Obama's Speech

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]dhickey wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Foreign aid is one of these - it is within the ambit of the power, even if you hate it with all your might.

i am not sure how you are drawing the distinction here. a loose interpretation of general welfare to redistribute a large portion of the countries wealth is constitutional or not? a loose interpretation of interstate commerse to regulate any commerse they wish, interstate or not, is unconstitutional or not?

If your answer to either is no, why is the common defense clause any different?
[/quote]

As a brief aside …

Foreign Aid (also known as “Official Development Assistance” or ODA) is hovering between .1~.23 percent of GNI. MUCH smaller than most assume. http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,3343,en_2649_34447_1893129_1_1_1_1,00.html
(look at the first table in the link).

For a good look at the debate, check out Roger Riddell’s Does Foreign Aid Really Work?.

62

Arguing the constitutionality of an act is far less important than understanding in which ways that act might affect The Republic. Giving foreign aid may or may not be constitutional - it all depends on how The Constitution is interpreted and by what parameters “context” is defined. The actual effects of foreign aid (to use that example) are much more tangible.

Let me pose this question: What has giving foreign aid to third world Africa done to protect The Republic, or benefit it in any tangible way?

63

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Foreign aid is one of these - it is within the ambit of the power, even if you hate it with all your might.

i am not sure how you are drawing the distinction here. a loose interpretation of general welfare to redistribute a large portion of the countries wealth is constitutional or not? a loose interpretation of interstate commerse to regulate any commerse they wish, interstate or not, is unconstitutional or not?

If your answer to either is no, why is the common defense clause any different?

As a brief aside …

Foreign Aid (also known as “Official Development Assistance” or ODA) is hovering between .1~.23 percent of GNI. MUCH smaller than most assume. http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,3343,en_2649_34447_1893129_1_1_1_1,00.html
(look at the first table in the link).

For a good look at the debate, check out Roger Riddell’s Does Foreign Aid Really Work?.

[/quote]

1% of an enormous amount of money is still a lot of money. Especially when its money we don’t have.

64

[quote]Unaware wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Foreign aid is one of these - it is within the ambit of the power, even if you hate it with all your might.

i am not sure how you are drawing the distinction here. a loose interpretation of general welfare to redistribute a large portion of the countries wealth is constitutional or not? a loose interpretation of interstate commerse to regulate any commerse they wish, interstate or not, is unconstitutional or not?

If your answer to either is no, why is the common defense clause any different?

As a brief aside …

Foreign Aid (also known as “Official Development Assistance” or ODA) is hovering between .1~.23 percent of GNI. MUCH smaller than most assume. Financing for sustainable development - OECD
(look at the first table in the link).

For a good look at the debate, check out Roger Riddell’s Does Foreign Aid Really Work?.

1% of an enormous amount of money is still a lot of money. Especially when its money we don’t have. [/quote]

Just a quick clarification. No country gives 1%, most aren’t even close. It’s about POINT one percent. This is still a fair bit of money though, given the size of our economy. It is, however, a much smaller amount when compared with the percentages of GNI from other developed countries. Now, US citizens also give a large amount, which, I believe although I don’t have the stats in front of me, just about doubles the amount (or did in previous years). You can see for yourself where that number puts us on the chart.

65

[quote]Jason.Kanzler wrote:

Let me pose this question: What has giving foreign aid to third world Africa done to protect The Republic, or benefit it in any tangible way?[/quote]

This is a good question, and why I posted the link to the book. A sub-question, why are you only including “third world Africa”?

Anyway, a quick framing of the debate is to look at the purpose behind Foreign Aid now and historically. It’s primary purpose is “geo-politic/strategic.” Egypt gets a lot of money b/c they don’t threaten Israel anymore, Mobutu (Congo/Zaire) got a lot because he was against communism. The list goes on.

The second reason is commercial. US businesses greatly benefit from US foreign aid. Take for example sending a lot of grain to places in SS Africa. Now this kind of “dumping” has been shown to undercut existing economies, why is it still done? Because US farmers send it on US ships…

A distant third reason is humanitarian purposes and “development” (remember ODA is supposed to stand for “official DEVELOPMENT assistance”). Without a doubt, a lot of people at USAID are amazing folks who sacrifice a lot and are really trying to make a great difference in the world… but that doesn’t mean the Secretary of State (or the former heads of USAID) used that as their primary motivation for giving.

So, I’ve probably rambled on a bit too much, but to answer your question… Foreign Aid is supposed to make us safer, “richer” (or at least some members of our society), and help us to “do good.” If it actually does any of that is a very contentious debate amongst policymakers and academics. See the recent “spat” between Bill Easterly and Jeffrey Sachs for more information.

IMO that foreign aid has done some good, and would do a lot more if we could cut out “#2” a lot more (I’m not so foolish as to think we’ll somehow move #3 up to the first position).

66

hmm . . .he’s still an arrogant prick trying to tell everyone how to live their lives according to his values and his vision of socialism . . . .

67

[quote]Chushin wrote:
So, will an Arab and/or Muslim leader now reciprocate and make a public showing of their “respect” for Christianity and Western civilization? [/quote]

Why do people insist that Arabs/Muslims in general hate Christians?? or undermine them in any way?? check copts here in Egypt for example they are very close to us they even attack other christians who badmouth us saying that we’ve lived in harmony for years and that no one should stick his nose in it. I for example have more christian friends than muslim ones, and if u check the most succesful business men in Egypt they are christians , one of them called sawiras did something really really respectful last Ramadan - our holy month- he sent trucks of food and clothing for the poor on his own expense and he initiated a project for replannin and reconstructing the poors homes and built new housing for the young couple who want to get married for a fraction of the price.

68

[quote]Jason.Kanzler wrote:
Arguing the constitutionality of an act is far less important than understanding in which ways that act might affect The Republic. Giving foreign aid may or may not be constitutional - it all depends on how The Constitution is interpreted and by what parameters “context” is defined. The actual effects of foreign aid (to use that example) are much more tangible.

Let me pose this question: What has giving foreign aid to third world Africa done to protect The Republic, or benefit it in any tangible way?[/quote]

To support “Democracy”, countries that are on the side of Israel, countries that let us hold soldiers and military equipment and bases in their borders. We as well give foreign aid in order to allow US business to function in their countries, as well as if you group World Bank into foreign aid, it allows us to control their governments and how they run the country. Countries in “third world Africa,” take our foreign aid in exchange for letting us harvest their Natural Resources.

69

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Unaware wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Foreign aid is one of these - it is within the ambit of the power, even if you hate it with all your might.

i am not sure how you are drawing the distinction here. a loose interpretation of general welfare to redistribute a large portion of the countries wealth is constitutional or not? a loose interpretation of interstate commerse to regulate any commerse they wish, interstate or not, is unconstitutional or not?

If your answer to either is no, why is the common defense clause any different?

As a brief aside …

Foreign Aid (also known as “Official Development Assistance” or ODA) is hovering between .1~.23 percent of GNI. MUCH smaller than most assume. http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,3343,en_2649_34447_1893129_1_1_1_1,00.html
(look at the first table in the link).

For a good look at the debate, check out Roger Riddell’s Does Foreign Aid Really Work?.

1% of an enormous amount of money is still a lot of money. Especially when its money we don’t have.

Just a quick clarification. No country gives 1%, most aren’t even close. It’s about POINT one percent. This is still a fair bit of money though, given the size of our economy. It is, however, a much smaller amount when compared with the percentages of GNI from other developed countries. Now, US citizens also give a large amount, which, I believe although I don’t have the stats in front of me, just about doubles the amount (or did in previous years). You can see for yourself where that number puts us on the chart. [/quote]

You do understand that if you look at those countries, even though percentage wise we give less, we beat out most countries extensively in the gross amount we give. Would you rather a man gives you .96 percent of his 100,000 dollars to you, or .13 of 100 million. Plus, the American public not only doubles, they triple the amount given to foreign countries. Yet, when we do it, we don’t do it with strings attached. If we had the extra money to give to them after it’s had money shaved off from every politician that has it in their hands. I’m sure we’d not only have the highest percentage of money leaving the country in the “foreign aid” category, but of course we’d have the highest amount total.

70

[quote]colleend78 wrote:
Didn’t watch it. Why waste my time??[/quote]

Spoken like a true Republican.

71

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
colleend78 wrote:
Didn’t watch it. Why waste my time??

Spoken like a true Republican.[/quote]

Smart enough to know what he is going to say, and that it has little value or substance?

72

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
Unaware wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
dhickey wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Foreign aid is one of these - it is within the ambit of the power, even if you hate it with all your might.

i am not sure how you are drawing the distinction here. a loose interpretation of general welfare to redistribute a large portion of the countries wealth is constitutional or not? a loose interpretation of interstate commerse to regulate any commerse they wish, interstate or not, is unconstitutional or not?

If your answer to either is no, why is the common defense clause any different?

As a brief aside …

Foreign Aid (also known as “Official Development Assistance” or ODA) is hovering between .1~.23 percent of GNI. MUCH smaller than most assume. http://www.oecd.org/document/9/0,3343,en_2649_34447_1893129_1_1_1_1,00.html
(look at the first table in the link).

For a good look at the debate, check out Roger Riddell’s Does Foreign Aid Really Work?.

1% of an enormous amount of money is still a lot of money. Especially when its money we don’t have.

Just a quick clarification. No country gives 1%, most aren’t even close. It’s about POINT one percent. This is still a fair bit of money though, given the size of our economy. It is, however, a much smaller amount when compared with the percentages of GNI from other developed countries. Now, US citizens also give a large amount, which, I believe although I don’t have the stats in front of me, just about doubles the amount (or did in previous years). You can see for yourself where that number puts us on the chart.

You do understand that if you look at those countries, even though percentage wise we give less, we beat out most countries extensively in the gross amount we give. [/quote]

Not just most, in gross amount the US gives more than any other country. This has been so throughout the history of foreign aid save a short time in the 90s when Japan led the US.

[quote]
Would you rather a man gives you .96 percent of his 100,000 dollars to you, or .13 of 100 million. Plus, the American public not only doubles, they triple the amount given to foreign countries. Yet, when we do it, we don’t do it with strings attached. If we had the extra money to give to them after it’s had money shaved off from every politician that has it in their hands. I’m sure we’d not only have the highest percentage of money leaving the country in the “foreign aid” category, but of course we’d have the highest amount total.[/quote]

Private donations have a huge impact, but they have a lot of problems as well. The biggest problem is that they often don’t address the underlying issues. Direct ODA and multilateral donations often are more effective for addressing these issues.

It’s a complex thing, there is no doubt. Here’s an interesting website I just found for anyone who is interested. It gets into some of these issues and seems pretty fair.