If PIV is wrong…
I don’t wanna be right.
I just had an opportunity to read the second linked post. I worked briefly with a woman who talked this way - all the men gone and the world better for it. She was a lesbian AND had been peripherally involved in a grisly rape/murder years earlier. Needless to say, it didn’t take long for her to fire me (“not helpful”) and also needless to say, I was relieved.
So there are people who feel as this woman does; I’ve met a grand total of one. I’m sure I’ve encountered men who are inclined similarly toward women, but they would obviously be less apt to admit their feelings to me. Or perhaps the male equivalent posts on Orion’s angry men’s boards, about women crashing the whole world down and then becoming utterly subjugated again.
It’s very sad to think that there are women who assume because of some sort of early sexual trauma that sex is a painful, ripping experience for all women. Perhaps like the NAWALT guys, they believe that when women like me report that my bed is a place of melty good feelings in every regard, I’m somehow duped into complacency.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
women like me report that my bed is a place of melty good feelings in every regard, I’m somehow duped into complacency.[/quote]
So sad. Clearly brainwashed by the patriarchy. So sad.
Weird, being so many Lesbian toys involve some version of a dick.
I wonder what they have to say about Lesbians who love dick?
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I just had an opportunity to read the second linked post. I worked briefly with a woman who talked this way - all the men gone and the world better for it. She was a lesbian AND had been peripherally involved in a grisly rape/murder years earlier. Needless to say, it didn’t take long for her to fire me (“not helpful”) and also needless to say, I was relieved.
So there are people who feel as this woman does; I’ve met a grand total of one. I’m sure I’ve encountered men who are inclined similarly toward women, but they would obviously be less apt to admit their feelings to me. Or perhaps the male equivalent posts on Orion’s angry men’s boards, about women crashing the whole world down and then becoming utterly subjugated again.
It’s very sad to think that there are women who assume because of some sort of early sexual trauma that sex is a painful, ripping experience for all women. Perhaps like the NAWALT guys, they believe that when women like me report that my bed is a place of melty good feelings in every regard, I’m somehow duped into complacency.[/quote]
Well, the idea that women were raped that did not even know that they were raped is not only on the fringes of mainstream feminism but right at its core.
The whole “1 in 4” came to pass because a feminist professor did not like the answers she got on her survey regarding the sexual experiences of female college students so she asked again and decided that this time she would decide whether it was “rape” or not.
And, lo and behold, rapety rape-rape EVERYWHERE.
Those poor darlings did not even know what had been done to them!
But she knew and SHE WOULD TELL THE WORLD!!!
[quote]orion wrote:
Well, the idea that women were raped that did not even know that they were raped is not only on the fringes of mainstream feminism but right at its core.
/quote]
I think that’s very debatable. Whose definition are we applying?
A sensible, academic definition would trace the roots, at least in this culture, back to the 19th century, and I’ve never seen a widespread acceptance of this theory appear anywhere in mainstream feminist literature. In fact, the orthodox roots of the entire feminist and/or women’s rights movement tended to focus mostly on civil and legal rights initially, with a subsequent focus on economic equality, especially in the workplace.
Granted, I’m no feminist, but I’d still put this blogger and her ‘lemmings’ at the fringe, and most of the mainstream feminists I know, working in a university community, are married, have kids, and have nothing disparaging to say about sexual romance with their male counterparts. The few that I know who espouse something close to this extreme are either lesbians or themselves were victims of some sort of trauma, and that’s all of about 3 women.
I wouldn’t stereotype the whole “feminist” movement as this extreme, unless we’re assuming that what constitutes mainstream or centrist feminism is a matter of personal, subjective opinion that varies from one observer to the next.
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
When I read the title of this thread I was unsure what PIV stood for. [/quote]
I thought it sex with a discontinued soda…
[quote]JR249 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Well, the idea that women were raped that did not even know that they were raped is not only on the fringes of mainstream feminism but right at its core.
[/quote]
I think that’s very debatable. Whose definition are we applying?
A sensible, academic definition would trace the roots, at least in this culture, back to the 19th century, and I’ve never seen a widespread acceptance of this theory appear anywhere in mainstream feminist literature. In fact, the orthodox roots of the entire feminist and/or women’s rights movement tended to focus mostly on civil and legal rights initially, with a subsequent focus on economic equality, especially in the workplace.
Granted, I’m no feminist, but I’d still put this blogger and her ‘lemmings’ at the fringe, and most of the mainstream feminists I know, working in a university community, are married, have kids, and have nothing disparaging to say about sexual romance with their male counterparts. The few that I know who espouse something close to this extreme are either lesbians or themselves were victims of some sort of trauma, and that’s all of about 3 women.
I wouldn’t stereotype the whole “feminist” movement as this extreme, unless we’re assuming that what constitutes mainstream or centrist feminism is a matter of personal, subjective opinion that varies from one observer to the next.
[/quote]
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/sexual_assault_report_1-21-14.pdf
Thats from the page of the White House
You dont have to go more than 2 or 3 pages in to be bombarded with lies.
1 out of 5 women get raped.
False.
More women get raped than men.
False.
The vast majority of rapists are male.
By their own definition, no they are not.
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics however, the likelyhood of a woman being raped OR sexually assaulted while in college is 6,7 %.
There is no way that these numbers add up, so these lies get published in an official White House report and you dont get more feminist, mainstream or established as that.
[quote]orion wrote:
There is no way that these numbers add up, so these lies get published in an official White House report and you dont get more feminist, mainstream or established as that.
[/quote]
A couple of documents, even if the statistics are exaggerated, don’t equate to the core beliefs that a majority of an ideology holds. Feminism is fairly amorphous as it is. If these were documents published by some sort of organization that represented the core beliefs of a majority of feminists, you’d have a better argument.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing in those documents that asserts that consensual PIV intercourse is unnatural, which is what this thread was really about.
The more I read Orion’s posts, the more I think he’s just the opposite world version of a RadFem.
[quote]JR249 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
There is no way that these numbers add up, so these lies get published in an official White House report and you dont get more feminist, mainstream or established as that.
[/quote]
A couple of documents, even if the statistics are exaggerated, don’t equate to the core beliefs that a majority of an ideology holds. Feminism is fairly amorphous as it is. If these were documents published by some sort of organization that represented the core beliefs of a majority of feminists, you’d have a better argument.
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing in those documents that asserts that consensual PIV intercourse is unnatural, which is what this thread was really about.[/quote]
Well, but it evolved a bit from there, did it not?
Because the point that I was trying to make is that those 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 statistic which made it all to the White House is only possible if you tell women that they were raped even if they themselves say they were not.
The whole rape culture histeria is based on these lies.
And then policies are implemented based on these lies.
And men have their lifes ruined, based on these lies.
[quote]orion wrote:
Well, but it evolved a bit from there, did it not?
Because the point that I was trying to make is that those 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 statistic which made it all to the White House is only possible if you tell women that they were raped even if they themselves say they were not.
The whole rape culture histeria is based on these lies.
And then policies are implemented based on these lies.
And men have their lifes ruined, based on these lies. [/quote]
I don’t disagree that some of this rape culture hysteria has ruined lives. I find problems with its application.
However, the original blog was extreme. It asserted that PIV intercourse was unnatural, and essentially argued women who found it acceptable were brainwashed.
It equated natural PIV intercourse to a form of rape. I don’t see this as coterminous with the rape culture hysteria, which seems to overemphasize preventing what most reasonable people would consider constitutes bona fide rape.
Finally, I have yet to see an argument that any mainstream feminist ideological organization published something as radical as that blog. There’s a difference between focusing on how distorted or not distorted rape statistics are, where rape as a violent crime is concerned, versus making a psychological argument that all consensual acts of vaginal intercourse are a coerced rape of sorts.
Not that posting anything on here is going to make the biggest difference since we all here seem to share the same opinion, but my 2 cents:
The author by admission uses a terrible definition of violence, and then uses that to argue her point. If you look at it then yes the first time a female has penetrative sex it hurts… If you are defining “hurt” as violence then yes, you can call the act of penetration exclusively a violent act. If you believe all forms of violence is wrong then you will, by your own logic believe it to be wrong. That’s fine with me. The reason 99.99% of people don’t is this silly term we all use “context”.
Violence by most part is wrong, but not all forms of violence is wrong for example (s):
-
If I violently pull my 3yr old nephew away from danger (say a flame) then is that wrong. In the process I would shocked him and it may even have hurt his arm. This act will hurt him, but in context it is not wrong.
-
We all by the same definition inflict hurt/violence on ourselves when we enter the gym. It’s painful but we do it because the outcome is either bigger, stronger, leaner, faster!
-
Heck as a kid I was slapped every time I placed a foot wrong by my mum (classic Asian upbringing). Yeah it hurt, but was it wrong… I don’t think so now, haha.
-
why bother forming emotional bonds, people die, leave, breakup etc… that hurts, that’s by definition a violent act.
What the author should be arguing is that men can inflict considerable pain to a women with “PIV” (I dislike this term) and that women should stand up for themselves if that’s the case. That if a man is inflicting you pain, you should have the strength and courage to say “no”, to ask him to change. If he doesn’t, then he is not thinking about you and is entirely in it for himself… then it is violence as the outcome is not what both have consented to… then get up and leave him! (or her, whatever you’re into).
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Nope.
Religion naturally strives to fulfill its rules (eg kill gays and infidels).[/quote]
You’re a fucking idiot. [/quote]
Well when you live in a world of moral relativism, the opposite moral philosophy of religion, you get new terms like PIV and opinions, like that bloggers, are no more or less wrong than anybody else. Apparently terms become so ambiguous, that you have be real specific. Sex alone means nothing, because that could be anal, animal, oral, etc. Anything that stimulates a sexual organ, so you have to be specific.
Most people assume term ‘sex’ means a man and a woman, his penis in her vagina. In the bloggers world, that’s just one way, a lesser way and it’s technically always rape.
[quote]2busy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]2busy wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Is that a real article or a joke? If it’s real those most be some miserable women.[/quote]
It’s a troll job.[/quote]
If you look at the other blog posts from there…
It’s one hell of a lot of troll posting.
For example…
I really think I should make a comment on her blogs[/quote]
Her first order of business is to murder most men outright?
Let’s do it, how do we get an account? [/quote]
I think she would delete the comments, post something about defeating evil men trying to subjugate her.
And then close the comments on her blog. [/quote]
I want to see her picture. My guess is that she looks like somebody who no man would actually want to subjugate with their penis.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
What do the women here think? [/quote]
That it’s a ridiculous bunch of nonsense.[/quote]
Yes, save the penis!
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I just had an opportunity to read the second linked post. I worked briefly with a woman who talked this way - all the men gone and the world better for it. She was a lesbian AND had been peripherally involved in a grisly rape/murder years earlier. Needless to say, it didn’t take long for her to fire me (“not helpful”) and also needless to say, I was relieved.
So there are people who feel as this woman does; I’ve met a grand total of one. I’m sure I’ve encountered men who are inclined similarly toward women, but they would obviously be less apt to admit their feelings to me. Or perhaps the male equivalent posts on Orion’s angry men’s boards, about women crashing the whole world down and then becoming utterly subjugated again.
It’s very sad to think that there are women who assume because of some sort of early sexual trauma that sex is a painful, ripping experience for all women. Perhaps like the NAWALT guys, they believe that when women like me report that my bed is a place of melty good feelings in every regard, I’m somehow duped into complacency.[/quote]
I think a lot of people here are assuming she was traumatized earlier in life, but the fact is that nobody knows if that’s true at all. There’s no evidence she was traumatized sexually or otherwise. She may have had a totally normal placid up bringing and just hates men.
Here she is: