One of us is correct. If I am wrong about this – I live a good life and I am blessed by what I believe. Then I die.
However, if you are wrong, you live your life your own way, then you die and face a Holy God that will say “Depart from me, ye who work inquity into everlasting fire. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Are you sure you want to chance it?
Is plagiarism a mortal sin?Isn’t this Pascal’s Wager?
Don’t see any of the biblical quotes used in the posts not being acknowledged…or paraphrased and getting passed on as the writer’s own.
Or maybe I just got the wrong impression…[/quote]
I would say that is part of what is known as Pascal’s Wager. However, what does it matter? I am sure that people could think of this type of reasoning on their own. You know, the Bible says that “there is nothing new under the sun…” I am certain that people used this form of logical argument way before Pascal used it.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Time to bump this thread. We have had a lack of discussion about how to get saved from the eternal torments of hell.
Spectacular trolling job. Really, my hat’s off.
Burn in hell,
Irish[/quote]
Sorry to disappoint you but I will not be going there. I am saved through the blood of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior and thus I am bound for the Promised Land!
How about you, Irish? Doesn’t sound from your choice of language and style that you are much of a Christian? Where will you be spending Eternity?
I am going to pray for you especially today and tomorrow that your eyes will be opened to God’s truth. I will also mention you at church at our prayer meeting tomorrow evening. We will pray that you will not end up in the Lake of Fire.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Time to bump this thread. We have had a lack of discussion about how to get saved from the eternal torments of hell.
Spectacular trolling job. Really, my hat’s off. [/quote]
Wait a minute! What in the world are you talking about?
Someone can’t troll their own thread! Oh, of course, unless they are a Christian. That’s right…just like with the 1st Admendment, the rules don’t apply to Christians.
“In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.”
“I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well.”
It’s like a training ground for TBN in here…if all goes well one day we “unbelievers”(that is the term of choice,isn’t it?)will be able to tell all our nearest and dearest:“We knew him when he was still in training,look how far he’s come!Always knew he would have his own show!”…
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
It’s like a training ground for TBN in here…if all goes well one day we “unbelievers”(that is the term of choice,isn’t it?)will be able to tell all our nearest and dearest:“We knew him when he was still in training,look how far he’s come!Always knew he would have his own show!”…[/quote]
Actually, according to God’s Word, since you have been told the truth of how to get saved, you are more accountable than you were before since you are now directly rejecting God’s Truth. Therefore, your eternal destiny is even in more peril than it was prior.
However, God’s gracious offer of salvation ever stands to wipe away even that transgression and restore you to a right relationship to Himself.
Accept the free gift of salvation that is only in Jesus Christ (Jesus the Messiah).
Do so before it is too late. We are all just one heartbeat away from eternity…
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
It’s like a training ground for TBN in here…if all goes well one day we “unbelievers”(that is the term of choice,isn’t it?)will be able to tell all our nearest and dearest:“We knew him when he was still in training,look how far he’s come!Always knew he would have his own show!”…[/quote]
Actually, arguing with steve0 is already exactly like talking to your TV set.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
It’s like a training ground for TBN in here…if all goes well one day we “unbelievers”(that is the term of choice,isn’t it?)will be able to tell all our nearest and dearest:“We knew him when he was still in training,look how far he’s come!Always knew he would have his own show!”…
Actually, arguing with steve0 is already exactly like talking to your TV set.[/quote]
Wow – is your T.V. set a Christian? When did your T.V. set get saved?
Okay, I hate to break it to you, but you can’t have it both ways. Either the Bible is LITERAL or it is INTERPRETED. If it is INTERPRETED, then you don’t actually know which INTERPRETATION is correct.
Anyway, since Zeb has given us an INTERPRETATION he is apparently in opposition to your viewpoints. Maybe the two of you should battle it out?
Zeb,
Since we are playing with INTERPRETATIONS here let me offer some of my own.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Here are some neat scientific facts in the Bible (from wayofthemaster.com):
At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: “He…hangs the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7). [/quote]
No, this is not talking about modern concepts of space. In the beginning there was nothing. Nothing. Where else could the Earth be hung, during the act of creation – which is what is being referred to if there was in fact nothing?
This item is neither pro nor con. It just uses the same terminology.
We don’t know what this is a reference to. Realistically, it is very easy to imagine that if you stand on a hill you will see a circle around you. Why should we give it any more of a significant interpretation than that? Because we know it would not support modern science if we didn’t?
What Christopher Columbus was or was not inspired by has very little to do with the issue at hand.
[quote]God told Job in 1500 B.C.: “Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?” (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech.
But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when “British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing” (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia). [/quote]
Wow. Nice stretch. If God can appear in a burning bush, I don’t imagine there is any reason he can’t appear via lightning, thunder or any other impressive natural apparition. I would imagine lightning and thunder were feared and powerful events.
Heck, even today, many people fear lightning and thunder. Again, you stretch the interpretation in a major way which is totally unsupported by anything in the documents.
[quote]Job 38:19 asks, “Where is the way where light dwells?” Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a “way,” traveling at 186,000 miles per second.
Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: “When the morning stars sang together…” [/quote]
What bullshit. I’m sorry, but you don’t just get to make up any old shit and claim it is referred to. I’d like to know what the other stars are, in the morning, since we only have one?
Anyone who lives in the outdoors, will feel the cycle of the elements, the cycle of seasons or whatever other cycles are present first-hand. Why invent some fantasy about greater cycles when there is neither reason nor a any hint of such in the original texts?
Oh please. This is just plain sad. You can’t call heaven “space” and maintain a literal interpretation that will agree with Steveo. Steveo maintains that heaven and hell are real entities – so equating heaven with space must be blasphemy.
Now, the fact that people have senses, means that anything we write about or perceive is likely to be expressed in terms of our senses. There is no need to imagine that it was a prediction of future science or any such complete and utter nonsense.
No, this does not in any way need to refer to atoms. If you want to talk about the Bible and creation, God made things out of NOTHING. Atoms are not NOTHING.
LOL. Look, if you are busy cutting the skin off babies penises for a living, you are going to figure out that there is a day that works better than others. If this is a true fact, I’m not sure science was heavily motivated to investigate it… which would be why it wasn’t “discovered”. I mean, I don’t recall anyone ever thinking what day to circumcise a baby was an important scientific question.
Please, you are offering wild interpretations of things that do not really support such interpretations. It would be absolutely stupid to assume that people performing circumcisions would not notice that bleeding was different based on the age.
Again, this is nonsense. A lot of whacky health practices have come and gone over time. However, given that even three thousand years ago, people hunted animals or saw other people die of bloody wounds, it isn’t much of a stretch to draw the conclusion that blood is necessary to live.
You are really giving people no credit for the power of simple observation of their surroundings. The people that wrote the Bible wrote about their perceptions and their beliefs… and you have to try to interpret such things by putting yourself in their shoes at the time. That is how to have even a remote chance of getting the interpretation right.
[quote]Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers.
This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: “And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean” (Leviticus 15:13). [/quote]
Many things are learned and forgotten over and over again in the course of history. My grandmother has folk knowledge, non-religious mind you, that I don’t. Some of her rules deal with the safe handling of food that people learned over time… which modern people don’t know, because we have modern conveniences.
It is no amazing feat for people to figure out that being clean is both more pleasing to others and quite possibly healthier as well. In particular, given the amount of death that people would be in touch with at that time, because they had to kill their own livestock and so forth, they would easily associate bad smells with dead, decaying and rotting garbage – which would not be trucked away to the local dump but left where it layed to be eaten by flies and other animals.
Please. Get serious.
[quote]Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under “running water.”
"During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives.
Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine)." [/quote]
Wasn’t the plague spread by fleas on rats? Anyway, again, the fact that Bible had things to say about health which are readily observable to people at the time and easily forgotten over the centuries doesn’t mean there was anything more powerful than human observation going on.
We observe things around us all the time and draw conclusions. Why should we assume that cultures that had writing did not have the power to draw observation and preserve knowledge as well?
This is probably more a reflection of how out of whack things will be at the time of the second coming. However, out of all of the material quoted this is the only one that doesn’t seem to be absolute bunk at first glance.
Look, you don’t have to be a literalist to believe in Jesus or be a Christian. There are a lot of important messages in the Bible and we have to work hard and do our best to determine what they really are.
Ignorantly picking certain interpretations over others and then claiming everything else is wrong and that everyone else is going to burn in hell is not appropriate or useful.
Some of you have been asking me about my thoughts on the age of the Earth and other matters of creation science. Since I am no expert, I offer the following link to those who can do a better job explaining these things:
Please browse the website and read some of the articles before you come back and post. The people behind this ministry are, in fact, very credible scientists who believe the Bible and can explain things from a Biblical perspective.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Please browse the website and read some of the articles before you come back and post. The people behind this ministry are, in fact, very credible scientists who believe the Bible and can explain things from a Biblical perspective.
I did a quick check, not of the articles themselves, but of the various authors, to see what peer-reviewed papers they had published in recent years.
Unfortunately, the answer appears to be none. I couldn’t find a single paper from any of these guys that had been published outside of their “institute.”
It’s a nice little incestuous system, where you present your “papers” to your closed little circle of like-minded “scientist” friends and then you all pat yourselves on the back while singing “Allelujah! Praise BE to the LORD, brotha!”
For those of you who’d like to check for yourself, here are the names of the various authors:
John Morris, Ph.D.
Henry Morris, Ph.D.
Henry Morris III, Th.D. (Same guy?)
Frank Sherwin, M.S.
William Hoesch, M.S.
David F. Coppedge
Duane Gish, Ph.D.
Now, if they want to call themselves “scientists” they should follow the usual practices of science. Setting up some parallel system to publish “science” backed up up by Bible verse doesn’t really cut it.
Calling it “science” after gutting out all of the “weeding out” mechanism of actual science is both dishonest and useless. I guess bearing false witness is OK if it keeps the sheep from straying away.
I’m sure it will readily convince Bible literalist desperately looking for the tiniest little scrap of “evidence” that might support their fantasy world. Just tell them what they want to hear and they won’t care if both the evidence and the science is entirely fabricated.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Great post and great comeback! I haven’t laughed this hard reading one of these threads since last years “Rate my bodyfat % with a shoe” thread.
Excellent!
[/quote]
I thought it would only be fair, since I laugh at nearly everything you write.
[quote]pookie wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Please browse the website and read some of the articles before you come back and post. The people behind this ministry are, in fact, very credible scientists who believe the Bible and can explain things from a Biblical perspective.
[/quote]
Abstract
The geologic effects which occurred are uncertain, but certainly earth materials were created and energized when the “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
Abstract
Exciting new developments in RATE projects are confirming our basic hypothesis: that God drastically speeded up decay rates of long half-life nuclei during the Genesis Flood and other brief periods in the earth’s short history.
Abstract
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).
Why Did God Give the Rainbow Sign?
by John Morris, Ph.D.
It was into this unstable world Noah and his family was placed… And every time they saw a majestic rainbow it would remind them of the security they have in Him.
Is this a paradoy website or are they actually trying to pass this off as science?
These “scientist” don’t even understand how to write a basic Abstract. Quoting a verse from Genesis is NOT AN ABSTRACT!
If they had spent, oh, 10 seconds, googling how to write one, this is what they would have found.
"An abstract is a single paragraph summary of your experiment. It is a highly structured writing exercise … it should contain an introduction, methods, results and conclusions.
Parts of the Abstract
Title: The title should be short, but descriptive. It should indicate the relationship or question you investigated.
General topic: Write one sentence describing the general topic to be investigated and why it is important
Specific Question or Relationship: Write one or two sentences describing the specific question you are addressing or relationship you are investigating with this investigation.
Method: Write one or two sentences describing how you did the investigation.
Results: Write one or two sentences explaining what you found out. Be as specific as possible. State only your main point(s).
Conclusions: Write a single sentence that summarizes what you found out about the general topic, question or relationship that you investigated."
Unfortunately, SteveO, these “Abstracts” contain no details about procedure, methodology, experiments, controls, results, or anything else because they are not science.
Then again, maybe they’re onto something. Doing no experiments, having no peer review, no methodology, no controls and no accountability certainly makes it easier to finish your “work” and get back to reading the bible.
[quote]
Unfortunately, SteveO, these “Abstracts” contain no details about procedure, methodology, experiments, controls, results, or anything else because they are not science.[/quote]
I think the main idea here is that if something supports Steveo’s viewpoint it is inherently correct, just because…
[quote]futuredave wrote:
pookie wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
Please browse the website and read some of the articles before you come back and post. The people behind this ministry are, in fact, very credible scientists who believe the Bible and can explain things from a Biblical perspective.
Abstract
The geologic effects which occurred are uncertain, but certainly earth materials were created and energized when the “Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
Abstract
Exciting new developments in RATE projects are confirming our basic hypothesis: that God drastically speeded up decay rates of long half-life nuclei during the Genesis Flood and other brief periods in the earth’s short history.
Abstract
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).
Why Did God Give the Rainbow Sign?
by John Morris, Ph.D.
It was into this unstable world Noah and his family was placed… And every time they saw a majestic rainbow it would remind them of the security they have in Him.
Is this a paradoy website or are they actually trying to pass this off as science?
These “scientist” don’t even understand how to write a basic Abstract. Quoting a verse from Genesis is NOT AN ABSTRACT!
If they had spent, oh, 10 seconds, googling how to write one, this is what they would have found.
"An abstract is a single paragraph summary of your experiment. It is a highly structured writing exercise … it should contain an introduction, methods, results and conclusions.
Parts of the Abstract
Title: The title should be short, but descriptive. It should indicate the relationship or question you investigated.
General topic: Write one sentence describing the general topic to be investigated and why it is important
Specific Question or Relationship: Write one or two sentences describing the specific question you are addressing or relationship you are investigating with this investigation.
Method: Write one or two sentences describing how you did the investigation.
Results: Write one or two sentences explaining what you found out. Be as specific as possible. State only your main point(s).
Conclusions: Write a single sentence that summarizes what you found out about the general topic, question or relationship that you investigated."
Unfortunately, SteveO, these “Abstracts” contain no details about procedure, methodology, experiments, controls, results, or anything else because they are not science.
Then again, maybe they’re onto something. Doing no experiments, having no peer review, no methodology, no controls and no accountability certainly makes it easier to finish your “work” and get back to reading the bible.[/quote]
Cry all you want, but why don’t you refute the facts of what they write, not where they published it? Whould DiVinci be rejected as a scientist today (if he could come back) because he never published?
These men have written and published many excellent scientific resources. Their approach, however, begins with the fact that God’s Word is correct and therefore science is the study of God’s Creation. However, that doesn’t remove the science from it.
Anyway, I put the website out there for anyone interested. If you wish to still believe that you have come from a monkey and that everything is just a random process with no deeper, more fulfilling meaning, go right ahead. We will all know the truth the second after we die.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
These men have written and published many excellent scientific resources. Their approach, however, begins with the fact that God’s Word is correct and therefore science is the study of God’s Creation. However, that doesn’t remove the science from it.[/quote]
LOL!
Why don’t you realize that “science” is a word that has meaning. You can’t just pretend it means whatever you like without having people laugh at you for being stupid.
Religion is a tool for mind control developed by the Illuminati to continue to generate fear, which is necessary for the survival of the illusion of separation, the five-sense prison we are trapped within.
