Pastor Dennis Terry and Santorum

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And if we recognize timeless and independent moral actions and thoughts in our interactions and relationships with others, we’re recognizing value inherent to them as others. Inalienable rights.[/quote]

Let me ask you something, what is preventing you from losing your rights right now? Is god going to step in prevent them from being taken away? What if the US fundamentally changes, what are you expecting from this transcendent being of yours??

I haven’t seen any of record of it to this point of god stepping in.

So what are you really clinging to when you are talking about god handing down inalienable rights? Rights are only effective as their willingness to be enforced and granted.

If something is recognized you don’t have it. The slave in the box does not have those rights until they are granted or he fights back for those rights.[/quote]

But how much more will he be willing to take up arms if he knows in his heart that the Lord wants him to be free?

And how much more effective will he be if the people he fights know that to be true too?[/quote]

The bible tells slaves to obey their masters.

None of this applies.

And no, I can’t see by any empirical evidence that slavery is immoral.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And if we recognize timeless and independent moral actions and thoughts in our interactions and relationships with others, we’re recognizing value inherent to them as others. Inalienable rights.[/quote]

Let me ask you something, what is preventing you from losing your rights right now? Is god going to step in prevent them from being taken away? What if the US fundamentally changes, what are you expecting from this transcendent being of yours??

I haven’t seen any of record of it to this point of god stepping in.

So what are you really clinging to when you are talking about god handing down inalienable rights? Rights are only effective as their willingness to be enforced and granted.

If something is recognized you don’t have it. The slave in the box does not have those rights until they are granted or he fights back for those rights.[/quote]

But how much more will he be willing to take up arms if he knows in his heart that the Lord wants him to be free?

And how much more effective will he be if the people he fights know that to be true too?[/quote]

The bible tells slaves to obey their masters.

None of this applies.[/quote]

The bible also says they’re our brothers in creation. Now maybe you, in Christ’s place would’ve led them to a futile slave revolt, and to their slaughter, but that wasn’t Christ’s ‘mission.’

[quote]Sloth wrote:

I can’t lose my rights. Trespassers against them, if not punished in this life, will be punished in the next. My rights don’t depend on my ability to exercise them in the face of oppression and/or social whim. [/quote]

Prove that they will be punished in the next life for me please.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

So those didn’t have any rights. No tragedy happened.[/quote]

Already covered this

[quote]Sloth wrote:

And so long as they aren’t granted, and he can’t, there is nothing immoral about keeping him the box.
[/quote]

Nope. Gays do not have the right to engage in homosexuality activity in other countries without severe punishment and in some cases death.

Putting homosexuals in prison for years is immoral even if they do not have the right to do so in their country.

Women in some countries are unable to walk around without their face covered. They may not have the right in those countries but it’s still immoral to force women to cover their faces.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And if we recognize timeless and independent moral actions and thoughts in our interactions and relationships with others, we’re recognizing value inherent to them as others. Inalienable rights.[/quote]

Let me ask you something, what is preventing you from losing your rights right now? Is god going to step in prevent them from being taken away? What if the US fundamentally changes, what are you expecting from this transcendent being of yours??

I haven’t seen any of record of it to this point of god stepping in.

So what are you really clinging to when you are talking about god handing down inalienable rights? Rights are only effective as their willingness to be enforced and granted.

If something is recognized you don’t have it. The slave in the box does not have those rights until they are granted or he fights back for those rights.[/quote]

But how much more will he be willing to take up arms if he knows in his heart that the Lord wants him to be free?

And how much more effective will he be if the people he fights know that to be true too?[/quote]

The bible tells slaves to obey their masters.

None of this applies.[/quote]

The bible also says they’re our brothers in creation. Now maybe you, in Christ’s place would’ve led them to a futile slave revolt, and to their slaughter, but that wasn’t Christ’s ‘mission.’
[/quote]

And yet people of that time justified slavery by referring to the passage of how to beat your slave and how to own them.

Academics can ‘reason’ infanticide, in a published paper.

Armed robbery, with a gun, is reasonable.

Armed robbery, with a banana, isn’t.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Academics can ‘reason’ infanticide, in a published paper.

Armed robbery, with a gun, is reasonable.

Armed robbery, with a banana, isn’t. [/quote]

Armed robbery itself is unreasonable.

And you missed the part about humans ability to empathize.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Prove that they will be punished in the next life for me please.[/quote]

I don’t claim to be able to. I accept it on faith. No prove slavery is IMMORAL. EVIL. Not your opinion, but empirical evidence. Show me in a microscope or telescope.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

So those didn’t have any rights. No tragedy happened.

Theraj:
Already covered this[/quote]

No you didn’t. You replied with a bizarre something that read like timeless non-timeless moral truths.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

And so long as they aren’t granted, and he can’t, there is nothing immoral about keeping him the box.

Theraj:
Nope. Gays do not have the right to engage in homosexuality activity in other countries without severe punishment and in some cases death.

Putting homosexuals in prison for years is immoral even if they do not have the right to do so in their country.

Women in some countries are unable to walk around without their face covered. They may not have the right in those countries but it’s still immoral to force women to cover their faces.[/quote]

If they don’t have rights, then it isn’t immoral…

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And if we recognize timeless and independent moral actions and thoughts in our interactions and relationships with others, we’re recognizing value inherent to them as others. Inalienable rights.[/quote]

Let me ask you something, what is preventing you from losing your rights right now? Is god going to step in prevent them from being taken away? What if the US fundamentally changes, what are you expecting from this transcendent being of yours??

I haven’t seen any of record of it to this point of god stepping in.

So what are you really clinging to when you are talking about god handing down inalienable rights? Rights are only effective as their willingness to be enforced and granted.

If something is recognized you don’t have it. The slave in the box does not have those rights until they are granted or he fights back for those rights.[/quote]

But how much more will he be willing to take up arms if he knows in his heart that the Lord wants him to be free?

And how much more effective will he be if the people he fights know that to be true too?[/quote]

The bible tells slaves to obey their masters.

None of this applies.[/quote]

And that is your impression of religion?

That it is applied as written?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Academics can ‘reason’ infanticide, in a published paper.

Armed robbery, with a gun, is reasonable.

Armed robbery, with a banana, isn’t. [/quote]

Armed robbery itself is unreasonable.

And you missed the part about humans ability to empathize.

[/quote]

Armed robbery with a gun is reasonable.

Humans can empathize with some person or persons, or not. And, they can empathize, then discard it. They can empathize with their robbery crew, but not the victim. The state atheist could empathize with their own family, their neighbors perhaps, and have nothing for the Russian Orthodox cleric.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

I don’t claim to be able to. I accept it on faith. No prove slavery is IMMORAL. EVIL. Not your opinion, but empirical evidence. Show me in a microscope or telescope.[/quote]

By observing how bad slavery is for the slave we can determine it is immoral. You will not find anyone (except perhaps a few crazies) that want to be enslaved.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And if we recognize timeless and independent moral actions and thoughts in our interactions and relationships with others, we’re recognizing value inherent to them as others. Inalienable rights.[/quote]

Let me ask you something, what is preventing you from losing your rights right now? Is god going to step in prevent them from being taken away? What if the US fundamentally changes, what are you expecting from this transcendent being of yours??

I haven’t seen any of record of it to this point of god stepping in.

So what are you really clinging to when you are talking about god handing down inalienable rights? Rights are only effective as their willingness to be enforced and granted.

If something is recognized you don’t have it. The slave in the box does not have those rights until they are granted or he fights back for those rights.[/quote]

But how much more will he be willing to take up arms if he knows in his heart that the Lord wants him to be free?

And how much more effective will he be if the people he fights know that to be true too?[/quote]

The bible tells slaves to obey their masters.

None of this applies.[/quote]

The bible also says they’re our brothers in creation. Now maybe you, in Christ’s place would’ve led them to a futile slave revolt, and to their slaughter, but that wasn’t Christ’s ‘mission.’
[/quote]

And yet people of that time justified slavery by referring to the passage of how to beat your slave and how to own them.
[/quote]

“Futile” is such a big word.

If you were a bit less ambitious and just were hell bent to make it to Canada your chances were far better.

The rest of your post that I didn’t quote, I’ve already answered and we’re just running in circles.

So long as I am of sound mind, use a gun to rob, I am acting within reason. Risk vs. reward.

If I think surprised home-owners will greet me with cake and ice cream, and marvel at my banana gun, I’m acting without reason.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

I don’t claim to be able to. I accept it on faith. No prove slavery is IMMORAL. EVIL. Not your opinion, but empirical evidence. Show me in a microscope or telescope.[/quote]

By observing how bad slavery is for the slave we can determine it is immoral. You will not find anyone (except perhaps a few crazies) that want to be enslaved.

[/quote]

Not true. Or we wouldn’t have had slavery.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Armed robbery with a gun is reasonable.

[/quote]

By everything we consider moral no it’s not. We can reasonably see it is not moral.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Armed robbery with a gun is reasonable.

[/quote]

By everything we consider moral no it’s not. We can reasonably see it is not moral.

[/quote]

No we can’t.

All you’ve done is say it isn’t. You’ve yet to prove it.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

Armed robbery with a gun is reasonable.

[/quote]

By everything we consider moral no it’s not. We can reasonably see it is not moral.

[/quote]

Well, that is certainly an interesting conflation of terms.

I am afraid you will have to give that up.

Okay, this argument isn’t going anywhere, I’m uninterested in repeating myself.

Yes Sloth, armed robbery is “reasonable” and we can’t figure out without god that it isn’t.

You got me.