One Good Democrat?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I see. If a “socialist” government does it, it’s mass murder, but if a capitalist government does it, you get to call it “war,” and it’s OK.

By the way, if you don’t see that the economic system has anything to do with it, then what are you blaming socialism for? It is an economic system.
[/quote]

Yeah well, leaving wars aside for a moment, the last mass starvations in a capitalist country was the Irish Famine, whereas it happened regularily in China, Russia, Cambodia, because of failed policies and sometimes because it was used as a weapon.

Greedy capitalist pigs tend not to let their customers starve, really bad for business.

[/quote]

And thank you for doing a wonderful job of developing agriculture. Now that capitalism is obsolete, socialism will take it from here.

122

[quote]molnes wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I think the bottom line is that capitalist nations can be dictatorships, but socialist nations must be dictatorships.

The socialisation of the means of production hardly leaves room for anything else.
[/quote]
Wrong again. Bolivia is both a democracy and a socialist state. The Socialist party that’s currently in power (Movement for Socialism), was voted in with 64 percent of the votes in 2009. The party has been in power since 2005, and winning another election with such solid numbers is very rare for any country, especially Bolivia which historically has been ruled by a lot of coalition governments. Which Means they probably are doing something right…

[quote]
Really?

Where, Zimbawbe?

Because they exported food like cracy before Mugabe decided to redistribute land to farmers that did not have the CAPITAL to realize solid yields.

The fact that they also believed that being a capitalist is so easy that everyone can do it by comitee did not helo either. [/quote]
In Niger, for instance (no I did not drop the N-bomb, the country of Niger). Where capitalism directly contributed to making things a lot worse than it had to be. The poor could not afford the food that was being produced so a lot was exported to neighbouring countries. The market is random. It’s such a naive notion to believe that the market always magically sorts things out. It doesn’t work like that in the real world.[/quote]

Socialist democracies are still dictatorships.

It is just a tyranny of the majority, a dictatorship of the proletariate if you will.

As for Niger, I have no idea, but I doubt that the market has failed them. Unless of course you define “failed” as any result you do not like, then it might have.

123

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I see. If a “socialist” government does it, it’s mass murder, but if a capitalist government does it, you get to call it “war,” and it’s OK.

By the way, if you don’t see that the economic system has anything to do with it, then what are you blaming socialism for? It is an economic system.
[/quote]

Yeah well, leaving wars aside for a moment, the last mass starvations in a capitalist country was the Irish Famine, whereas it happened regularily in China, Russia, Cambodia, because of failed policies and sometimes because it was used as a weapon.

Greedy capitalist pigs tend not to let their customers starve, really bad for business.

[/quote]

And thank you for doing a wonderful job of developing agriculture. Now that capitalism is obsolete, socialism will take it from here.[/quote]

Well so far the results are food shortages, hyperinflation, violent racism and a brakdown of economic activity.

Keep up the good work!

124

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
pushitdeeperintomyass [/quote]

Freud says you have a crush on Pushy.

125

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I see. If a “socialist” government does it, it’s mass murder, but if a capitalist government does it, you get to call it “war,” and it’s OK.

By the way, if you don’t see that the economic system has anything to do with it, then what are you blaming socialism for? It is an economic system.
[/quote]

Yeah well, leaving wars aside for a moment, the last mass starvations in a capitalist country was the Irish Famine, whereas it happened regularily in China, Russia, Cambodia, because of failed policies and sometimes because it was used as a weapon.

Greedy capitalist pigs tend not to let their customers starve, really bad for business.

[/quote]

And thank you for doing a wonderful job of developing agriculture. Now that capitalism is obsolete, socialism will take it from here.[/quote]

You might try understanding the basic tenants of capitalism before you dismiss it as obsolete.

126

[quote]Dustin wrote:No, I’m telling you that wars are an action of the state, no matter what its economic system might be. Mass murder is mass murder.

Western states kill people in wars and so did the Soviet Union. Their economic system is irrelevant.

You claim that I argue semantics to protect my ideology, yet you are doing just that right here.[/quote]

I’m trying to understand your vague statement.

Oh really? Perhaps not right here, right now, but are you not aware of the persecution of communists, real or suspected in this country? The harassment of anarchists and union leaders, many of whom have been wrongly jailed or killed for their beliefs? This type of persecution is simply unnecessary in our country now, owing to a successful propaganda campaign.

Ask a Chilean who lived under Pinochet, or a Brazilian who lived under the military government after 1964, or an Argentinian who lived under General Videla what happened to anyone who questioned capitalism.

Not if you look past the official version of events.

As well you shouldn’t, since we’ve killed as many or more people in support of capitalism than the USSR did for socialism.

127

[quote]molnes wrote:Wrong again. Bolivia is both a democracy and a socialist state. The Socialist party that’s currently in power (Movement for Socialism), was voted in with 64 percent of the votes in 2009. The party has been in power since 2005, and winning another election with such solid numbers is very rare for any country, especially Bolivia which historically has been ruled by a lot of coalition governments. Which Means they probably are doing something right…
[/quote]

Uh, molnes, what are you doing? Don’t you know that real life doesn’t count? You can’t just look out the window and see what happens, you’ve got to logically deduce it.

128

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
pushitdeeperintomyass [/quote]

Freud says you have a crush on Pushy.
[/quote]

The combination of your new avatar and your post is a recipe for Win!

129

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I see. If a “socialist” government does it, it’s mass murder, but if a capitalist government does it, you get to call it “war,” and it’s OK.

By the way, if you don’t see that the economic system has anything to do with it, then what are you blaming socialism for? It is an economic system.
[/quote]

Yeah well, leaving wars aside for a moment, the last mass starvations in a capitalist country was the Irish Famine, whereas it happened regularily in China, Russia, Cambodia, because of failed policies and sometimes because it was used as a weapon.

Greedy capitalist pigs tend not to let their customers starve, really bad for business.

[/quote]

And thank you for doing a wonderful job of developing agriculture. Now that capitalism is obsolete, socialism will take it from here.[/quote]

Well so far the results are food shortages, hyperinflation, violent racism and a brakdown of economic activity.

Keep up the good work!

[/quote]

Well, you take pride in these results when they are the result of capitalism, so I see no reason to object.

130

On the contrary: to hold any other opinion requires that one not understand it.

131

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I see. If a “socialist” government does it, it’s mass murder, but if a capitalist government does it, you get to call it “war,” and it’s OK.

By the way, if you don’t see that the economic system has anything to do with it, then what are you blaming socialism for? It is an economic system.
[/quote]

Yeah well, leaving wars aside for a moment, the last mass starvations in a capitalist country was the Irish Famine, whereas it happened regularily in China, Russia, Cambodia, because of failed policies and sometimes because it was used as a weapon.

Greedy capitalist pigs tend not to let their customers starve, really bad for business.

[/quote]

And thank you for doing a wonderful job of developing agriculture. Now that capitalism is obsolete, socialism will take it from here.[/quote]

Well so far the results are food shortages, hyperinflation, violent racism and a brakdown of economic activity.

Keep up the good work!

[/quote]

Well, you take pride in these results when they are the result of capitalism, so I see no reason to object.[/quote]

Show me one, just one instane of that happening because of capitalism.

Free people, free markets —> death and destruction. When, where, how.

132

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Dustin wrote:No, I’m telling you that wars are an action of the state, no matter what its economic system might be. Mass murder is mass murder.

Western states kill people in wars and so did the Soviet Union. Their economic system is irrelevant.

You claim that I argue semantics to protect my ideology, yet you are doing just that right here.[/quote]

How many times do I need to repeat it?

I’m aware of all this, but it still doesn’t change the fact that I would rather take my chances living here in the states than I would your Soviet Union or China.

???

I don’t mind the ideological differences you might have with some of us that post here, but I do have a problem when you post blatant lies and/or misinformation.

133

I already meantioned several. Look at Chile. Their economy contracted 15% thanks to Friedman’s moronic policies. Inflation was twice what it was under Allende. Even after their economy eventually stabilized, in the late 1980s, half the population was below the poverty line. You’ll find similar results in all of our South American experiments.

Not to mention the repeated boom-and-bust cycles in American history which ground production to a halt.

Russia’s transition to capitalism wasn’t that sunny, either.

134

You don’t need to repeat it, Einstein, you need to express yourself more clearly. “Mass murder is mass murder.” What is that supposed to mean?

I would too, no doubt, since many socialists were jailed and killed in the Soviet Union. It is for this reason that they are not “my” Soviet Union or PRC.

[quote]???

I don’t mind the ideological differences you might have with some of us that post here, but I do have a problem when you post blatant lies and/or misinformation.[/quote]

You have no problem with blatant lies or misinformation. That’s why you have a problem with me, since I prefer the truth, whether it is American or not, capitalist or not.

At any rate, go through history, add it up. You have millions in southeast Asia, hundreds of thousands in Japan, hundred of thousands in Latin America, over a million in Iraq, and you’ve still got plenty left.

135

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Dustin wrote:How many times do I need to repeat it?

You don’t need to repeat it, Einstein, you need to express yourself more clearly. “Mass murder is mass murder.” What is that supposed to mean? [/quote]

It means states commit mass murder through wars, but their economic system is not the motivating factor. I also made the comment below.


Western states kill people in wars and so did the Soviet Union. Their economic system is irrelevant.

Now I have broken it down for you Barney style. Are you still lost comrade?

[quote]???

I don’t mind the ideological differences you might have with some of us that post here, but I do have a problem when you post blatant lies and/or misinformation.

You have no problem with blatant lies or misinformation. That’s why you have a problem with me, since I prefer the truth, whether it is American or not, capitalist or not.[/quote]

Sorry, I was unaware that capitalism killed people. Thanks for setting me straight.

136

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Yes I knew that. But you probably didn’t know that it was the raising of taxes and decrease in spending (because of, surprise, deficit hawks’ constant whining–where have I seen that before?) that caused the economy to relapse.
[/quote]

Yes, the raising of taxes, which contributes to people having less money, which leads to what you mentioned less spending, because of the socialistic policies of FDR. Thanks for reinforcing our point.

137

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Dustin wrote:How many times do I need to repeat it?

You don’t need to repeat it, Einstein, you need to express yourself more clearly. “Mass murder is mass murder.” What is that supposed to mean? [/quote]

It means states commit mass murder through wars, but their economic system is not the motivating factor. I also made the comment below.


Western states kill people in wars and so did the Soviet Union. Their economic system is irrelevant.

Now I have broken it down for you Barney style. Are you still lost comrade?

[quote]???

I don’t mind the ideological differences you might have with some of us that post here, but I do have a problem when you post blatant lies and/or misinformation.

You have no problem with blatant lies or misinformation. That’s why you have a problem with me, since I prefer the truth, whether it is American or not, capitalist or not.[/quote]

Sorry, I was unaware that capitalism killed people. Thanks for setting me straight.

[/quote]

I can only surmise from this post that you have no objections to my statements.

138

[quote]gunsaregood wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

Yes I knew that. But you probably didn’t know that it was the raising of taxes and decrease in spending (because of, surprise, deficit hawks’ constant whining–where have I seen that before?) that caused the economy to relapse.
[/quote]

Yes, the raising of taxes, which contributes to people having less money, which leads to what you mentioned less spending, because of the socialistic policies of FDR. Thanks for reinforcing our point.[/quote]

You miss the point: the market already made sure no one had any money. That’s why the government must spend: the upper classes who have it are unwilling to spend it, and no one else has any.

139

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

I can only surmise from this post that you have no objections to my statements.[/quote]

Ever notice that most people that respond to you only do so 3 or 4 times? It’s because you are a lost cause.

You wouldn’t know the truth if it walked up and kicked you in the jimmy.

140

Yes, I have noticed that. Having your fundamental beliefs shredded gets uncomfortable after three or four posts. Notice for instance how orion retreats after being shown the idiocy of one of his statements.

And yes, keep telling yourself you are right. I’m sure you’ve really thought about things, and it’s just a coincidence that you started out with all the correct opinions.