[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
I have seen with my own eyes, your ideas in practice, so I don’t have to imagine anything.
[/quote]
When and what idea?
I love these PWI threads. They have it all! Some thought provoking debate, some mental masturbation, a smattering of factual references, but most of all - LAUGHS GALORE!
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< Another long post >>>
[/quote]
I appreciate your service to this country, but regardless of how old you are you ARE an academic tragedy. Like a few other guys around here you are intelligent and very wrong. I witness the horrific results of 45 years of your abominable ideology every day. The city of Detroit is one very large object lesson.
I just had to chuckle reading your last. Here’s another guy who cannot fathom someone holding a world view without external programming.
I don’t care what think you know, you ain’t seen shit.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< Well done. Good use of hyperbole. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<< Now discuss >>>
I have made my views clearly known all over this board. I’m not rehashing it again for yet another thoroughly lost bookworm.
You’re right, I am a bookworm, if by that you mean I am not afraid to read a book for fear I may be infected by the information. IÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??ll also put my life experiences next to yours or anyone elseÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??s on this thread. I have given concrete examples of programs that work, and of ones that had bad outcomes. You have insulted me personally without knowing the first thing about me except that I disagree with you.
Your recommendation of a modern 7th grade textbook for reliable information told me everything I’ll ever need to know. You’re a walking academic tragedy. So cocksure and confident in your towering erudition while the whole of reality wails it’s opposition. Keep talking about programs chief. That’s where it’s at.
OK cock-knocker, now here’s what I know about you. You have so much free time on your hands that you’ve managed to post over 7,500 times on T-Nation, the sum of which amount to one giant elephant fart. You’re also easily stumped. Nobody else was confused with the 7th grade text reference. The inference was that by the time you’re in the 7th grade you ought to know better than to spout the kind of simplistic crap that passes for debate on this forum of mindless chatter. Your last post is the third time you’ve insulted me for possessing any level of intellectual curiosity, all the while pontificating in blistering prose.
You strike me as the bully in school who beat up the kid with glasses, because he was smarter than you were. The problem you have here is that you can’t bully me for a number of reasons, one being I spend most of the time you’re on this site in the gym. By the way, the reason youâ??re so frustrated and have that sickening knot in the pit of your stomach is that you and those who think like you are sinking into obscure irrelevancy like all those before you who clung with utter desperation to the status quo because they were unable or unwilling to adapt.
I’m always amazed by hyper-conservatives and their Herculean grasp on the painfully obvious, i.e. if everyone would act responsibly, the world would be a better place. Congratulations on your ability to point out what my 15 month old son could figure out. You know what would end povertyâ?¦ thermo-nuclear war or the plague. That doesn’t mean I’m wishing for that shit to happen. Also, I could save money by moving my family from a house to a four-person tent, but that also is not going to happen. The moral of my diatribe is that the ends don’t justify the means. If solving problems comes at the expense of a host of people enduring unthinkable misery, then it is the job of those who can, to quit being intellectually lazy and think of a better way.
Many of these posters rant as if there was a day long ago when unmarried women didn’t have children so the government devised a program to incentivize out-of-wedlock child bearing. Or perhaps there was a day when everyone had a job and were able to feed their families on a single income, but Uncle Sam created welfare to give people a reason not to work. Am I taking crazy pills or are some of the posters here simply so awestruck by Limbaugh, Oâ??Reilly, and Hannity that they are afraid to go off-script? In either case, Iâ??m bored and Iâ??m out. Peace.
[/quote]
You have a way with language but still unfortunately don’t know what you are talking about.
You are missing the basic argument we are making and serving up some mighty fine red herring in the process.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
I’m always amazed by hyper-conservatives and their Herculean grasp on the painfully obvious, i.e. if everyone would act responsibly, the world would be a better place. Congratulations on your ability to point out what my 15 month old son could figure out.
[/quote]
Your son has it right, then. If we reward irresponsible behavior, what are we going to get more of?
You are the only one who has tried to make that argument in this thread, talking about the efficacy of social programs while ignoring the morality of spending other people’s money.
No, it’s not. I don’t want that responsibility, and I don’t appreciate having it forced on me. Ultimately, we are responsible only for ourselves and our young children. Anyone who says different wants your money, your life, or both.
peak oil will take care of overpulation soon enough
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
http://uscl.info/edoc/doc.php?doc_id=49&action=inline
(Planned Parenthood link)
"Encourage increased homosexuality
Educate for family limitation
Fertility control agents in water supply
Encourage women to work
Compulsory abortion of
out-of-wedlock
pregnancies
Compulsory sterilization
of all who have two
children except for a few
who would be allowed
three
Confine childbearing to
only a limited number of
adults
Stock certificate type
permits for children
Planned Parenthood…such a benign organisation!!![/quote]
So back to the original post, this study was commissioned by the Rockefeller Foundation, and reviewed by a senate appropriations hearing in 1970. Surprising that such a Republican based organization worked with Planned Parenthood back then?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< Another long post >>>
I appreciate your service to this country, but regardless of how old you are you ARE an academic tragedy. Like a few other guys around here you are intelligent and very wrong. I witness the horrific results of 45 years of your abominable ideology every day. The city of Detroit is one very large object lesson.
I just had to chuckle reading your last. Here’s another guy who cannot fathom someone holding a world view without external programming.
I don’t care what think you know, you ain’t seen shit.[/quote]
And you have.
Fight the power.
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
I’m always amazed by hyper-conservatives and their Herculean grasp on the painfully obvious, i.e. if everyone would act responsibly, the world would be a better place. Congratulations on your ability to point out what my 15 month old son could figure out.
Your son has it right, then. If we reward irresponsible behavior, what are we going to get more of?
The moral of my diatribe is that the ends don’t justify the means.
You are the only one who has tried to make that argument in this thread, talking about the efficacy of social programs while ignoring the morality of spending other people’s money.
If solving problems comes at the expense of a host of people enduring unthinkable misery, then it is the job of those who can, to quit being intellectually lazy and think of a better way.
No, it’s not. I don’t want that responsibility, and I don’t appreciate having it forced on me. Ultimately, we are responsible only for ourselves and our young children. Anyone who says different wants your money, your life, or both.[/quote]
Then move to an island, form your own government, and see if you can find your own Betsy Ross to sew you a flag. I have another idea, go to your gym today and tell the owner that you only want to pay for the equipment you use, the elliptical, the cable crossovers, and the giant floor-to-ceiling mirrors. The owner, likely wearing spandex and a tank-top, should take a long tug at his florescent colored water bottle and tell you to go open your own gym.
Let’s take caring for our young children as an example. Let’s assume for a moment that you are very rich, live in a gated community, and that your kids go to private school with other very rich kids. Then you have the luxury of not caring too much about the plight of other people because you never or rarely intersect with them. However, if you’re like me, make a decent wage (government wage by the way, this entire post is self-serving), have two small children and live in a bedroom community, then the collective security of your town IS your problem. There are mountains of data that demonstrate that when economies go into the toilet and there is no social safety net to keep people in homes, fed, and with access to at least emergency medical care, violence and property crimes begin to rise. This means less security for you and the people you love who all make GREAT decisions. All I advocate, by the way, in the means of public assistance is provision of basic staples. There should always be a cost benefit analysis and if the program doesn’t result in a long-term net savings, then it should be scrapped. Are there plenty of modern programs that fall into that category? Of course. That doesn’t mean we should throw out the baby with the bath water.
Finally, let me put your mind at ease. If you have a bunch of money, and I hope that you do, there will always be people or companies ready to offer you a “superior” product in exchange for some of that dough. As an example, in countries like Italy, where socialized medicine exists, there are private hospitals for the affluent that only a privileged few can afford. Public enterprises don’t eliminate the free-market; they are forced to compete like every other product. If that product is inferior, inefficient, or ineffectual then people will put there money elsewhere and vote out the idiots who came up with the bad product.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
I’m always amazed by hyper-conservatives and their Herculean grasp on the painfully obvious, i.e. if everyone would act responsibly, the world would be a better place. Congratulations on your ability to point out what my 15 month old son could figure out.
Your son has it right, then. If we reward irresponsible behavior, what are we going to get more of?
The moral of my diatribe is that the ends don’t justify the means.
You are the only one who has tried to make that argument in this thread, talking about the efficacy of social programs while ignoring the morality of spending other people’s money.
If solving problems comes at the expense of a host of people enduring unthinkable misery, then it is the job of those who can, to quit being intellectually lazy and think of a better way.
No, it’s not. I don’t want that responsibility, and I don’t appreciate having it forced on me. Ultimately, we are responsible only for ourselves and our young children. Anyone who says different wants your money, your life, or both.
Then move to an island, form your own government, and see if you can find your own Betsy Ross to sew you a flag. I have another idea, go to your gym today and tell the owner that you only want to pay for the equipment you use, the elliptical, the cable crossovers, and the giant floor-to-ceiling mirrors. The owner, likely wearing spandex and a tank-top, should take a long tug at his florescent colored water bottle and tell you to go open your own gym.
Let’s take caring for our young children as an example. Let’s assume for a moment that you are very rich, live in a gated community, and that your kids go to private school with other very rich kids. Then you have the luxury of not caring too much about the plight of other people because you never or rarely intersect with them. However, if you’re like me, make a decent wage (government wage by the way, this entire post is self-serving), have two small children and live in a bedroom community, then the collective security of your town IS your problem. There are mountains of data that demonstrate that when economies go into the toilet and there is no social safety net to keep people in homes, fed, and with access to at least emergency medical care, violence and property crimes begin to rise. This means less security for you and the people you love who all make GREAT decisions. All I advocate, by the way, in the means of public assistance is provision of basic staples. There should always be a cost benefit analysis and if the program doesn’t result in a long-term net savings, then it should be scrapped. Are there plenty of modern programs that fall into that category? Of course. That doesn’t mean we should throw out the baby with the bath water.
Finally, let me put your mind at ease. If you have a bunch of money, and I hope that you do, there will always be people or companies ready to offer you a “superior” product in exchange for some of that dough. As an example, in countries like Italy, where socialized medicine exists, there are private hospitals for the affluent that only a privileged few can afford. Public enterprises don’t eliminate the free-market; they are forced to compete like every other product. If that product is inferior, inefficient, or ineffectual then people will put there money elsewhere and vote out the idiots who came up with the bad product.
[/quote]
Stop making sense.Seriously.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< Another long post >>>
I appreciate your service to this country, but regardless of how old you are you ARE an academic tragedy. Like a few other guys around here you are intelligent and very wrong. I witness the horrific results of 45 years of your abominable ideology every day. The city of Detroit is one very large object lesson.
I just had to chuckle reading your last. Here’s another guy who cannot fathom someone holding a world view without external programming.
I don’t care what think you know, you ain’t seen shit.[/quote]
I’ll keep this post shorter, since you’ve given me a complex. I spent much of my military career in the rural south of the US where there exists a level of poverty most northern and mid-western states don’t see. Union membership represents about 8 percent of the working population in these “right to work” states and wages hover around 20 percent below the national average. Because of low wages, property values are low, income for schools follow suit and infrastructure is in an almost constant need of repair, but that’s just here in the US. Most of the countries south of our border don’t have any of the poison pills you rail against and I’d be willing to bet you wouldn’t trade places with anyone there on your worst day.
As to, I haven’t seen shit, I am curious as to how many stamps are in your passport, sport. Your entire frame of reference seems crafted by your immediate surroundings. Also, I love how you choose the villains in your stories. Detroit is a cautionary tale about top-heavy corporations with no fiscal discipline. It is also an example of American companies having to compete with foreign companies that don’t have similar nuts to crack. Japanese auto manufacturers don’t have to shoulder the costs of medical insurance or legacy costs, because their government picks up the tab. This is one reason some large corporations, pharma and for-profit hospitals excluded, have put their considerable political weight in the form of 527s behind health care reform. It is an enormous expense.
Try imagining your city now with no safety net. You’d be tripping over the homeless if you aren’t already. Crime and suicide rates would skyrocket and public safety would be a pipedream. If you’d prefer that Mad Max world, then you can have it.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
I’m always amazed by hyper-conservatives and their Herculean grasp on the painfully obvious, i.e. if everyone would act responsibly, the world would be a better place. Congratulations on your ability to point out what my 15 month old son could figure out.
Your son has it right, then. If we reward irresponsible behavior, what are we going to get more of?
The moral of my diatribe is that the ends don’t justify the means.
You are the only one who has tried to make that argument in this thread, talking about the efficacy of social programs while ignoring the morality of spending other people’s money.
If solving problems comes at the expense of a host of people enduring unthinkable misery, then it is the job of those who can, to quit being intellectually lazy and think of a better way.
No, it’s not. I don’t want that responsibility, and I don’t appreciate having it forced on me. Ultimately, we are responsible only for ourselves and our young children. Anyone who says different wants your money, your life, or both.
Then move to an island, form your own government, and see if you can find your own Betsy Ross to sew you a flag. I have another idea, go to your gym today and tell the owner that you only want to pay for the equipment you use, the elliptical, the cable crossovers, and the giant floor-to-ceiling mirrors. The owner, likely wearing spandex and a tank-top, should take a long tug at his florescent colored water bottle and tell you to go open your own gym.
Let’s take caring for our young children as an example. Let’s assume for a moment that you are very rich, live in a gated community, and that your kids go to private school with other very rich kids. Then you have the luxury of not caring too much about the plight of other people because you never or rarely intersect with them. However, if you’re like me, make a decent wage (government wage by the way, this entire post is self-serving), have two small children and live in a bedroom community, then the collective security of your town IS your problem. There are mountains of data that demonstrate that when economies go into the toilet and there is no social safety net to keep people in homes, fed, and with access to at least emergency medical care, violence and property crimes begin to rise. This means less security for you and the people you love who all make GREAT decisions. All I advocate, by the way, in the means of public assistance is provision of basic staples. There should always be a cost benefit analysis and if the program doesn’t result in a long-term net savings, then it should be scrapped. Are there plenty of modern programs that fall into that category? Of course. That doesn’t mean we should throw out the baby with the bath water.
Finally, let me put your mind at ease. If you have a bunch of money, and I hope that you do, there will always be people or companies ready to offer you a “superior” product in exchange for some of that dough. As an example, in countries like Italy, where socialized medicine exists, there are private hospitals for the affluent that only a privileged few can afford. Public enterprises don’t eliminate the free-market; they are forced to compete like every other product. If that product is inferior, inefficient, or ineffectual then people will put there money elsewhere and vote out the idiots who came up with the bad product.
[/quote]
Do you think poor people care about the children of rich parents?
Why are you using collectivist arguments?
I thought it was “All your base are belong to us”
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I thought it was “All your base are belong to us”[/quote]
Well when you are part of the collective the statement is what ever the leaders say it is. Now go write down freedom is slavery and 2+2=5.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< I’ll keep this post shorter, since you’ve given me a complex.[/quote]
I didn’t mean that your post was too long. I simply truncated it to save room on the page. I am in no position to have anything to say to anyone else about long posts.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< I spent much of my military career in the rural south of the US where there exists a level of poverty most northern and mid-western states don’t see. Union membership represents about 8 percent of the working population in these “right to work” states and wages hover around 20 percent below the national average. >>>[/quote]
Welcome to the big bad world. The difference between us is that you believe it is both possible and the responsibility of EVERYBODY to assure that NOBODY goes without. I know that artificially engineered compassion in the form legislatively coerced resource redistribution serves only to penalize productivity. See how well 40 years of the war on poverty is working by your own declaration?
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
<<< Most of the countries south of our border don’t have any of the poison pills you rail against and I’d be willing to bet you wouldn’t trade places with anyone there on your worst day. >>>[/quote]
This can’t be a serious statement.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
As to, I haven’t seen shit, I am curious as to how many stamps are in your passport, sport. Your entire frame of reference seems crafted by your immediate surroundings.[/quote]
You have been exposed to much more than you’ve actually seen with any clarity.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
Also, I love how you choose the villains in your stories. Detroit is a cautionary tale about top-heavy corporations with no fiscal discipline. It is also an example of American companies having to compete with foreign companies that don’t have similar nuts to crack. Japanese auto manufacturers don’t have to shoulder the costs of medical insurance or legacy costs, because their government picks up the tab. This is one reason some large corporations, pharma and for-profit hospitals excluded, have put their considerable political weight in the form of 527s behind health care reform. It is an enormous expense.[/quote]
Please continue making my arguments for me. Thanks.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
Try imagining your city now with no safety net. You’d be tripping over the homeless if you aren’t already. Crime and suicide rates would skyrocket and public safety would be a pipedream. If you’d prefer that Mad Max world, then you can have it. >>>[/quote]
ROFLMAO!!! Perfect description of present day Detroit Michigan. ROFLMAO!!!
The once mighty motor city. The former industrial nucleus of the globe that put the world on wheels and onetime economic engine of the United States. A haven for anybody with the will to work and at least as safe as any other big city in the nation… until the 60’s when people like you inflicted the rest of us with your deluded neo communist vision.
Today Detroit is a murderous third world shithole pickled in sickness and violence. Almost wholly dependent upon your precious compassionate social programs.
I do believe that you personally believe what you believe with honest motivations. You are simply very very tragically wrong.
[quote]John S. wrote:
The liberals Utopian dream?[/quote]
Nah, a statist’s utopian dream.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
John S. wrote:
The liberals Utopian dream?
Nah, a statist’s utopian dream. [/quote]
Not sure how you got statist out of that, Perhaps we should have a look at the liberals dream leader.
[quote]pwrlifter198 wrote:
Then move to an island, form your own government…
[/quote]
I don’t feel like arguing with you anymore, since you either can’t or don’t want to understand what I wrote. I would suggest that you stop using the “if you don’t like it, leave” argument - you might just get your wish, and then this country would be well and truly fucked.
PS you forgot about the curl rack
[quote]tom8658 wrote:
pwrlifter198 wrote:
Then move to an island, form your own government…
I don’t feel like arguing with you anymore, since you either can’t or don’t want to understand what I wrote. I would suggest that you stop using the “if you don’t like it, leave” argument - you might just get your wish, and then this country would be well and truly fucked.
PS you forgot about the curl rack[/quote]
If we continue to do what we are doing then I promise you the next generation we will see a mass exodus from this country.