Power of Christ

[btm62]

You the only difference between Christians and non-Christians?

Christians are forgiven.

A good point I think.

Also ponder this fellow Christians, how did you come to be a Christian? Was it something you did? I’ll bet it was by the GRACE of God.

I’m the worst Christian in world. So was Peter. Peter the Rock. Its not about works and deeds, (lest any man should boast.)

Its about love.

That is what Christ was about. Its what he IS all about.

Its not important to be right and argue. Its important to love one another.

Peace.

[harris447]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
to preach to those unwilling to listen is actually against what God intended.

I would agree with your dear old Dad.

But when someone starts a CHRISTIAN THREAD if it is invaded by atheists/agonstics (from the outset) then Christians should simply pack up and move on.

There is no need to pack up and move on. There is also no need to start SEVERAL threads on religion on this forum if it is clear that the message is not being accepted. That is what has been said from the beginning. This has nothing to do with not wanting to talk about God and everything to do with what that scriptures is talking about. How many more ways does this need to be explained before you get it? This is not about just this one thread but the actions by some claiming they are “True Christians” over the last few weeks.

professor,

I am talking about THIS THREAD! I have never begun a Christian thread. However, when one was started by the name “Power Of Christ” I was naturally interested.

When someone else begins a thread entitled “Tattoos” I am not interested. Therefore, I don’t enter the thread throwing stones at the original poster. If I did do that I would be roundly chastized by my fellow forum members, and they would be right!

If allowed to continue under its original intent this would have been a very inspiring faith building thread for those of us in the Christian faith who wanted to participate. It was never allowed to progress however.

How on earth can you or any of your cohorts justify kicking the door in and crapping all over this thread?

JUST BECAUSE SOME ARE TIRED OF YET ANOTHER CHRISTIAN THREAD?

Not good enough-And I know you are smart enough to realize this!

Yet another stupid analogy.

The tattoo thread and this one are not equivalent. Had the tattoo thread been about the fact that people who had accepted tattoos into their life were better than non-inked people, then your analogy would be apt.

There is the real “rub.” YOU happen to think that Christians are stating that they are BETTER than you.

It’s sort of like you stating that I hate homosexuals when all I have actually stated was that I was agasinst the act.

You draw some very strange conclusions!

If the tattoo thread had further degenerated into numbskulls declaring themselves “truly tattooed” and others who did not believe EXACTLY AS THEY DID “false tattoo-ists”, thenyour metaphor would make more sense.

Yes, let’s talk about the “degneration” of the thread. Who did it and why?

It was begun by a Christian and the post was harmless. It was then attacked from the beginning by atheists and agnostics.

So, you guys did a good job and led the way in terms of degenerating the thread.

As I recall, there were several posts on the tattoo thread about people’s reasons for not getting tattoos. None of these posters were told they were going to hell.

Ah…and that’s why Christianity causes such divisivness. It is truly offensive in nature to those who are not Christian.

And THE reason that Jesus Christ was killed.

There is only one way.

If I believe in Jesus Christ and you don’t that means everytime you hear the word “Christian” you are thinking that we are “condemning.” Whether anyone even mentions the word “hell” or not, it seems to be what you are projecting that we are saying or implying.

For once our little exchange has proven fruitful.

[/quote]

Wow. Maybe you’re right: maybe it’s just me projecting.

You and your band of fundie cohorts have stated, again and again, that the only way to heaven is through accepting Jesus.

And I drew the conclusion that everyone else, ergo, would be going to hell! How foolish!

And you stated that homosexuals were sinners and that they should be converted into heterosexuals.

And I (and everyone else who had taken Logic 101) concluded that you came to the conclusion that you didn’t like homos and then found “facts” to back up your thesis!

Gosh, I wish everyone were as smart as you!

[terribleivan]

[quote]btm62 wrote:
You the only difference between Christians and non-Christians?

Christians are forgiven.

A good point I think.

Also ponder this fellow Christians, how did you come to be a Christian? Was it something you did? I’ll bet it was by the GRACE of God.

I’m the worst Christian in world. So was Peter. Peter the Rock. Its not about works and deeds, (lest any man should boast.)

Its about love.

That is what Christ was about. Its what he IS all about.

Its not important to be right and argue. Its important to love one another.

Peace.[/quote]

Your point about love is right on que.

But, I would suggest that there is also a time to fight for what is right. That is the reason Jesus cleared out the temple. Did he not love the people he chastised? I submit that he did. But, despite of his great love, he was sickened of the perversion that infiltrated the House of God.

Be ye angry and sin not.

Jesus did not sin when he cleared the temple. His anger was just. The anger that Christians feel when they see people who call themselves Christians doing ungodly things is justifiable, especially when these people try to defend their actions rather than repent.

Peace to you as well.

[jwillow]

[i]“Religion, or more accurately, the words of Jesus were very very simple. Follow the commandments and love they neighbor.” – vroom, 2006

“Jesus said to obey the fricken rules and treat people well.” – vroom, 2006

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary.” – Rabbi Hillel, around the time of Jesus[/i]

vroom, you have the wisdom of a Talmudic scholar, and your comments were the only ones in this entire thread worth remembering.

[terribleivan]

[quote]haney wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Isn’t that cherry picking also?

Revelation at its earliest dating was 64-67AD at its latest dating would be 90AD or later. The Cannon was not officially formed until the fourth century by the counil of nicea.

Also I think this is a clear indication you are taking this verse out of context unless the verse doesn’t really mean the book of revelations as John clearly indicates.

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book”

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,”

It’s kind of amazing how God, who sits outside of time and space, in his infinite power and wisdom put this Holy Book together, isn’t it?

That has nothing to do with it you are quoting those verses out of context. He is specifically referring to the book of Revelation not the entire Bible. If that were the case then you would not have had the council of nicea debating over which books belong and which ones don’t. It would have been a clear cut this is it. There is no other place in the Bible that says those words so it is specific in its context since the beggining of revelations tells John to write these words on a scroll.

Thanks for the verses. I believe you just helped support my claim that you either take it, or leave it. No cherry picking on my part

I didn’t give you those verses they are the same ones you used.
[/quote]

Oh, I see. Your logic would then conclude that a Christian is allowed to add and subtract from any book of the Bible, so long as that book is not Revelation.

Do you see how silly that sounds?

[Professor_X]

[quote]jwillow wrote:
[i]“Religion, or more accurately, the words of Jesus were very very simple. Follow the commandments and love they neighbor.” – vroom, 2006

“Jesus said to obey the fricken rules and treat people well.” – vroom, 2006

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary.” – Rabbi Hillel, around the time of Jesus[/i]

vroom, you have the wisdom of a Talmudic scholar, and your comments were the only ones in this entire thread worth remembering.[/quote]

You didn’t find the “You are not TRUE Christians” lines to be uplifting? Go figure.

[miniross]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
miniross wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
If you guys don’t like these threads, why do you read them? You can simply move on to something else.

Funny. None of you thought that way with the atheists thread.

In fact, we stayed the hell off the Christian thread until one of you figured you’d “spread the word”

I have no problem with Christians or any other religios creed.

But what I fucking hate is people that won’t shut the fuck up about it once in a while, and try to get others to convert. Once again, you are as bad as the Muslims that you claim to despise

Name the last time a Fundamental Christian blew up a bus, a building, or someone’s house…

You’ve got to be kidding…

They would if they weren’t so rich and had things to loose.

You might want to rethink that statement.

[/quote]

I think you know what i mean, in that 1) it has been found to be an effectual form of tactic
2) there are plenty of people ready to be conned after a lifetime of indoctrination
3)That to some, much like the animal rights brigade, they see it as a viable option. I can assure you that those who are upper middle class blowing themselves up are few and far between.

Being most BA’s are in western countries, with wealth (relatively), then i cant see anyone well off doing that themselves.

Or it may be that their system of indoctrination is better than other ones.

[haney]

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
haney wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Isn’t that cherry picking also?

Revelation at its earliest dating was 64-67AD at its latest dating would be 90AD or later. The Cannon was not officially formed until the fourth century by the counil of nicea.

Also I think this is a clear indication you are taking this verse out of context unless the verse doesn’t really mean the book of revelations as John clearly indicates.

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book”

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,”

It’s kind of amazing how God, who sits outside of time and space, in his infinite power and wisdom put this Holy Book together, isn’t it?

That has nothing to do with it you are quoting those verses out of context. He is specifically referring to the book of Revelation not the entire Bible. If that were the case then you would not have had the council of nicea debating over which books belong and which ones don’t. It would have been a clear cut this is it. There is no other place in the Bible that says those words so it is specific in its context since the beggining of revelations tells John to write these words on a scroll.

Thanks for the verses. I believe you just helped support my claim that you either take it, or leave it. No cherry picking on my part

I didn’t give you those verses they are the same ones you used.

Oh, I see. Your logic would then conclude that a Christian is allowed to add and subtract from any book of the Bible, so long as that book is not Revelation.

Do you see how silly that sounds?
[/quote]

Technically it has been done. In fact if you are reading the KJV your version has errors in it that were added and not corrected like some of our newer versions. Look at John 7:53-8:11 It isn’t found in the earliest mss we have. SO someone added it. I guess the curse of revelation with its plagues has come down on them. In that note though I hope you have never been taught from it, nor have you ever used it. You would be guilty of using false doctrine.

The truth is you are stretching a very specific verse to meet your dogma. Which is bad interpretation all together.

And no I don’t think we can add when we want, but the verse you are using is only a curse against that book (revelation). It literally says this book. The greek even uses a word that means (scroll) How many scrolls did john write revelation on? It would be one. So the curse, and that verse would imply to that book.

[miniross]

[quote]btm62 wrote:
You the only difference between Christians and non-Christians?

Christians are forgiven.

A good point I think.

Also ponder this fellow Christians, how did you come to be a Christian? Was it something you did? I’ll bet it was by the GRACE of God.

I’m the worst Christian in world. So was Peter. Peter the Rock. Its not about works and deeds, (lest any man should boast.)

Its about love.

That is what Christ was about. Its what he IS all about.

Its not important to be right and argue. Its important to love one another.

Peace.[/quote]

What if you love to argue?

Does that count.

Also, you are either a christian or not.

Are you saying that you are a debauched christian, because that would make you normal!

[terribleivan]

[quote]jwillow wrote:
[i]“Religion, or more accurately, the words of Jesus were very very simple. Follow the commandments and love they neighbor.” – vroom, 2006

“Jesus said to obey the fricken rules and treat people well.” – vroom, 2006

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary.” – Rabbi Hillel, around the time of Jesus[/i]

vroom, you have the wisdom of a Talmudic scholar, and your comments were the only ones in this entire thread worth remembering.[/quote]

LOL - brilliant satire!

[DPH]

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
The anger that Christians feel when they see people who call themselves Christians doing ungodly things
[/quote]

please show me a Christian that is without sin…

I bet that you have done ungodly things and other Christians were angry with you too…

do you feel that you should be called a psuedo-Christian for sinning?

is justifiable, especially when these people try to defend their actions rather than repent.

people should repent instead of justifying their actions…no problem with that…

gee, I wonder if you calling other Christians psuedo-Christians because you disagree with them sinful?

[terribleivan]

[quote]haney wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
haney wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
Isn’t that cherry picking also?

Revelation at its earliest dating was 64-67AD at its latest dating would be 90AD or later. The Cannon was not officially formed until the fourth century by the counil of nicea.

Also I think this is a clear indication you are taking this verse out of context unless the verse doesn’t really mean the book of revelations as John clearly indicates.

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book”

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,”

It’s kind of amazing how God, who sits outside of time and space, in his infinite power and wisdom put this Holy Book together, isn’t it?

That has nothing to do with it you are quoting those verses out of context. He is specifically referring to the book of Revelation not the entire Bible. If that were the case then you would not have had the council of nicea debating over which books belong and which ones don’t. It would have been a clear cut this is it. There is no other place in the Bible that says those words so it is specific in its context since the beggining of revelations tells John to write these words on a scroll.

Thanks for the verses. I believe you just helped support my claim that you either take it, or leave it. No cherry picking on my part

I didn’t give you those verses they are the same ones you used.

Oh, I see. Your logic would then conclude that a Christian is allowed to add and subtract from any book of the Bible, so long as that book is not Revelation.

Do you see how silly that sounds?

Technically it has been done. In fact if you are reading the KJV your version has errors in it that were added and not corrected like some of our newer versions. Look at John 7:53-8:11 It isn’t found in the earliest mss we have. SO someone added it. I guess the curse of revelation with its plagues has come down on them. In that note though I hope you have never been taught from it, nor have you ever used it. You would be guilty of using false doctrine.

The truth is you are stretching a very specific verse to meet your dogma. Which is bad interpretation all together.

And no I don’t think we can add when we want, but the verse you are using is only a curse against that book (revelation). It literally says this book. The greek even uses a word that means (scroll) How many scrolls did john write revelation on? It would be one. So the curse, and that verse would imply to that book.[/quote]

If you are using newer translations, I would suggest that you are the one who has the flawed translation. A good case in point - look for the name Lucifer in your Bible. It doesn’t exist anymore. Why would it be gone, I wonder? It’s pretty important considering it is the name of the fallen angel.

But, that is a whole new topic.

BTW - what is the greek word used? Please provide it, and provide your study that shows I used it wrong. If I am wrong, I am happy to learn from it. But, I do find it interesting that you come from nowhere to jump on the bandwagon. It’s almost like you have a hidden agenda.

[terribleivan]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jwillow wrote:
[i]“Religion, or more accurately, the words of Jesus were very very simple. Follow the commandments and love they neighbor.” – vroom, 2006

“Jesus said to obey the fricken rules and treat people well.” – vroom, 2006

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary.” – Rabbi Hillel, around the time of Jesus[/i]

vroom, you have the wisdom of a Talmudic scholar, and your comments were the only ones in this entire thread worth remembering.

You didn’t find the “You are not TRUE Christians” lines to be uplifting? Go figure.[/quote]

Oh, profx - some day you may experience the joy of actually sharing the Gospel. Someday…maybe.

[terribleivan]

[quote]DPH wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
So very funny. Let’s look at this thread.

It started with an example of the Power of Christ in the Christian life. A great example of a strong Christian overcoming adversity and trial.

Now, it is attacked by people who call themselves Christians but have no evidence in their life (as far as we can see on the forum, at least). Why are these pseudo-Christians so offended? And, how seriously should we take these pseudo-Christians?

the only problem I have with you and this thread is your insistance on calling people who have a disagreement with you not ‘true’ Christians or your new slogan ‘pseudo’ Christians…

it’s very insulting and you know it…that’s why you keep saying it over and over again…because you are getting off on being insulting towards Christians that disagree with you…it makes you feel superior…

why not just say “Hey, I know you guys are Christians, but I disagree with what you are saying. Here’s why (references to scripture and your thoughts for thinking the way you do).”?

you could tell me “Hey DPH, I think you’re very far from the Christian ideal, in fact I think you’re a scum bag, here’s why I think so…”…I wouldn’t disagree with that…in fact I know that I’m far from the Christian ideal, but if you’d know me when I was in my teens and twenties you’d also see that, even though I am far from the ideal, I have come along way from my rebel rousing days…

so why the insults? why not simply point out that you disagree with other Christians on here, give your reasons, and leave it at that?[/quote]

Don’t think I won’t give you credit where credit is due. I do think you provide a very poor example of the Christian faith. That was evident in your very first post. It’s almost humorous that you would mock God yet cling so tightly to the Christian name.

But, then again, I do not know your struggles. Perhaps you have come from a rough background. Maybe you were a serial rapist and murder. If that were the case, then maybe you have grown by leaps and bounds. Only you (and God) know that.

On that note, I’ll challange you to live the Christian life as a saved Christian should. You tell me you’ve read the NIV from cover to cover - now live it. The challange has been laid out. Do you accept?

[haney]

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
If you are using newer translations, I would suggest that you are the one who has the flawed translation. A good case in point - look for the name Lucifer in your Bible. It doesn’t exist anymore. Why would it be gone, I wonder? It’s pretty important considering it is the name of the fallen angel.

But, that is a whole new topic.

BTW - what is the greek word used? Please provide it, and provide your study that shows I used it wrong. If I am wrong, I am happy to learn from it. But, I do find it interesting that you come from nowhere to jump on the bandwagon. It’s almost like you have a hidden agenda.
[/quote]
I use all translations I can get my hands on. I still would like to see you handle the john 7:53-8:11 problem before you start picking on other translations.

As for looking for lucifer every version I looked up had that one reference to him (Isa 4:12)

Vers 18 uses this word for the greek
G975
βιβλίον
biblion
Thayer Definition:

1. a small book, a scroll, a written document
2. a sheet on which something has been written
   2a) a bill of divorcement
   Part of Speech: noun neuter
   A Related Word by Thayer?s/Strong?s Number: a diminutive of G976
   Citing in TDNT: 1:617, 106

verse 19 uses
G976
βίβλος
biblos
bib’-los
Properly the inner bark of the papyrus plant, that is, (by implication) a sheet or scroll of writing: - book.

I didn’t jump on the band wagon. What got me going is your interpretation of that verse. I have said it in plenty of other threads. Christians don’t know how to read their Bible and that is why we are having the issues that you are bringing up.

[btm62]

[quote]miniross wrote:
btm62 wrote:
You the only difference between Christians and non-Christians?

Christians are forgiven.

A good point I think.

Also ponder this fellow Christians, how did you come to be a Christian? Was it something you did? I’ll bet it was by the GRACE of God.

I’m the worst Christian in world. So was Peter. Peter the Rock. Its not about works and deeds, (lest any man should boast.)

Its about love.

That is what Christ was about. Its what he IS all about.

Its not important to be right and argue. Its important to love one another.

Peace.

What if you love to argue?

Does that count.

Also, you are either a christian or not.

Are you saying that you are a debauched christian, because that would make you normal![/quote]

If you love to argue, you are in the right thread…obviously.

Apparently you think of Christianity like golf, either ya like it or ya don’t. Great statement. Shows complete mastery of the obvious.

No, not a debauched Christian, just a sinner. That makes me normal. Being forgiven is the prize.

Did you disagree with anything specific in my post or were you just reveling in your wit and smartassery?

[terribleivan]

[quote]haney wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
If you are using newer translations, I would suggest that you are the one who has the flawed translation. A good case in point - look for the name Lucifer in your Bible. It doesn’t exist anymore. Why would it be gone, I wonder? It’s pretty important considering it is the name of the fallen angel.

But, that is a whole new topic.

BTW - what is the greek word used? Please provide it, and provide your study that shows I used it wrong. If I am wrong, I am happy to learn from it. But, I do find it interesting that you come from nowhere to jump on the bandwagon. It’s almost like you have a hidden agenda.

I use all translations I can get my hands on. I still would like to see you handle the john 7:53-8:11 problem before you start picking on other translations.

As for looking for lucifer every version I looked up had that one reference to him (Isa 4:12)

Vers 18 uses this word for the greek
G975
βιβλίον
biblion
Thayer Definition:

1. a small book, a scroll, a written document
2. a sheet on which something has been written
   2a) a bill of divorcement
   Part of Speech: noun neuter
   A Related Word by Thayer?s/Strong?s Number: a diminutive of G976
   Citing in TDNT: 1:617, 106

verse 19 uses
G976
βίβλος
biblos
bib’-los
Properly the inner bark of the papyrus plant, that is, (by implication) a sheet or scroll of writing: - book.

I didn’t jump on the band wagon. What got me going is your interpretation of that verse. I have said it in plenty of other threads. Christians don’t know how to read their Bible and that is why we are having the issues that you are bringing up.

[/quote]

[btm62]

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
btm62 wrote:
You the only difference between Christians and non-Christians?

Christians are forgiven.

A good point I think.

Also ponder this fellow Christians, how did you come to be a Christian? Was it something you did? I’ll bet it was by the GRACE of God.

I’m the worst Christian in world. So was Peter. Peter the Rock. Its not about works and deeds, (lest any man should boast.)

Its about love.

That is what Christ was about. Its what he IS all about.

Its not important to be right and argue. Its important to love one another.

Peace.

Your point about love is right on que.

But, I would suggest that there is also a time to fight for what is right. That is the reason Jesus cleared out the temple. Did he not love the people he chastised? I submit that he did. But, despite of his great love, he was sickened of the perversion that infiltrated the House of God.

Be ye angry and sin not.

Jesus did not sin when he cleared the temple. His anger was just. The anger that Christians feel when they see people who call themselves Christians doing ungodly things is justifiable, especially when these people try to defend their actions rather than repent.

Peace to you as well.[/quote]

I think that it is not our place to chastise. I am sickened also brother, but I have sin in my own temple I need to throw out, before I try to go and clean out someone elses. We don’t know the scars and woes and secrets of those we judge. God gives his grace to whom he will. It is a gift. You are quite right to shout from the rooftops about this great gift. I think differently about chastigation. Look at its effects here in just this thread. I don’t see it being effective. Instead of intelligent discourse it seems to promote nothing but a back and forth jab fest. Who is that helping? Fight for what is right, you bet, I think different “weapons” are better called for.

[jwillow]

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
jwillow wrote:
[i]“Religion, or more accurately, the words of Jesus were very very simple. Follow the commandments and love they neighbor.” – vroom, 2006

“Jesus said to obey the fricken rules and treat people well.” – vroom, 2006

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary.” – Rabbi Hillel, around the time of Jesus[/i]

vroom, you have the wisdom of a Talmudic scholar, and your comments were the only ones in this entire thread worth remembering.

LOL - brilliant satire![/quote]

It wasn’t intended as satire. I’m saying that Vroom did a great job of summarizing the teachings of Jesus.

I’m also pointing out, indirectly, that those teachings are not unique to Christianity. There’s a reason we talk about “Judeo-Christian values”: Rabbi Hillel’s statement can be found in the Old Testament (for example, Leviticus 19:18) as well as throughout the teachings of Jesus.

And of course many other religions and philosophical traditions teach the same thing, including (gasp) secular humanism. The nice thing about these latter people is they generally don’t tell you that you’re going to hell if you don’t subscribe to their particular supernatural beliefs.

[haney]

[quote]btm62 wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
btm62 wrote:
You the only difference between Christians and non-Christians?

Christians are forgiven.

A good point I think.

Also ponder this fellow Christians, how did you come to be a Christian? Was it something you did? I’ll bet it was by the GRACE of God.

I’m the worst Christian in world. So was Peter. Peter the Rock. Its not about works and deeds, (lest any man should boast.)

Its about love.

That is what Christ was about. Its what he IS all about.

Its not important to be right and argue. Its important to love one another.

Peace.

Your point about love is right on que.

But, I would suggest that there is also a time to fight for what is right. That is the reason Jesus cleared out the temple. Did he not love the people he chastised? I submit that he did. But, despite of his great love, he was sickened of the perversion that infiltrated the House of God.

Be ye angry and sin not.

Jesus did not sin when he cleared the temple. His anger was just. The anger that Christians feel when they see people who call themselves Christians doing ungodly things is justifiable, especially when these people try to defend their actions rather than repent.

Peace to you as well.

I think that it is not our place to chastise. I am sickened also brother, but I have sin in my own temple I need to throw out, before I try to go and clean out someone elses. We don’t know the scars and woes and secrets of those we judge. God gives his grace to whom he will. It is a gift. You are quite right to shout from the rooftops about this great gift. I think differently about chastigation. Look at its effects here in just this thread. I don’t see it being effective. Instead of intelligent discourse it seems to promote nothing but a back and forth jab fest. Who is that helping? Fight for what is right, you bet, I think different “weapons” are better called for.[/quote]

Great post! my thoughts on all this thread exactly