Obesity a Disease

Off Topic
41

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity

42

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity[/quote]

There is a genetic component in 100% of the cases.

Otherwise they would not be obese.

43

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity[/quote]

There is a genetic component in 100% of the cases.

Otherwise they would not be obese.[/quote]

yeah, I guess you could say that. I was more referring to the ob/ob and db/db genetic component specifically though with my statment

44


This was posted by “Kairiki” in another thread. Had to post it here.

45

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity[/quote]

There is a genetic component in 100% of the cases.

Otherwise they would not be obese.[/quote]

So, it’s their genetics fault that they don’t exercise and eat like crap? I don’t buy it.

46

Sure the FTO gene has an effect on obesity, but it’s no excuse to not do something about it through diet and exercise intervention.

47

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity[/quote]

There is a genetic component in 100% of the cases.

Otherwise they would not be obese.[/quote]

So, it’s their genetics fault that they don’t exercise and eat like crap? I don’t buy it.
[/quote]

On a very fundamental level, if you could not store fat, you would not.

On a less fundamental level, there were studies with prisoners who were overfed for months.

One guy ate 10000 calories a day for 9 months and gained… a whopping 4,5 lbs.

I can do that on a weekend.

48

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity[/quote]

There is a genetic component in 100% of the cases.

Otherwise they would not be obese.[/quote]

So, it’s their genetics fault that they don’t exercise and eat like crap? I don’t buy it.
[/quote]

On a very fundamental level, if you could not store fat, you would not.

On a less fundamental level, there were studies with prisoners who were overfed for months.

One guy ate 10000 calories a day for 9 months and gained… a whopping 4,5 lbs.

I can do that on a weekend.
[/quote]

I don’t know why it is so hard to accept that genetics play a role on how people bodies respond to bad eating habits and what the controversy is. It is a fact that genetics play a role. If someone wants to screw themselves over by lying to themselves by choosing to believe they are doomed then whatever, these people will lie to themselves no matter what. But it’s ridiculous to think that the medical community, a field grounded in SCIENCE, not playing head games trying to condone this or not condone that bullshit, should deny a fact so you jackasses can moralize people’s eating habits.

late onset diabetes has a genetic component. It is also caused by lifestyle choices. By the brilliant logic in this thread we should refuse to do any research or analysis on the causes of diabetes because the fatties do it to themselves.

No wonder people are so ignorant and so fucked when it comes to health and nutrition in this part of the world. Everyone has so much bullshit invested to the point of wanting to withhold scientific facts for fear that it sends the wrong message. Facts do not send the wrong message. They are just facts.

edit: Orion that was not at you :slight_smile:

49

Remember when were kids in high school and they showed those terrible movies of the concentration camps, usually a prisoner was only in those for 6 months at the maximum. I did not see one fat person.

Adult onset diabetes is Culinary not Hereditary. Only diabetes that is Hereditary is Type 1.

Most type 2 diabetes is completely controllable with no medicine or insulin if proper eating habits and exercise is in place.

I have been a pt for 14 years now and work with Diabetics all the time and Obese people, guess what they all have very poor eating habits. Every single one.

Facts can be manipulated very easy as well by “scientists” if they are backed by a grant to prove something so they can keep their grant money coming in…

How do we explain the meteoric rise in obesity ? I know it was a time release gene, not peoples lack of exercise, poor eating habits and un-willing to say it’s my fault.

50

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Remember when were kids in high school and they showed those terrible movies of the concentration camps, usually a prisoner was only in those for 6 months at the maximum. I did not see one fat person.

Adult onset diabetes is Culinary not Hereditary. Only diabetes that is Hereditary is Type 1.

Most type 2 diabetes is completely controllable with no medicine or insulin if proper eating habits and exercise is in place.

I have been a pt for 14 years now and work with Diabetics all the time and Obese people, guess what they all have very poor eating habits. Every single one.

Facts can be manipulated very easy as well by “scientists” if they are backed by a grant to prove something so they can keep their grant money coming in…

How do we explain the meteoric rise in obesity ? I know it was a time release gene, not peoples lack of exercise, poor eating habits and un-willing to say it’s my fault.[/quote]

I’d sit here and copy and paste links to a dozen studies discussing genetic components to type 2 diabetes, but instead I’ll just introduce you to science direct.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science

You’re a pt and work with obese people and diabetics? So than you must also know that not all people with type 2 diabetes are obese. Strange how that happens since its entirely “culinary”

Funny how people who don’t know the science always blame “manipulation of data” and the “need for funding” to explain results they disagree with, even when they have no experience in the field the research was performed in.

51

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Remember when were kids in high school and they showed those terrible movies of the concentration camps, usually a prisoner was only in those for 6 months at the maximum. I did not see one fat person.

Adult onset diabetes is Culinary not Hereditary. Only diabetes that is Hereditary is Type 1.

Most type 2 diabetes is completely controllable with no medicine or insulin if proper eating habits and exercise is in place.

I have been a pt for 14 years now and work with Diabetics all the time and Obese people, guess what they all have very poor eating habits. Every single one.

Facts can be manipulated very easy as well by “scientists” if they are backed by a grant to prove something so they can keep their grant money coming in…

How do we explain the meteoric rise in obesity ? I know it was a time release gene, not peoples lack of exercise, poor eating habits and un-willing to say it’s my fault.[/quote]

Type 2 is more genetic than type 1 actually. Not sure where you got your information from.

There is also research that shows obesity is a sign of starvation and poverty in the persons genetic past, meaning their ancestors went through it. That’s epigenetics though, how or if the genes are expressed, but whatever.

Can’t appetite be genetic/epigenetic?

You just can’t know what it’s like to be someone else.

But yes everyone should be eating better and moving more, especially moving more.

52

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Remember when were kids in high school and they showed those terrible movies of the concentration camps, usually a prisoner was only in those for 6 months at the maximum. I did not see one fat person.

Adult onset diabetes is Culinary not Hereditary. Only diabetes that is Hereditary is Type 1.

Most type 2 diabetes is completely controllable with no medicine or insulin if proper eating habits and exercise is in place.

I have been a pt for 14 years now and work with Diabetics all the time and Obese people, guess what they all have very poor eating habits. Every single one.

Facts can be manipulated very easy as well by “scientists” if they are backed by a grant to prove something so they can keep their grant money coming in…

How do we explain the meteoric rise in obesity ? I know it was a time release gene, not peoples lack of exercise, poor eating habits and un-willing to say it’s my fault.[/quote]

I’d sit here and copy and paste links to a dozen studies discussing genetic components to type 2 diabetes, but instead I’ll just introduce you to science direct.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science

You’re a pt and work with obese people and diabetics? So than you must also know that not all people with type 2 diabetes are obese. Strange how that happens since its entirely “culinary”

Funny how people who don’t know the science always blame “manipulation of data” and the “need for funding” to explain results they disagree with, even when they have no experience in the field the research was performed in.

[/quote]

I didn’t say obesity equals diabetes or vice versa. But I did say their eating habits were very poor and both usually are very sedentary.

Ok whatever… you go on with your views and I will keep on helping people out who want to take control of themselves and quit looking for excuses and explanations as why they are fat or became diabetic.

53

Ley’s take the worst case possible. If that person takes proper medication,exercises and eats right, wouldn’t he/she be a healthy human? I don’t know the answer but I bet my ass it will be yes. So, it might be more difficult for hem to achieve a halthy status, but they could do it.

These guys in my books are called “fucking fat fucks”. If someone who eats right, exercises regularly, is otherwise healthy, and can;t lose weight, then for that poor guy, I feel sympathy. But my gues is there is not a single person on this planet who matches my description.

54

[quote]B to the rian wrote:

Sure the FTO gene has an effect on obesity, but it’s no excuse to not do something about it through diet and exercise intervention.[/quote]

Best part of entire discussion.

Great abstract.

55

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Ley’s take the worst case possible. If that person takes proper medication,exercises and eats right, wouldn’t he/she be a healthy human? I don’t know the answer but I bet my ass it will be yes. So, it might be more difficult for hem to achieve a halthy status, but they could do it.

These guys in my books are called “fucking fat fucks”. If someone who eats right, exercises regularly, is otherwise healthy, and can;t lose weight, then for that poor guy, I feel sympathy. But my gues is there is not a single person on this planet who matches my description.[/quote]

There are some medications and conditions that make it very difficult to lose weight and often very easy to gain weight.

I agree that exercise and diet must be attended to in these situation but the end goal might be greatly different than toned and lean.

56

So am I to understand that we have had gene’s from the beginning of time immortal and all of a sudden in the last twenty years as diabetes and obesity have risen 500% that the gene’s have just become retarded or defective?

Sure everyone has their own set but how about OWNING your self instead of being a bitch to your own laziness. Where did personal responsibility go? Oh yeah, that’s right…a six million dollar settlement with McFat when a women put HOT COFFEE in her crotch, (C). Lets take back our selves and our responsibilities !

57

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
So am I to understand that we have had gene’s from the beginning of time immortal and all of a sudden in the last twenty years as diabetes and obesity have risen 500% that the gene’s have just become retarded or defective?

Sure everyone has their own set but how about OWNING your self instead of being a bitch to your own laziness. Where did personal responsibility go? Oh yeah, that’s right…a six million dollar settlement with McFat when a women put HOT COFFEE in her crotch, (C). Lets take back our selves and our responsibilities ![/quote]

This mysterious gene doesn’t seem to affect people from poor (European) countries either, as I stated earlier.

58

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]BobParr wrote:
It is a total copout.

Look, no one questions whether there has been an incredible explosion in obesity rates over the past 25 years, right? So, if it’s genetic, where is the evidence of the mutation that took place to change the rate of the gene from about 10% of the population to almost 40% and rising in the span of just a single generation? That kind of thing doesn’t happen for no reason!

A wholesale genetic change like that would require some kind of major dosing of gamma rays or something, wouldn’t it? Sure, that’s what happened… Stop blaming fries and frosted mini wheats and video games and school recess dropping down to 10 minutes a day. It was really Chernobyl that made everyone fat!

Except, wait a minute… how then do you explain that obesity rates in India, for example, are rising too, but they are a good 15-20 years behind the U.S.? If some worldwide event like Chernobyl or a solar flare changed everyone’s DNA, then India would be on the same timetable as the west.

It’s political correctness supplanting science, just like in the days of Galileo!

No wonder they say your real education begins after you finish school. You have to unlearn all the drivel you were taught.[/quote]

There’s absolutely a genetic componenet to obesity. In a VERY small percentage of the cases. So I wouldn’t say it’s a total copout for everyone, but a good majority of the people, yeah sure it is.

As I said before, there’s some very interesting research with ob/ob and db/db parabiotic mice that demonstrates the genetic component of obesity[/quote]

There is a genetic component in 100% of the cases.

Otherwise they would not be obese.[/quote]

So, it’s their genetics fault that they don’t exercise and eat like crap? I don’t buy it.
[/quote]

On a very fundamental level, if you could not store fat, you would not.

On a less fundamental level, there were studies with prisoners who were overfed for months.

One guy ate 10000 calories a day for 9 months and gained… a whopping 4,5 lbs.

I can do that on a weekend.
[/quote]

50 years old study that ignored the activity levels and personal calorie needs of inmates.

59

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:

[quote]relentless2120 wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Remember when were kids in high school and they showed those terrible movies of the concentration camps, usually a prisoner was only in those for 6 months at the maximum. I did not see one fat person.

Adult onset diabetes is Culinary not Hereditary. Only diabetes that is Hereditary is Type 1.

Most type 2 diabetes is completely controllable with no medicine or insulin if proper eating habits and exercise is in place.

I have been a pt for 14 years now and work with Diabetics all the time and Obese people, guess what they all have very poor eating habits. Every single one.

Facts can be manipulated very easy as well by “scientists” if they are backed by a grant to prove something so they can keep their grant money coming in…

How do we explain the meteoric rise in obesity ? I know it was a time release gene, not peoples lack of exercise, poor eating habits and un-willing to say it’s my fault.[/quote]

I’d sit here and copy and paste links to a dozen studies discussing genetic components to type 2 diabetes, but instead I’ll just introduce you to science direct.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science

You’re a pt and work with obese people and diabetics? So than you must also know that not all people with type 2 diabetes are obese. Strange how that happens since its entirely “culinary”

Funny how people who don’t know the science always blame “manipulation of data” and the “need for funding” to explain results they disagree with, even when they have no experience in the field the research was performed in.

[/quote]

I didn’t say obesity equals diabetes or vice versa. But I did say their eating habits were very poor and both usually are very sedentary.

Ok whatever… you go on with your views and I will keep on helping people out who want to take control of themselves and quit looking for excuses and explanations as why they are fat or became diabetic.

[/quote]

Not to stir the pot, but Fish I had a lot of patients that were not obese and ate normal diets and were type 2 diabetics. Type 2 has been a recognized diagnosis for more than the last few years.

As with anything in Medicine and dealing with the human body there is a multitude of factors.

How do people who never drink alcohol get liver cancer? How do people who never smoke get lung cancer?

Your experience is fucking awesome and you are helping a ton of people, but here is what my medical opinion is. The people you treat would get Type 2 at some point in their life, but their dietary habits created it early in life instead of later. While you are doing remarkable things and you may have a ton of people that you get off medicine at this point in there life. BUT someday diet will not control it enough and they will be back on Meds no matter what diet they are on.

60

With a few exceptions, this thread wreaks of ignorance and hate. And this is coming from someone who can eat whatever he wants all day all week, do no cardio and still be lean and have muscle definition.