Portland's Inequality Tax

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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Okay, so we agree insurance shouldn’t pay for pre-existing conditions, and that people who already have problems should have to pay for the problems they already have.

And while what you are proposing sounds reasonable on the surface there are still going to be huge logistical problems. Whether a treatment is a direct result of the pre-existing condition or is a new complication is going to be impossible to determine. And as I said before, with administrative costs for the “insurance”, you’ve now increased the amount of money it takes for the sick people to get care.

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Something like Insurance for catastrophic events only and all other services paid at the time of service. Maybe a tax deduction for preventative care actions. There’s basically no competition in healthcare.

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Our entire system is progressive and taxes unequally.

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Denied insurance? I wouldn’t propose anything.
Go back before Obamacare and really look at how at many people were denied insurance. Most of the 30 million that were uninsured didn’t want insurance. Why would a healthy 20yr old want health insurance? It doesn’t make financial sense. Should they want to be safeguarded there were high deductible, low premium plans that reflected the market.
I understand how you feel, and most of America felt. We don’t want sick people to suffer and die without help. In a free society it is incumbent on the individual to take action and not the state. That’s why we have great charities and Catholic hospitals that do not deny care. Too often instead of doing the right thing, we would rather force someone else to do it for us.

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Thanks TB. The reason I ask is because there are so many factors I was just surprised you made such a firm declaration. Undoubtedly CEO pay has risen at a greater rate than the average worker. I don’t think many if anyone has disputed that. I also understand what you mean about value generation now vs. then. My only caveat would be to wonder how much inflation and globalization have played a role in this situation.

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This is an interesting point. We now force every American no matter their life choices, to be insured to essentially pay for those that get sick. It parallels social security, in that, the young pay for the retirement of the old and much lik SS it’s unsustainable as total population output declines.

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Come on, man… People are arguing against government mandated salary caps and minimum. It has nothing to do with being rah rah for corporations. I bet most of us don’t even work for a C corproate. I work for an LLC…

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It’s amazing to me how people with very little managed to travel across the Atlantic and later the full breadth of the United States to create a better life while people today with all of the social benefits we pay for can’t relocate to find work.

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It is a de-facto tax on being and staying healthy. It is a fine for keeping yourself healthy.

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Treco read a book by the name of Bell Curve. It specifically addresses this. While IQ appears to be a precursor for jobs such as lawyer, doctor, engineer, it doesn’t not limit the effort that one places into their job. I know pipe fitters and electricians that make over 100k a year because they are excellent tradesman. The pipe fitter started his own outfit last year and makes significant more now. at their own admission, they don’t want additional responsibility and never have. They are content with their lifestyle (and have been since before they cleared 6 figures)

I’m 26, and my monthly health insurance cost is ~$1400, last year was ~$1100. Neither myself or my wife use $1100 of benefits a year.

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We can agree to disagree. This simply isn’t true. You see this in healthcare everyday.

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Not sure what data you had to support this statement. The GAO found denial rates averaging between 11-24% (though they only surveyed 6 states I believe) further, if you were denied, you had to put that on your application for a different insurance company. Basically damning you

From -
GAO-11-268 Private Health Insurance: Data on Application and Coverage …

You understand almost every hospital provides charity care right? Not just Catholic Hospitals.
The burden of people without health insurance is passed on to us one way or another. In fact, that’s how most hospitals maintain non-profit status. But yeah, we can agree to disagree as well.

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You can talk feelings and wishes all you want. All of the well-intentioned, feel-good, stick-it-to-the-man kinda policies don’t produce good outcomes just because they resonate with the common man or go along with an anti-corporate left-wing narrative. In fact, it is pretty easy to see the track record of failure when you look at how these things play out over the long term.

That’s why we talk policy and the reasoning behind it. So you can fuck off with this nonsense. Your side tried the “conservatives are heartless, racist monsters” tact, tried it REALLY hard, and it is being rejected by Americans in the recent sweeping victories for Republicans. I, like most people you’re painting with that brush, am interested in the best possible outcome for everyone and I don’t see any way in hell how a policy like this inequality tax gets us there. That’s what we’re talking about here.

I know a lot of Joes. I live in a Joe town. I work at a business with hundreds of Joes. Joe doesn’t need or want hand-outs. Joe might like the idea of knocking the CEO down a peg or two, but that’s not going to help Joe and Joe knows it. Joe needs opportunities to succeed.

I know Joes that have done really well for themselves. I know Joes who haven’t. Brains is certainly a factor, but the common denominator is usually good character, good work ethic and a willingness to show up. Of course, the other major factor is when Joe gets good at something that someone else wants to give him money for. The Joes I know who don’t do well might be great bass players, funny joke tellers, really fun people to grab a drink with, world-class joint-rollers or really good-looking, but nobody is lining up to give them their money for any of this stuff.

Now the Joe I know who made the un-glamorous decision to pursue a career in plumbing and spent 10 years building his business up, he’s doing really well. The Joe I know who busts his ass doing dock installation and removal in the summer and snow clearing in the winter goes home with $600 cash in his pockets most days when the work is in-season. The Joe I know who spent 9 years in prison is making bank as a Harley mechanic today. Again, these are all people who maybe didn’t “follow their dreams”, but followed a path that yielded a skill set that others find value in.

Here’s a parting question for you and the other left-leaning posters.

What is an opportunity, and where do they come from?

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Treco’s whole rant is confusing to me. He supporters Trump.

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I’ve never even sniffed 100k.

I just know that If I even want a chance to, our government has to stop squeezing every nook and cranny of our population for every drop of cash it decides we don’t need and from every business that “you didn’t build”.

I actually have all of the equipment to start a small welding business, gotten piece by piece over the last few years, and some decent relationships with a couple of machine shops. I’m just afraid to actually give it a legitimate go knowing I’m going to get scalped from every possible angle.

Every small business owner that I’ve asked has said the exact same thing- Don’t do it. It is not worth it.

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Yes, it was an example.

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I could see this working. It’s interesting because the competition in healthcare is on the hospital level. Insurance companies negotiate with providers and vice versa to basically set whatever price they want. If your insurer is the bingest one in said state, then they have free reign.

Interstate competition could work but it could also provide more opportunities for collusion among various companies.

However, I think the simplest way to encourage competition would be to encourage providers to create their own practices again. Regulation and paperwork makes doctors not want to do private practice, encourages large practice groups, and ultimately, favored nation clauses between insurers and practice groups.

It’s a big mess.

I think health savings accounts are more along the lines of what you’re encouraging? That could work but they dont do much for people that are just getting by. Especially people like my generation that have student loans out the wazoo. But that’s a different conversation.

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In Dallas County, TX; a state that didn’t expand medicare. Dallas county spends more on indigent healthcare then every other county expense combined. We all pay one way or the other.

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Not what was being discussed.

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First I will say - I am not familiar with you posting here in PWI. Obviously you aren’t familiar with me since I am about as politically right as is possible as in Traditional or Paleo Conservative.

I do have one area I depart from many Conservatives - realistically livable compensation for all willing to work honest labor. I have owned 4 businesses including a retail business I paid 3x the minimum wage on top of insurance and vacation benefits. I have walked this walk in the real world - it can be done.

The opportunity I seek is for a man to work and make a living for himself and family - a hand up not a handout. Not give him welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, children aid, or whatever. I don’t know what the ramifications of Portland plan are and have voiced neither support nor condemnation.

You have chosen to comment on a frustrated post on mine part based on my opposition to Laissez faire economics. I don’t find it defensible from either a mathematical or moral standpoint.

The rising tide of wealth growth (GNP) flows only to the top and in increasingly concentrated quantities.
Additionally the US is systemically losing manufacturing infrastructure and jobs, direct and indirect support employment, and simultaneously creating a permanent growing underclass dependent on government largesse and shrinking privileged class. This flow to the top is suspected of being the main culprit in wage and wealth stagnation for those not in the upper centiles.

Here is a little chart from a notable Economics professor that should concern all

  • 6% wealth growth from 1969 to 2013, 44 years

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