One Good Democrat?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]Dabba wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

No, you prefer the agenda, as shown by the fact that you think Russia and North Korea are/were communist.
[/quote]

I just have to point out the irony here. You deride someone by saying that their position could be dumbed down to semantics such as: “That’s not real capitalism!”. Then when someone names two of the most (in)famous self-proclaimed communist countries in history, you proclaim “That’s not real communism!”.[/quote]

That’s typical Ryan McCarter.
[/quote]

Well how would you like to consistently have to defend the Yugo of political systems?

If you can even get the damn thing out of your driveway you know it’s constantly going to break down out on the highway. Then when the Lincolns, Hondas and Mercedes going screaming by at 75 mph young laddie Ryan shakes his fist and gives the finger and screams, “My car’s better than yours…you’ll see! You’ll see, dammit! Just give it another chance!”[/quote]

A daunting task, indeed.

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]AdamDrew wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
That’s just it–he’s not.

He’s clueless.[/quote]

You’re right Ryan! he is clueless, which is exactly his point. The Fed does whatever they want with your money and answers to nobody. How do you support that? Seeing as you only elaborate upon your POV upon request, please explain to me the pros of the Federal Reserve and how they enhance your quality of life. The Fed is one of the most blatant examples of the constitution being shit on. I don’t know much about Grayson, but I support him on this issue. [/quote]

The simple fact, obvious to anyone who cares to open a history book (precious few Libertarians, it seems) is that the Federal Reserve has for the most part been quite successful in stabilizing the capitalist system. The Libertarians, in their religious devotion to the fantasy of a stable, self-regulating market, presume that markets can make no mistakes, and so the Fed is only an undesirable impurity staining the virtuous system of capitalism, a point of view which is completely ahistorical, and makes the establishment of the Fed quite a mystery indeed. From these mistaken assumptions, they proceed to draw ridiculous conclusions.[/quote]

I have a whole library of history books that I crack open on a weekly basis, so please do not think that your little snark remark has much weight with me. The Federal Reserve has not be successful at anything except making depressions deeper and longer, unless your stabilization is equivalent to instead of a quick stroke of the straight razor to shave off a man’s stubble you take a slow deep stroke to the bone.

A Libertarian knows that “the market” is not stable, only efficient markets are stable, and since there is no way to have an efficient market it will also not be stable. However undue regulations by state governments, Central Banks, &c. do not help stabilize markets, but actually push it farther away from a stable environment.

[quote]gunsaregood wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

No, you prefer the agenda, as shown by the fact that you think Russia and North Korea are/were communist.
[/quote]

What countries are communist to you? [/quote]

None. Communism is the stateless society which comes after socialism.

[quote]Dabba wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

No, you prefer the agenda, as shown by the fact that you think Russia and North Korea are/were communist.
[/quote]

I just have to point out the irony here. You deride someone by saying that their position could be dumbed down to semantics such as: “That’s not real capitalism!”. Then when someone names two of the most (in)famous self-proclaimed communist countries in history, you proclaim “That’s not real communism!”.[/quote]

The difference is, the so-called communist countries have none of the qualities contained in the definition of communism.

[quote]pushharder wrote:Well how would you like to consistently have to defend the Yugo of political systems?

If you can even get the damn thing out of your driveway you know it’s constantly going to break down out on the highway. Then when the Lincolns, Hondas and Mercedes going screaming by at 75 mph young laddie Ryan shakes his fist and gives the finger and screams, “My car’s better than yours…you’ll see! You’ll see, dammit! Just give it another chance!”[/quote]

He says as global capitalism is falling down around his ears. Thank you, push.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:I have a whole library of history books that I crack open on a weekly basis, so please do not think that your little snark remark has much weight with me. The Federal Reserve has not be successful at anything except making depressions deeper and longer, unless your stabilization is equivalent to instead of a quick stroke of the straight razor to shave off a man’s stubble you take a slow deep stroke to the bone.

A Libertarian knows that “the market” is not stable, only efficient markets are stable, and since there is no way to have an efficient market it will also not be stable. However undue regulations by state governments, Central Banks, &c. do not help stabilize markets, but actually push it farther away from a stable environment.
[/quote]

Rant all you want, history is clear: people used to take to the streets and set things on fire during economic downturns. They tend not to these days. That pretty much sums things up.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

He says as global socialism is falling down around his ears. Thank you, push.
[/quote]

Always havin’ to fix stuff fer ya, Vladimir.[/quote]

Haha! Now that capitalism is having problems, it’s socialism all of a sudden!

I like your strategy: your system having problems? Just change the name!

Alright, fine. Now socialism has produced the highest standard of living in history. Strange you don’t like it.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:

He says as global socialism is falling down around his ears. Thank you, push.
[/quote]

Always havin’ to fix stuff fer ya, Vladimir.[/quote]

Haha! Now that capitalism is having problems, it’s socialism all of a sudden!

I like your strategy: your system having problems? Just change the name!
[/quote]

Tell us all about how capitalism is running Greece into the poor house, Karl.[/quote]

Well, if you bothered to keep up, you’d know that it did, thanks to the conservative party that was in power before. Seems conservatives are the same everywhere. They had to vote in the socialists to implement reasonable fiscal policies.

Very interesting post, push, good point.

Another excellent, well-thought-out contribution.

First off, let me say that anyone ranting on here about issues and backing the constitution and bill of rights that subsequently tells someone to leave (usually in a rather harsh tone) or tells someone to shut up needs to think a little harder. The first amendment of the Bill of Rights, the same bill you adamantly stand up for, grants that person freedom of speech. Ryan-I guess my wording on “the wrong books” could have been better. I am in awe of your perpective and actually appreciate your input. I came across this:

Our 16th President, Abraham Lincoln wasnâ??t as fortunate as Andrew Jackson. It can be argued that â??the Bankâ?? killed Lincoln. He took on the banking interests during the Civil War. The banks were charging the government usurious interest rates on the funds Lincoln needed to fight the war. So Lincoln heeded Thomas Jeffersonâ??s advice and made the bold move of taking on the bankers by creating a new money system and issuing â??green backsâ?? as the new currency. Shortly before he was assassinated, he had this to say:

â??The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.â??

Lincoln then prophetically added:

â??I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my Country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed.â??

Many will argue that Lincoln was proved right and the Republic was destroyed some years later in 1913, when the Federal Reserve Act was signed into law. In 1913, U.S. Congressman Charles Lindbergh famously argued: â??The [Federal Reserve] Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President signs this Bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized. The greatest crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency billâ?¦. From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.â??

In fact, President Woodrow Wilson, in 1916, looking back at his signing of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, considered it the most tragic and biggest mistake of his presidency and said this:

â??I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial Nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world, no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.â??

Did you see the end of Lindbergh’s quote? “From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.” This insert came from here: AMPEDSTATUS.COM - Everything AMPED

Read that and watch “Money Masters.” If your point of view on this issue isn’t affected by this, then there is something terribly wrong with you. Please provide me with some books or other sources that will help me see things the way you do. I don’t think people truly have an “informed” opinion until they study material from both sides of the aisle. Put me in your shoes, as I have tried to do for you, and then we can continue this debate.