The whole conspiracy theory rests on the idea that the government and military could display hyper-competency in executing a massive conspiracy and cover up. The explanation for the conventional theory only requires the government and military to commit a variety of fuckups, miscommunications, poor planning, and display a general pattern of bureaucratic inefficiency.
Which accords better with reality? I know my answer.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
hedo wrote:
I’m not anymore. I was. The topic you went with wasn’t “couldn’t” it was “didn’t”. Stay on the point.
“Didn’t” is right. But then I must have a higher opinion of the military than I really should - but obviously you know better.
So WAS IT the MILITARY that let the American people down – or were the hijackers so ingeniously clever that they knew they could fly a jumbo jet unimpeded for almost two hours, straight into the Pentagon?
I tend not to put the hijackers on such a high pedestal myself, but maybe I should reconsider. Imagine putting so much effort and years of training into something that, to most people, would seem like an IMPOSSIBILITY. Obviously they actually COUNTED ON the incompetence of the military as part of the plan.
I’m starting to see now why you hold the hijackers in such high regard – they were military GENIUSES. How did I not see that?
How about you secret squirel…weren’t you a secret operative who left the reservation and now the government is trying to stop you from spreading the truth!
So if someone doesn’t believe a kook even after their delusional fantasies have been refuted time after time on this website and in the general public, they are the ones who don’t understand how the world works…enough, it’s over guys…your wrong time to pick up on something new.
Your right. I see now that I just never gave the hijackers enough credit. Thank you.
Guys nobody takes you seriously, never did. You are shitting up a good site where people with similar interests talk about training ideas and politics of the day. Take it someplace where you aren’t being ridiculed.
And people are supposed to take you seriously? An ex-military guy who believes the military DIDN’T stop a relatively slow moving plane from hitting the Pentagon despite having a two hour warning?
I guess all in all we should be glad they didn’t hijack a Goodyear blimp and load it down with explosives. The military would’ve never lived down the shear embarrassment of a blimp slow-motion diving into the Pentagon and blowing up after a two hour trek over military airspace…
BTW, when was the last time you spoke with Elvis?
[/quote]
Elvis he’s dead…do you believe otherwise secret squirel? Want to tell us something?
Guess I’m crazy, I blame the hijackers.
By the way you seem to be an expert on the domestic air defense systems…in what branch did you get your experience and what rank did you attain…you do have some sort of professional knowledge of the subject don’t you?
Maybe you should switch meds?
[quote]etaco wrote:
The whole conspiracy theory rests on the idea that the government and military could display hyper-competency in executing a massive conspiracy and cover up. The explanation for the conventional theory only requires the government and military to commit a variety of fuckups, miscommunications, poor planning, and display a general pattern of bureaucratic inefficiency.
Which accords better with reality? I know my answer.[/quote]
We’re talking about the military, with a two hour warning, allowing a jumbo jet to fly into the PENTAGON – not into the Pizza Hut in Albany, Missouri.
I think the “incompetence” excuse ended around the 30-45 minute mark.
[quote]etaco wrote:
The whole conspiracy theory rests on the idea that the government and military could display hyper-competency in executing a massive conspiracy and cover up. The explanation for the conventional theory only requires the government and military to commit a variety of fuckups, miscommunications, poor planning, and display a general pattern of bureaucratic inefficiency.
Which accords better with reality? I know my answer.[/quote]
Well said.
[quote]hedo wrote:
Elvis he’s dead…do you believe otherwise secret squirel? Want to tell us something?
Guess I’m crazy, I blame the hijackers.[/quote]
Oh right. Of course Elvis is dead, NOW… he was flying the plane that flew into the Pentagon…
Ignoring the 9/11 Commission for a moment…
“We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us,” said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. “It was just so far from the truth…”
…I didn’t realize you had to be an “expert” to know a two hour response time to WASHINGTON DC was a giant load of horse manure.
Would that be the blue pill for the red pill or vice versa?
An Ex-Spy Says He Seeks Solutions, Not Scapegoats for 9/11
Washington Post
May 18, 2002
Goss has repeatedly refused to blame an “intelligence failure” for the terror attacks…
On the morning of Sept. 11, Goss and Graham were having breakfast with a Pakistani general named Mahmud Ahmad – the soon-to-be-sacked head of Pakistan’s intelligence service. Ahmed ran a spy agency notoriously close to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A36091-2002May17?language=printer
Our Friends the Pakistanis
Wall Street Journal
October 10, 2001
Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the “evidence” India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Centre. The US authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of Gen Mahumd Ahmed.
Senior government sources have confirmed that India contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed ISI chief.
Fired!!! That seems awfully harsh…
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
etaco wrote:
The whole conspiracy theory rests on the idea that the government and military could display hyper-competency in executing a massive conspiracy and cover up. The explanation for the conventional theory only requires the government and military to commit a variety of fuckups, miscommunications, poor planning, and display a general pattern of bureaucratic inefficiency.
Which accords better with reality? I know my answer.
We’re talking about the military, with a two hour warning, allowing a jumbo jet to fly into the PENTAGON – not into the Pizza Hut in Albany, Missouri.
I think the “incompetence” excuse ended around the 30-45 minute mark.[/quote]
Let’s see… It’s peacetime, the cold war has been over for a decade, and the last time the United States were attacked by air was… oh that’s right, never. Moreover there’s a chaotic situation in which nobody is quite sure what is going on at first and the grounding of all aircraft had occurred only minutes before the Pentagon was hit, meaning substantial quantities of other aircraft were probably still in the air. Moreover the two strikes which occurred up to that point had been confined to a 1-square block area several hundred miles away.
Crashing two planes into buildings was two more than anyone had seen before, why would they assume that there would be more, hundreds of miles and an hour and a half away? Should they have? Probably. But it’s understandable that they may not have responded correctly to a situation without precedent for which they were totally unprepared.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
hedo wrote:
Elvis he’s dead…do you believe otherwise secret squirel? Want to tell us something?
Guess I’m crazy, I blame the hijackers.
Oh right. Of course Elvis is dead, NOW… he was flying the plane that flew into the Pentagon…
By the way you seem to be an expert on the domestic air defense systems…in what branch did you get your experience and what rank did you attain…you do have some sort of professional knowledge of the subject don’t you?
Ignoring the 9/11 Commission for a moment…
“We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us,” said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. “It was just so far from the truth…”
…I didn’t realize you had to be an “expert” to know a two hour response time to WASHINGTON DC was a giant load of horse manure.
Maybe you should switch meds?
Would that be the blue pill for the red pill or vice versa?
An Ex-Spy Says He Seeks Solutions, Not Scapegoats for 9/11
Washington Post
May 18, 2002
Goss has repeatedly refused to blame an “intelligence failure” for the terror attacks…
On the morning of Sept. 11, Goss and Graham were having breakfast with a Pakistani general named Mahmud Ahmad – the soon-to-be-sacked head of Pakistan’s intelligence service. Ahmed ran a spy agency notoriously close to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.
Our Friends the Pakistanis
Wall Street Journal
October 10, 2001
Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the “evidence” India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Centre. The US authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of Gen Mahumd Ahmed.
Senior government sources have confirmed that India contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed ISI chief.
Fired!!! That seems awfully harsh…[/quote]
Maybe the Zionists were behind it?
[quote]etaco wrote:
Let’s see… It’s peacetime, the cold war has been over for a decade, and the last time the United States were attacked by air was… oh that’s right, never. Moreover there’s a chaotic situation in which nobody is quite sure what is going on at first and the grounding of all aircraft had occurred only minutes before the Pentagon was hit, meaning substantial quantities of other aircraft were probably still in the air. Moreover the two strikes which occurred up to that point had been confined to a 1-square block area several hundred miles away.
Crashing two planes into buildings was two more than anyone had seen before, why would they assume that there would be more, hundreds of miles and an hour and a half away? Should they have? Probably. But it’s understandable that they may not have responded correctly to a situation without precedent for which they were totally unprepared. [/quote]
Seriously?
Report Warned Of Suicide Hijackings
Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden’s terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml
FBI Knew Terrorists Were Using Flight Schools
9/11 Report Cites Many Warnings about Hijackings
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/8891
US aviation received 52 al-Qaeda warnings before 9/11
State Dept. Confirms Rice-Tenet Meeting
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2521311
Amalgam Virgo, June 2001
[quote]hedo wrote:
Maybe the Zionists were behind it?
[/quote]
Yeah, and considering all the absolutely outrageous number of coincidences and mass “incompetence” needed to pull off this plot, I’d say the mastermind’s name was Rube Goldberg.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
etaco wrote:
Let’s see… It’s peacetime, the cold war has been over for a decade, and the last time the United States were attacked by air was… oh that’s right, never. Moreover there’s a chaotic situation in which nobody is quite sure what is going on at first and the grounding of all aircraft had occurred only minutes before the Pentagon was hit, meaning substantial quantities of other aircraft were probably still in the air. Moreover the two strikes which occurred up to that point had been confined to a 1-square block area several hundred miles away.
Crashing two planes into buildings was two more than anyone had seen before, why would they assume that there would be more, hundreds of miles and an hour and a half away? Should they have? Probably. But it’s understandable that they may not have responded correctly to a situation without precedent for which they were totally unprepared.
Seriously?
Report Warned Of Suicide Hijackings
Two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, an analysis prepared for U.S. intelligence warned that Osama bin Laden’s terrorists could hijack an airliner and fly it into government buildings like the Pentagon.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml
FBI Knew Terrorists Were Using Flight Schools
9/11 Report Cites Many Warnings about Hijackings
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/8891
US aviation received 52 al-Qaeda warnings before 9/11
State Dept. Confirms Rice-Tenet Meeting
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2521311
Amalgam Virgo, June 2001
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/linkscopy/AmalgumVirgo.pdf [/quote]
This points to a failure of communication throughout a massive bureaucracy rather than a massive government conspiracy. How the fuck is some air traffic controller at Andrews or 99% of the others involved in the relevant chains of command going to know about intelligence coming from the CIA or FBI and dying at the white house?
[quote]etaco wrote:
This points to a failure of communication throughout a massive bureaucracy rather than a massive government conspiracy. How the fuck is some air traffic controller at Andrews or 99% of the others involved in the relevant chains of command going to know about intelligence coming from the CIA or FBI and dying at the white house? [/quote]
Dude, NORAD was tracking Flt 77 all the way into the Pentagon. There was no confusion AT ALL over where Flt 77 was at any given time.
I’m sure there are over a thousand places in the US where military fighter jets might NOT have been to in a reasonable amount of time on 9/11.
I can assure you WASHINGTON D.C. would not have been one of them. Even if there had been only ONE fighter jet for all of the US, it would not have been anywhere else BUT DC.
Its almost like saying, there weren’t any guards at Fort Knox the day it was robbed because there was no reason to think anyone would try and rob it.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Its almost like saying, there weren’t any guards at Fort Knox the day it was robbed because there was no reason to think anyone would try and rob it.[/quote]
So, you believe Al-Qaeda was responsible for the attacks?
Because you cited this article;
US aviation received 52 al-Qaeda warnings before 9/11
Indicating you believe the 9/11 Commission’s report that uncovered the 52 warnings and that Al-Qaeda was behind the attacks.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Its almost like saying, there weren’t any guards at Fort Knox the day it was robbed because there was no reason to think anyone would try and rob it.
So, you believe Al-Qaeda was responsible for the attacks?
Because you cited this article;
US aviation received 52 al-Qaeda warnings before 9/11
Indicating you believe the 9/11 Commission’s report that uncovered the 52 warnings and that Al-Qaeda was behind the attacks.[/quote]
No. Bushitler was inspired by the warnings to develop a remote control device (in conjunction with the Mossad) to take over 2 planes and crash them into the WTC.
Of course this would not bring down the towers so explosives were planted and it was brought down with a controlled demolition.
The BBC was warned tower #7 was coming down but they reported it early by mistake thus exposing the secret.
The third plane was shot down over PA and the fourth plane was diverted to a remote island where Elvis and Jim Morrison live while a missle was shot at the Pentagon.
Duh.
[quote]etaco wrote:
The whole conspiracy theory rests on the idea that the government and military could display hyper-competency in executing a massive conspiracy and cover up.[/quote]
The whole conspiracy theory rests on the fact that the official explanation has huge holes. Now, I don’t buy the theory that Bush was behind the attacks but it’s clear that they’re withholding information. The 9/11 commision report is a joke.
I think of it that way; If somebody came to you in the beginning of last century and said that your government has a secret project in which thousands of people are involved to devellop a weapon that’s million folds more powerful than any explosive known at the time, would you buy his story?
Yeah, the missile that hit the pentagon was disguised as an airliner (eyewitnesses) and blew up into airliner debris. Yeah, I’ll buy that…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
No. Bushitler was inspired by the warnings to develop a remote control device (in conjunction with the Mossad) to take over 2 planes and crash them into the WTC.
…
Duh.[/quote]
Alright! I got an, “I believe the conspiracy! It’s all true!” out of Zap. We’re finally getting somewhere.
Now if I can just get an, “Okay! You got me, it’s all made up and I don’t buy any of it. All the conspiracies are complete bullshit!” out of JTF, I’ll finally sleep soundly. I’ll start holding my breath…
now.
Remember Payne Stewart’s plane? Took them 76 minutes to intercept it…76 minutes. Norad wasn’t exactly set up well to intercept our own planes. It was a cold war relic, still taking a cold war posture. By the way, isn’t the military jargon for any airborne projectile used as a weapon a “missile.”
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Dude, NORAD was tracking Flt 77 all the way into the Pentagon. There was no confusion AT ALL over where Flt 77 was at any given time.
[/quote]
Well, at least you realize Flight 77 did strike the Pentagon, and not a bomb or rocket of some sort.
He’s old, obviously never been on TV much, and nervous. He was talking about a tragedy.
Freudian slips are never reliable. They revel what one may be thinking, not the truth. He may have simply been thinking about a missile.