.
[/quote]
LOL Are you sure you’re on the right website? Part of revelling in T-manitude involves doing unnatural things during sex…
“You want to put that where? Okay, fine… but what’s the spatula, the low-fat yogurt, and the life-size cardboard cut-out of Jennifer Aniston for?”
Do try and live a little, Ivan. You don’t want to die without any good stories to tell Charon the Boatman do you? 
Loves the sinner hates the sin,
Its there in the bible also that man should not lie with man.
I am not a homophobe. But that’s the bible stance and God’s
God allowed his crucifiction to love the sinner.
[quote]welshman wrote:
Loves the sinner hates the sin,
Its there in the bible also that man should not lie with man.
I am not a homophobe. But that’s the bible stance and God’s
God allowed his crucifiction to love the sinner.
[/quote]
Thanks for the rehash. We were all in danger of forgetting what a bunch of sinners the gays are. (ZEB-style eye roll)
Am I cool now? LOL