Police Ticket Quota

Off Topic
241

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I think a bad doctor is a bad analogy. I can google and choose what doctor I go to. I can say, “I’d like to get a second opinion”. You don’t really have that option with a bad cop.

[/quote]

That really applies to government as a whole, doesn’t it?[/quote]

True. But I can hedge against our government. I’m a dual citizen, I have property and resources in South America, I have assets in “other than fiat” instruments. If it gets bad, I can leave fairly easily and without TOO much “financial pain”. I have enough oil industry experience where I could work internationally with out a problem.

With a bad cop, ALL that goes away - your freedom, your life maybe… It all depends on the “mood” of a fucked up individual (the BAD cop - not ALL cops). There is no other occupation that can randomly affect you the way a BAD cop can.

Look at the Danzinger bridge NOPD cops that just had their conviction overturned because of some tweets. They SHOT a group of unarmed people, killed several - blew a lady’s arm clean off - and then had the balls to cover it up. Now they are now getting a new trial. No one is disputing the FACTS of the case, but there was some PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT (another government worker who was corrupt) so the bad cops get a new trial.

To put it another way, corrupt cops (gov’t enforcers of law) kill/maime innocent people, the NOPD tries to cover it up and get’s caught, ONLY five people are charged, and corrupt prosecutor’s (gov’t enforcers of law) actions ultimately let them get a chance at another trial… YAAAAY Gov’t!!!

The “justice” system is seriously fucked up.

242

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Most of my interactions with police post-criminal activity have been pretty good. My last one was a doozy though that even I had to laugh about.

[/quote]

Can I ask the municipality?[/quote]

Brownsville PA.

Ever been there?
[/quote]

I have! I went to a small private school in Connellsville - though keep quiet if you know which it is :P. That explains why you know about the Yuck and have fished it.[/quote]

The Fayette Cong! I worked at the barge building facility on the Mon in Brownsville for a couple of years. There are some very interesting people round those parts.

243

Interesting people, most likely because of the water… the Mon isn’t the cleanest river. I wouldn’t eat any fish caught from it, that’s for sure.

And yes, Fayette Cong. My sister is now a teacher at one of the public highschools. Things seem to be going well for her thus far, but one never knows.

Southwestern PA, such a mix of personalities and people, and so close to West Virginia you can almost feel it as you approach it on 40. The Cheat River/Damn Outflow is a great place to fish by the way. Highly recommend it if you haven’t been. Some interesting folks there too though.

244

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
True. But I can hedge against our government. I’m a dual citizen, I have property and resources in South America, I have assets in “other than fiat” instruments. If it gets bad, I can leave fairly easily and without TOO much “financial pain”. I have enough oil industry experience where I could work internationally with out a problem.

With a bad cop, ALL that goes away - your freedom, your life maybe… It all depends on the “mood” of a fucked up individual (the BAD cop - not ALL cops). There is no other occupation that can randomly affect you the way a BAD cop can.

Look at the Danzinger bridge NOPD cops that just had their conviction overturned because of some tweets. They SHOT a group of unarmed people, killed several - blew a lady’s arm clean off - and then had the balls to cover it up. Now they are now getting a new trial. No one is disputing the FACTS of the case, but there was some PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT (another government worker who was corrupt) so the bad cops get a new trial. To put it another way, corrupt cops (gov’t enforcers of law) kill/maime innocent people, the NOPD tries to cover it up and get’s caught, ONLY five people are charged, and corrupt prosecutor’s (gov’t enforcers of law) actions ultimately let them get a chance at another trial… YAAAAY Gov’t!!!

The “justice” system is seriously fucked up.

[/quote]

Police only have the power they do because of the rest of our government, however. We have elected leaders who have given(in some cases by then appointing others to give) the police the power they have currently. As far as a truly bad police officer goes, of course he/she can negatively affect you. However, a bad mailman, bank teller, or anyone else can, too.

Anybody can randomly kill or rob you. The thing that seems to get people about police is the fact that they can do so much without punishment…a problem which points right at those who are really in charge, not a lowly laborer.

245

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Look at the Danzinger bridge NOPD cops that just had their conviction overturned because of some tweets. They SHOT a group of unarmed people, killed several - blew a lady’s arm clean off - and then had the balls to cover it up. Now they are now getting a new trial. No one is disputing the FACTS of the case, but there was some PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT (another government worker who was corrupt) so the bad cops get a new trial. To put it another way, corrupt cops (gov’t enforcers of law) kill/maime innocent people, the NOPD tries to cover it up and get’s caught, ONLY five people are charged, and corrupt prosecutor’s (gov’t enforcers of law) actions ultimately let them get a chance at another trial… YAAAAY Gov’t!!!

The “justice” system is seriously fucked up.

[/quote]

Criminals walking from charges due to a technicality is nothing new.

The “justice” system(I refer to it as a legal system) sure isn’t perfect. I feel for the people it doesn’t work for, mainly the victims of crime.

246

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Don’t you understand that this is a “bad apples” thread? Don’t you understand that getting a “bad apple” cop is far more critical than getting a “bad apple” plumber? Or gas station attendant? Or car mechanic? Or accountant? Or landscaper? Or factory worker?
[/quote]

A mechanic can cost you thousands in repairs on an asset that is worth tens of thousands of dollars. A bad plumber can ruin your home(I know a guy who had 3 feet of sewage in his basement due to a bad plumber). An accountant can ruin your life if they bungle your retirement fund(a friend lost over $100K of his father’s inheritance because of an accountant). A lot of these expenses cost more than a speeding ticket, some cost more than a criminal defense.

[/quote]

And a bad cop that “finds weed” in your car or puts the beatdown on you and claims you swung first can ruin your life in a far worse manner.

A felony charge and especially conviction of “assault of a peace officer” has lifetime repercussions way beyond sewage in your basement.

If you want to limit the discussion to speeding tickets then yes, you are correct in your statement above.[/quote]

I’d just like to add that it’s a lot harder to get a bad cop to answer for screwing you over than it is a bad plumber. A decent police officer will end up with a lot of unhappy customers (so to speak) than a decent plumber would, so the police officer gets given more leeway when someone wants to lodge a complaint about them. On the other hand, because this protection exists, and because of the impact on a poorly served “customer”, the police officer needs to be held to a stricter standard than the plumber.

247

[quote]Hertzyscowicz wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Don’t you understand that this is a “bad apples” thread? Don’t you understand that getting a “bad apple” cop is far more critical than getting a “bad apple” plumber? Or gas station attendant? Or car mechanic? Or accountant? Or landscaper? Or factory worker?
[/quote]

A mechanic can cost you thousands in repairs on an asset that is worth tens of thousands of dollars. A bad plumber can ruin your home(I know a guy who had 3 feet of sewage in his basement due to a bad plumber). An accountant can ruin your life if they bungle your retirement fund(a friend lost over $100K of his father’s inheritance because of an accountant). A lot of these expenses cost more than a speeding ticket, some cost more than a criminal defense.

[/quote]

And a bad cop that “finds weed” in your car or puts the beatdown on you and claims you swung first can ruin your life in a far worse manner.

A felony charge and especially conviction of “assault of a peace officer” has lifetime repercussions way beyond sewage in your basement.

If you want to limit the discussion to speeding tickets then yes, you are correct in your statement above.[/quote]

I’d just like to add that it’s a lot harder to get a bad cop to answer for screwing you over than it is a bad plumber. A decent police officer will end up with a lot of unhappy customers (so to speak) than a decent plumber would, so the police officer gets given more leeway when someone wants to lodge a complaint about them. On the other hand, because this protection exists, and because of the impact on a poorly served “customer”, the police officer needs to be held to a stricter standard than the plumber.[/quote]

I have found the experience to be quite the opposite. Professional Standards investigations are a bitch and most of the complaints made are either false or frivolous. Until you’ve been involved in one, you wouldn’t understand. My boss doesn’t walk up to me and say “Hey, did you do what this guy is accusing you of?” Nothing happens to the complainant if the investigation reveals the complaint to be false.

Thank God for cameras.

248

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I think a bad doctor is a bad analogy. I can google and choose what doctor I go to. I can say, “I’d like to get a second opinion”. You don’t really have that option with a bad cop.

[/quote]

That really applies to government as a whole, doesn’t it?[/quote]

True. But I can hedge against our government. I’m a dual citizen, I have property and resources in South America, I have assets in “other than fiat” instruments. If it gets bad, I can leave fairly easily and without TOO much “financial pain”. I have enough oil industry experience where I could work internationally with out a problem.

With a bad cop, ALL that goes away - your freedom, your life maybe… It all depends on the “mood” of a fucked up individual (the BAD cop - not ALL cops). There is no other occupation that can randomly affect you the way a BAD cop can. [/quote]

Point taken. There really is no good analogy.

250

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Hertzyscowicz wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Don’t you understand that this is a “bad apples” thread? Don’t you understand that getting a “bad apple” cop is far more critical than getting a “bad apple” plumber? Or gas station attendant? Or car mechanic? Or accountant? Or landscaper? Or factory worker?
[/quote]

A mechanic can cost you thousands in repairs on an asset that is worth tens of thousands of dollars. A bad plumber can ruin your home(I know a guy who had 3 feet of sewage in his basement due to a bad plumber). An accountant can ruin your life if they bungle your retirement fund(a friend lost over $100K of his father’s inheritance because of an accountant). A lot of these expenses cost more than a speeding ticket, some cost more than a criminal defense.

[/quote]

And a bad cop that “finds weed” in your car or puts the beatdown on you and claims you swung first can ruin your life in a far worse manner.

A felony charge and especially conviction of “assault of a peace officer” has lifetime repercussions way beyond sewage in your basement.

If you want to limit the discussion to speeding tickets then yes, you are correct in your statement above.[/quote]

I’d just like to add that it’s a lot harder to get a bad cop to answer for screwing you over than it is a bad plumber. A decent police officer will end up with a lot of unhappy customers (so to speak) than a decent plumber would, so the police officer gets given more leeway when someone wants to lodge a complaint about them. On the other hand, because this protection exists, and because of the impact on a poorly served “customer”, the police officer needs to be held to a stricter standard than the plumber.[/quote]

I have found the experience to be quite the opposite. Professional Standards investigations are a bitch and most of the complaints made are either false or frivolous. Until you’ve been involved in one, you wouldn’t understand. My boss doesn’t walk up to me and say “Hey, did you do what this guy is accusing you of?” Nothing happens to the complainant if the investigation reveals the complaint to be false.

Thank God for cameras. [/quote]

In MD they made it illegal to take video of Police.

251

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Hertzyscowicz wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Don’t you understand that this is a “bad apples” thread? Don’t you understand that getting a “bad apple” cop is far more critical than getting a “bad apple” plumber? Or gas station attendant? Or car mechanic? Or accountant? Or landscaper? Or factory worker?
[/quote]

A mechanic can cost you thousands in repairs on an asset that is worth tens of thousands of dollars. A bad plumber can ruin your home(I know a guy who had 3 feet of sewage in his basement due to a bad plumber). An accountant can ruin your life if they bungle your retirement fund(a friend lost over $100K of his father’s inheritance because of an accountant). A lot of these expenses cost more than a speeding ticket, some cost more than a criminal defense.

[/quote]

And a bad cop that “finds weed” in your car or puts the beatdown on you and claims you swung first can ruin your life in a far worse manner.

A felony charge and especially conviction of “assault of a peace officer” has lifetime repercussions way beyond sewage in your basement.

If you want to limit the discussion to speeding tickets then yes, you are correct in your statement above.[/quote]

I’d just like to add that it’s a lot harder to get a bad cop to answer for screwing you over than it is a bad plumber. A decent police officer will end up with a lot of unhappy customers (so to speak) than a decent plumber would, so the police officer gets given more leeway when someone wants to lodge a complaint about them. On the other hand, because this protection exists, and because of the impact on a poorly served “customer”, the police officer needs to be held to a stricter standard than the plumber.[/quote]

I have found the experience to be quite the opposite. Professional Standards investigations are a bitch and most of the complaints made are either false or frivolous. Until you’ve been involved in one, you wouldn’t understand. My boss doesn’t walk up to me and say “Hey, did you do what this guy is accusing you of?” Nothing happens to the complainant if the investigation reveals the complaint to be false.

Thank God for cameras. [/quote]

In MD they made it illegal to take video of Police.[/quote]

We have the in-car cameras. People usually act differently when you inform them they are being AV record. I try to get the whole traffic stop on video, including the reason for the stop.

252

Is there any legal requirement for the recording, or is it just a matter of policy?

Do those recordings ever just “disappear”?

253

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for the recording, or is it just a matter of policy?

Do those recordings ever just “disappear”?[/quote]

Policy, and I encourage it because it can save your ass.

To be honest, I’m not very familiar with the system other than how to operate it. I just know the camera and microphone record what I do when I use my lights or manually turn the system on.

I’ve never heard of footage just disappearing.

255

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

I’ve never heard of footage just disappearing. [/quote]

I have.[/quote]

Me too!?!

Twas magic!

When a teacher from the American International School got jumped by Austrian cops, 15 minutes of tape just disappeared from the Subway surveillance cameras.

256

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
This story has its own thread if I remember correctly but nonetheless it deserves inclusion here.

Ummm…not so sure the ol’ adage, “the good apples un-spoil the barrel,” as referenced by Varq earlier, really is a sage one.

I’d like comments on this from the LEO’s who’ve participated in this thread.

BTW, do this to my wife and/or daughter and I will come looking for you, badge or no badge.[/quote]

Brett620 covered it well.

I requested answers concerning two questions I had, but no one stepped up to the plate. I’ll ask again.

What are the thoughts on fire-hall style policing?

Why is it OK to make an assumption about a group of people and treat them accordingly without even knowing them? Would you be able to see past your initial assumption?

[/quote]

Could you explain what “fire hall style policing” is? I’ve never heard of it and nothing is coming up on Google. Perhaps that’s why you haven’t gotten a response.[/quote]

A reactive style of policing instead of a proactive style. Cops would sit in the office until called upon, like a fire hall. [/quote]

I wonder if the citizen of South Chicago could vote on this. Chicago does not use stop and frisk, and look at their murder rate. Compare it to NYC which does use it effectively (although that liberal judge is causing a hissy). Compare their murders/gun arrests etc. It’s shocking. Chicago uses all the other tools I’m sure, but any street cops knows how effective “Terry Stops” are. It’s just a fact.

I guess you can scream ‘racism’ all you want… then end up like Chicago. Let the public have a say. If you don’t want police intervention and proactive community policing, vote it up or down.

Just don’t gripe when it’s re-active Fire-Hall style.

The high crime areas in NYC that Stop and Frisk is used, the residents SUPPORT it’s use. And the officers typically assigned to those districts (like in NYC) are more likely to be non-white also.[/quote]

I don’t mean to hijack this thread with the following.

Do you think that the strong gun control laws contribute(d) to what has, and is happening on the South Side of Chicago? Chicago government made it impossible and now rather difficult for law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

As for the fire-hall style policing, isn’t that what it is for the most part? Granted, I see Chicago cops driving around, but aren’t they waiting for someone to call 911, or actually hear gunshots before they can do anything?

257

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

I’ve never heard of footage just disappearing. [/quote]

I have.[/quote]

From my agency.

258

[quote]Drunkard wrote:
As for the fire-hall style policing, isn’t that what it is for the most part? Granted, I see Chicago cops driving around, but aren’t they waiting for someone to call 911, or actually hear gunshots before they can do anything? [/quote]

Not really. I spend most of my shift digging around for stuff when I’m not catching up on paperwork. If I get a 911 call during my shift, I’ll go and deal with that. Otherwise, I’m doing my own thing.

259

It is unfair to compare a bad cop to a bad plumber, mechanic or any other profession. If I were a plumber, mechanic, whatever it is in my best interest to weed out and even report bad members of my field. I would reap financial gain b/c of competition. The police don’t have this issue, there is no competition. There is no incentive for police to improve. They have to change their behavior in light of bad behavior. Training issues need addressing, reporting practices, a mentor program, etc. In essence more work, the system is set up so there is incentive NOT to change.

I haven’t read any of the police on here reporting bad police which begs the question of the blue line. Cops protect their own. Sure I, as a citizen can report behavior but in the courtroom my word is actually worth less than a cops. Cops ‘are objective professionals’ as a citizen arguing against a cop my word is biased.

What are a police officer’s two favorite words? Stop resisting(whack, whack). Stop resisting!

260

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for the recording, or is it just a matter of policy?

Do those recordings ever just “disappear”?[/quote]

Policy, and I encourage it because it can save your ass.

To be honest, I’m not very familiar with the system other than how to operate it. I just know the camera and microphone record what I do when I use my lights or manually turn the system on.

I’ve never heard of footage just disappearing. [/quote]

The “it can save your ass” thing goes both ways though.

It just seems a bit odd to me that officers can use footage to defend themselves in court, but citizens cannot… especially if the events occur in public view and/or in the citizen’s own vehicle.

Not that I’m really a fan of our current panopticon society, but the double standard (at least, in the cases where it’s illegal to record an officer) is treading into dangerous territory.