If your determined to do this, I second the T-bol suggestion. This drug has lots of research behind it, being as the GDR gave it to thousands of children (some as young as 12, but also to older athletes) and researched it heavily. Google the GDR studies. T-bol is, IMO, the best oral out there.
HH
[quote]flemishlion wrote:
Don’t listen to those mister knowitalls who claim that you piss out all the gains of an all oral cycle.
Allthough I admit that adding an injectable (like winny or test) would be better, you can still make some lasting gains on orals.
As a stand alone, I would recommend 30 days of Anadrol, 100 mg per day. Yes, you will retain some water which you will lose afterwards, but if you train well and, most important, do a good aftercycle, you should be able to keep most of the strenght gains AND at between 5 and 10 pounds of muscle mass. As I said, the aftercycle is here more important than the cycle. I recommend starting the intake of clenbuterol immediately after the Anadrol cycle, starting with 40 mcg gradually climbing up to 100 mcg per day after one week. Do this for another 30 days, and then judge for yourself what your lasting gains are. Due to the anabolic effect of clen during the first 2 weeks of intake, you should be able to keep most of your strenght gains while losing a little weight (water and fat). And as you know, strenght leads to muscle mass…
Don’t forget to take yohimbine (25 mg a day) simultaneously with the clen, otherwise your beta-receptors will be saturated too quickly.
[/quote]
Why use Anadrol, when other, much safer alternatives are available?
HH
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If your determined to do this, I second the T-bol suggestion. This drug has lots of research behind it, being as the GDR gave it to thousands of children (some as young as 12, but also to older athletes) and researched it heavily. Google the GDR studies. T-bol is, IMO, the best oral out there.
HH[/quote]
Yeah I’ve been looking at T-bol alot more, after hearing what a lot of people have said about it. Just wondering what sort of PCT you would have to do after taking it? Some people suggest you wouldn’t have to do a lot to keep the gains, any opinions? Thanks
J
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
flemishlion wrote:
Don’t listen to those mister knowitalls who claim that you piss out all the gains of an all oral cycle.
Allthough I admit that adding an injectable (like winny or test) would be better, you can still make some lasting gains on orals.
As a stand alone, I would recommend 30 days of Anadrol, 100 mg per day. Yes, you will retain some water which you will lose afterwards, but if you train well and, most important, do a good aftercycle, you should be able to keep most of the strenght gains AND at between 5 and 10 pounds of muscle mass. As I said, the aftercycle is here more important than the cycle. I recommend starting the intake of clenbuterol immediately after the Anadrol cycle, starting with 40 mcg gradually climbing up to 100 mcg per day after one week. Do this for another 30 days, and then judge for yourself what your lasting gains are. Due to the anabolic effect of clen during the first 2 weeks of intake, you should be able to keep most of your strenght gains while losing a little weight (water and fat). And as you know, strenght leads to muscle mass…
Don’t forget to take yohimbine (25 mg a day) simultaneously with the clen, otherwise your beta-receptors will be saturated too quickly.
Why use Anadrol, when other, much safer alternatives are available?
HH
[/quote]
drol alone, follwed by clen and yohimbe?! what the hell?! chock full of side effects galore…my blood pressure is rising, i’m bloating up, i have night sweats, and my heart feels ready to explode just reading that stack suggestion. there is no pct either…drol is very supressive…clen supresses as well. there are way way way safer alternatives…and much more effective.
that suggestion just fed the fire of why not to run oral only cycles…cause it sucks.
Just a few observations…
Most of the success stories I’ve seen from oral only cycles have been from lightweights shooting up to middleweight rather than middleweights moving to heavy. At the lighter weights the pounds will go on much easier to begin with and the even just a placebo effect added should yield some results through extra dietary intake and workout intensity.
I think much of the bias towards oral only cycles results from the users of said cycles being often much less knowledgable about what the hell they’re doing than injectable users. Many beginers look towards orals because they see an imaginary line of safety or morality between the two which just plain doesn’t exist. It may be my imagination, but I think most people will do a hell of a lot more research before injecting themselves with something than they will before popping a few pills. This leads to many oral only users being woefully underprepared for managing the sides and PCT, moreso than begining injectable users. This may all just be because once a person researches enough they will realise that the cost/benefits or injectable cycles makes them superior for most uses.
Just noticed you said clen suppresses. I’ve never seen this mentioned. Surely you don’t mean test levels right? I read that it suppresses the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver, but supplementing with taurine will help with that a lot. If you say it suppresses something do you use some kind of PCT?
[quote]T234 wrote:
Just noticed you said clen suppresses. I’ve never seen this mentioned. Surely you don’t mean test levels right? I read that it suppresses the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver, but supplementing with taurine will help with that a lot. If you say it suppresses something do you use some kind of PCT? [/quote]
bah…my bad.
slip of the hand while rushing.
clen is anti-catabolic which may help keep gains post cycle…but it downregulates beta receptors and has shitty sides/potential health risks. the receptor downregulation can be minimized by administartion of benadryl or some similar shit. taurine i think is to help avoid the cramping often associated with clen use. this is the understanding i have at least…in laymans terms.
bottom line IMO, is that 4 weeks of drol…followed by 4 weeks of clen and yohimbe as was suggested, puts the user at risk of severely damaging the heart/cardiovascular system. why bother playing with that type of risk…when there are way more effective and safer methods out there.
[quote]w8dawg wrote:
Blacksnake wrote:
Have you ever felt totally naked and helpless? See yourself standing in front of a “Company Doctor” checking your body for injection sites and having to draw blood for a steroid test, one you can’t refuse (and your career, and the people you support depend upon to exist!!) For the egocentric “doubting thomases” out there, be advised it can and does happen in the real world…
First of all anyone who works someplace where they actually stand you in front of a doctor naked looking for injection marks is an idiot. No job could be that great that it is worth that type of violation of your rights.[/quote]
Oh Yea, that’s definitive…Anyone with responsibilities is just an “idiot” unworthy of the same life choices YOU have…Well excuse us for livin’ and taking up your air, Pal…(It’s real life, and BTW illegal!: Deal with it)…
Sigh The point is not to raise suspicion to get tested in the first flippin’ place…
To Repeat: “It’s similar to any form of bigotry: “Hey I have to suffer with injectables so you need to suffer too, or you are a pussy” mentality…It never seems to occur to these types that there may be a legitimate reason why a RecBB may want to do, or is limited to, an oral only cycle…
Is that it? Sexism? Oral only cycles are only for “girls” and not for “real men” who should shed blood for their muscle enhancement?”…
Bigoted Pinhead? If the shoe fits…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If your determined to do this, I second the T-bol suggestion. This drug has lots of research behind it, being as the GDR gave it to thousands of children (some as young as 12, but also to older athletes) and researched it heavily. Google the GDR studies. T-bol is, IMO, the best oral out there.
HH[/quote]
Thanks for trying to contibute something constructive and informative…PCT for this oral, however, is the paramount concern, since there appears to be no significant info on the subject, this is where help is needed…
[quote]etaco wrote:
Just a few observations…
Most of the success stories I’ve seen from oral only cycles have been from lightweights shooting up to middleweight rather than middleweights moving to heavy. At the lighter weights the pounds will go on much easier to begin with and the even just a placebo effect added should yield some results through extra dietary intake and workout intensity.
Observations worth taking seriously, logical hypothesis…The concern, INVHO however, is limited to trainers who have intentionally taken the milder effects in consideration as a strategy rather than “settling” for inferior gains, the idea being not to raise unexplainable suspicion in certain contexts (Hey there Clem, yo’ arms are geetin’ big, whutup’ wit’ dem zits on ya’ back there/;D)…Anyway, The original thrust was proper PCT for oral turinabol…
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
Observations worth taking seriously, logical hypothesis…The concern, INVHO however, is limited to trainers who have intentionally taken the milder effects in consideration as a strategy rather than “settling” for inferior gains, the idea being not to raise unexplainable suspicion in certain contexts (Hey there Clem, yo’ arms are geetin’ big, whutup’ wit’ dem zits on ya’ back there/;D)…Anyway, The original thrust was proper PCT for oral turinabol…
[/quote]
If the goals are intentionally modest and the dosages and cycle lengths are similarly limited, then the oral-only cycle makes sense. I doubt the majority of oral-only users are trying to do it this way or for these reasons though. As for PCT, I’m certainly no authority but I don’t see why a standard PCT protocol wouldn’t be appropriate. 4 weeks is going too be a little long to try to apply the strategies used for mini-cycles but too short for some of the more elaborate methods to be considered.
…to the OP. Whatever you decide to do, make absolutely sure you run a good kidney and liver recuperation cycle afterwards, continueing a couple of weeks beyond your PCT!
No one has taken into account potential customs problems with attempting to get injectable products via mail.
Im training in a police youth club and tho there are at least 2 guys there that certainly appear to be using,im not about to be asking people i dont know about gear,specially with all the cops training there.i opted for redi cats paper turin,and tho the gains havent been to exciting,i have added 2kgs and am stronger and more vascular,so something is happening.
that at running 20 mg 1st week,30 second and 40mg the last 2 weeks,only half way thru 4th week tho.Am using liver protective supplements and eating lots of good,clean food.2 more weeks to go,and hopefully i will add a couple more kgs.Ive trained thus far for 20yrs naturally,so if i can add 3-4 kgs of lean muscle in 6 weeks ill be pretty stoked.
[quote]mntnbiker wrote:
that at running 20 mg 1st week,30 second and 40mg the last 2 weeks,only half way thru 4th week tho.Am using liver protective supplements and eating lots of good,clean food.2 more weeks to go,and hopefully i will add a couple more kgs.Ive trained thus far for 20yrs naturally,so if i can add 3-4 kgs of lean muscle in 6 weeks ill be pretty stoked. [/quote]
Why did you choose to ramp the dosages? I was under the impression that this wasn’t a great idea with compounds like OT, var, etc. The way some of the vets laid it out was that if you ramp and realize once you’re underway that your dosages were too low, you don’t have enough time on a relatively short 6-8 week cycle to fix things and reap all the benefits of a higher dose.
I’m not knocking the idea of an oral-only cycle, btw.
I would agree with InCorporeSano,
ramping up with Turin is a waste.
Start with 50 or 60 mg of OT and stay with it for 6 weeks. I am thinking that adding 10mg of Dianabol would produce better results and still be very safe. You would need some AE while usind Dianabol,
(it’s a very low dose but just in case) and be aware that this could cause some hair loss so you could use some Minoxidil/Rogain (you can use proscar/propecia but that might interfere with your gains). Use milk thistle and NAC while on and drink a lot of water. Nolva for two weeks after.
Another interesting combo would be OT and MAG-10 but I don’t know if anyone has ever tried it.
well 6 weeks of a weak steroid such as dball wont do much…I love anadrol…as an oral nothing compares but I would suggest doing it for 3 weeks at a time
Is the “excessive” water retention from Anadrol caused by aromatisation? Would Adex take care of that? I’d find it depressing to piss away 10 pounds of water post cycle.
Yeah who needs to gain 10 lean keepable pounds on a 6 week turanabol cycle and keep your hair at the same time. Listen to Npccompetitor and stay away from “weak” shit like Dianabol. It won’t make you bald enough. Do lots of heavy androgens so you can loose a shit load of hair, and piss out 30 pounds of water you thought were gains after your cycle is over. The gains may go, but at least the baldness is there to stay- so when you shrink back to your original size at least you can feel like the 400 bucks you spent on the juice did something permanent.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Whooo, this is a feisty little thread eh?[/quote]
Yeah,it is, Bushy…Yet and still no one has addressed the flippin’ orignal question: proper PCT for an OT (or anavar) cycle for a male…