[quote]pookie wrote:
Again, I contend that on some matter, mostly those involving concepts like life, justice, good, evil, etc. Truth is relative to the values you hold dear…[/quote]
I’m curious as to what exactly is your criterion for judging something “good, evil, etc.”? What is your standard for judging what is just, good, or evil? In other words, how do you KNOW that something is just, good, or evil? To whom or what do you appeal to bolster your position that something is just, good, or evil? It seems that with your particular(I’m guessing atheistic or agnostic) view, murder or rape should be as easy to commend as to condemn. I don’t see how you can consistently commend or condemn anything.
You said: “Truth is relative to the values you hold dear.” Do you believe that there is such a thing as absolute truth?
The whole “truth is relative” position is self-refuting because according to it, you cannot consistently condemn ANYONE for ANYTHING, for they are just doing what is “true for them.”
[quote]pookie wrote:
There’s enough stuff in the Bible to argue for or against on just about any issue. The book of Leviticus is quite useful for anyone who wishes to curtail freedoms and restrict behaviors; other parts are readily used to support said behaviors. Here too, it seems that the “truth” is colored by the opinions and values you have on the issue at hand.[/quote]
Right. Many people pervert and twist the Scriptures to their own destruction. One reason for this is that they do not start at the axiom of Scripture. They say Scripture is not sufficient, and certainly they will come to different conclusions if they have a different starting point.
“And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation, as also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him;
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:15-16).
[quote]pookie wrote:
Well, I’ve read the Bible and some parts of it do a pretty good job of tainting it by themselves. The old testament is filled with massacres, plagues, “thou shalt not” and “surely be put to death.”[/quote]
And speaking of plagues:
“Israel also came into Egypt, And Jacob dwelt in the land of Ham. He increased His people greatly, And made them stronger than their enemies.”
“He turned their heart to hate His people, To deal craftily with His servants.”
“He sent Moses His servant, And Aaron whom He had chosen. They performed His signs among them, And wonders in the land of Ham” (Psalm 105:23-27).
Note that God, through the psalmist says, “He turned their heart to hate His people.” God caused (i.e., turned) the heart of the Egyptians to hate His people Israel in order to muliply His wonders (the ten plagues) and to destroy the Egyptians. At the end of the day, BOTH the Egyptians and the Israelites knew who was the LORD.
God, in order to multiply the ten plagues, hardened the heart of Pharaoh. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order to display His power in Pharaoh. Will anyone say, “We have power too, we have the power of free-will”? God turned the hearts of the Egyptians. God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. God raised up Pharaoh in order to dash Him to the ground as a vessel of wrath prepared for destruction (Romans 9:22). Perhaps Pharaoh also thought that he was given free-will. Yet what Pharaoh mistakenly thought was conciousness of free-will, was in reality, unconsciousness of Divine determinism.
“For He said to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will pity whomever I will pity.” (Ex. 33:19) So, then, it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of the One showing mercy, of God.
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very thing I raised you up, so that I might display My power in you, and so that My name might be publicized in all the earth.” (Ex. 9:16) So, then, to whom He desires, He shows mercy. And to whom He desires, He hardens. You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will? Yes, rather, O man, who are you answering against God? Shall the thing formed say to the One forming it, Why did You make me like this? Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the one lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor? But if God, desiring to demonstrate His wrath, and to make His power known, endured in much long-suffering vessels of wrath having been fitted out for destruction, and that He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which He before prepared for glory, whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also out of nations” (Romans 9:15-24).
