Obama's Speech

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
well educated in Islam, who can turn the Muslim world around. [/quote]

Isn’t he trying to turn the US world around to gel with Islam?

He is not trying to turn the Muslim world around, he is trying to shape us, so we integrate to their beliefs and tolerate and accept and understand their beliefs. Fair enough…BUT…

How can we be expected to be completely tolerant of their faith and behaviors, when they are completely INTOLERANT of ours? Trust can never be established when one demands tolerance from others, yet is completely intolerant of others.

22

[quote]hedo wrote:
I watched it. Captain bullshit international version. Is he naive or deliberate?

Either way he is worse then even Carter.

An eloquent speaker will trick a lot of fools. Obama is leading the pack.[/quote]

I don’t understand. I think he’s a horrible speaker. Cold and arrogant …always. He lacks the voice influctions and passion for words and personal communication Regan had.

Did you see his Regan speech with Nancy the other day?? He acknowledged Reagan as a great president on his 100 birthday and signed some lame ass recognition bill, yet he’s dismantling everything Reagan ever stood for.

That speech was as unsincere as can be.

23

[quote]orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
tme wrote:
You haters have had more than enough time by now to digest and regurgitate all the Faux News/Lamebaugh talking points by now. So lets have it. Tell us how he undermined our interests, or kissed the feet of terrorists, or stabbed Israel in the back, or something.

jeffro? dickey? cockstar? pushy? anyone?

Disn’t waste my time watching it. Don’t watch Fox news on a regular basis. Have no idea what he said. I am sure it was amazing and prophetic. Thanks for the shout out though jackass. great thread.

Here is the speech:

From underneath the trees, we watch the sky
Confusing stars for satellites
I never dreamed that you’d be mine
But here we are, we’re here tonight

Singing Amen, I, I’m alive
Singing Amen, I, I’m alive

[Chorus:]
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we’d see the day when nobody died

And I’m singing Amen

Amen I, Amen I, I’m alive
Amen I, Amen I, Amen I, I’m alive

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We’ll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along

Singing Amen, I, I’m alive
Singing Amen, I, I’m alive
(I’m alive)

[Chorus x2]

And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be

If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we’d see the day when nobody died
When nobody died…

[Chorus]

We’d see the day, we’d see the day
When nobody died
We’d see the day, we’d see the day
When nobody died
We’d see the day when nobody died [/quote]

Just when you thought Nickelback couldn’t suck worse.

24

[quote]hedo wrote:
I watched it. Captain bullshit international version. Is he naive or deliberate?

Either way he is worse then even Carter.

An eloquent speaker will trick a lot of fools. Obama is leading the pack.[/quote]

Hedo,

I imagined listening to that speech as an Israeli.

His naive crap about nuclear disarmament (not happening), coupled with his United States being one of the larger muslim nations, added to his condescending attitude towards Ben Netanyahu, pretty much guarantees a war between Israel and iran this summer.

If that moderate doesn’t win the iranian election, the bombs will start flying.

JeffR

25

[quote]tme wrote:
You haters have had more than enough time by now to digest and regurgitate all the Faux News/Lamebaugh talking points by now. So lets have it. Tell us how he undermined our interests, or kissed the feet of terrorists, or stabbed Israel in the back, or something.

jeffro? dickey? cockstar? pushy? anyone?

[/quote]

Hey, tme.

I thought it was a well delivered speech.

However, it will accomplish nothing tangible except, perhaps, making Israel more likely to strike iran.

Jeffr

26

[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
The European media could not report his speech because they all had his cock in their mouths, which, come to think of it, is quite an accomplishment.

You should check out the Arab media and blogosphere. It’s much worse![/quote]

:slight_smile: lol what a combo meaning no disrespect:)

27

I always read these speeches rather than watch them. Have never seen exactly what people mean when they say Obama is a charismatic speaker; he has a very plain delivery, and though the speechwriting is good, it’s gotten worse the longer he’s been in politics.

I liked it. It’s essentially what I believe. I think the odds of him winning over moderate Muslims are low, but it’s worth a shot. We do often forget that Iran and Pakistan are full of people who don’t like theocracy – and Iran has an election coming up and a president who’s losing his popularity.

I expected there to be something in the speech that sounded like capitulation, and there really wasn’t, only common sense. There wasn’t any anti-Israel pandering. There weren’t any promises to do things that we shouldn’t be doing. An appeal to tolerance? I don’t have a problem with that.

28

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
I always read these speeches rather than watch them. Have never seen exactly what people mean when they say Obama is a charismatic speaker; he has a very plain delivery, and though the speechwriting is good, it’s gotten worse the longer he’s been in politics.

I liked it. It’s essentially what I believe. I think the odds of him winning over moderate Muslims are low, but it’s worth a shot. We do often forget that Iran and Pakistan are full of people who don’t like theocracy – and Iran has an election coming up and a president who’s losing his popularity.

I expected there to be something in the speech that sounded like capitulation, and there really wasn’t, only common sense. There wasn’t any anti-Israel pandering. There weren’t any promises to do things that we shouldn’t be doing. An appeal to tolerance? I don’t have a problem with that.[/quote]

Obama gets this supposed rep for being a good speaker because we don’t have any genuinely good speakers in politics today. Nothing like Daniel Hannan over there in the EU—who, whether you love or hate his conservative political views, is a fantastically good speaker. The last speaker we had here that was actually a good speaker was Reagan. That was 20+ years ago. The rest have either been terrible or passable or boring.

I’m not convinced that our old friend Ahmedinejad (sic?) is going to lose his election, in which case this speech may end up causing problems down the road. If he does lose, it could be an ok thing.

29

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
I always read these speeches rather than watch them. Have never seen exactly what people mean when they say Obama is a charismatic speaker; he has a very plain delivery, and though the speechwriting is good, it’s gotten worse the longer he’s been in politics.

I liked it. It’s essentially what I believe. I think the odds of him winning over moderate Muslims are low, but it’s worth a shot. We do often forget that Iran and Pakistan are full of people who don’t like theocracy – and Iran has an election coming up and a president who’s losing his popularity.

I expected there to be something in the speech that sounded like capitulation, and there really wasn’t, only common sense. There wasn’t any anti-Israel pandering. There weren’t any promises to do things that we shouldn’t be doing. An appeal to tolerance? I don’t have a problem with that.[/quote]

The only comment I will make on this is that we don’t need to win anyone over. We (and our $)just need to get out of the middle east. There is no reason for us (and our $)to be there. Leave them to their AKs and camels. They’ll sort things out themselves.

30

I hadn’t heard of Hannan, but I’m very impressed. Looked at his blog – I’m surprised a politician can get away with being so intelligent in public.

dhickey – I can see your point, but I don’t entirely see things that way. I can’t be indifferent to the welfare of everybody outside the US. Partly from humanitarian concern, and partly because, in these mobile times, I have friends, family, and associates living in the Middle East and the Muslim world. If Rehovot or Rawalpindi is under terrorist attack, people who matter to me will get hurt. If Afghanistan goes sour, there goes any chance of girls getting an education; instead they’ll get stoned for “adultery.” Is that supposed to be irrelevant to US foreign policy? I don’t think we can impose democracy by the sword either, but if there are practical things we can do to limit extremism, I think we should. (War is much more expensive than aid, by the way.)

31

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
I hadn’t heard of Hannan, but I’m very impressed. Looked at his blog – I’m surprised a politician can get away with being so intelligent in public.

dhickey – I can see your point, but I don’t entirely see things that way. I can’t be indifferent to the welfare of everybody outside the US. Partly from humanitarian concern, and partly because, in these mobile times, I have friends, family, and associates living in the Middle East and the Muslim world. If Rehovot or Rawalpindi is under terrorist attack, people who matter to me will get hurt. If Afghanistan goes sour, there goes any chance of girls getting an education; instead they’ll get stoned for “adultery.” Is that supposed to be irrelevant to US foreign policy? I don’t think we can impose democracy by the sword either, but if there are practical things we can do to limit extremism, I think we should. (War is much more expensive than aid, by the way.)[/quote]

It is supposed to be irrelavent to US foreign policy. If private citizens want to take an interest in foreign affairs, spectacular. Forcably envolving the entire country in the worlds problems is unconstitutional. This includes military intervension, aid, pissing people off, etc.

32

[quote]dhickey wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
I hadn’t heard of Hannan, but I’m very impressed. Looked at his blog – I’m surprised a politician can get away with being so intelligent in public.

dhickey – I can see your point, but I don’t entirely see things that way. I can’t be indifferent to the welfare of everybody outside the US. Partly from humanitarian concern, and partly because, in these mobile times, I have friends, family, and associates living in the Middle East and the Muslim world. If Rehovot or Rawalpindi is under terrorist attack, people who matter to me will get hurt. If Afghanistan goes sour, there goes any chance of girls getting an education; instead they’ll get stoned for “adultery.” Is that supposed to be irrelevant to US foreign policy? I don’t think we can impose democracy by the sword either, but if there are practical things we can do to limit extremism, I think we should. (War is much more expensive than aid, by the way.)

It is supposed to be irrelavent to US foreign policy. If private citizens want to take an interest in foreign affairs, spectacular. Forcably envolving the entire country in the worlds problems is unconstitutional. This includes military intervension, aid, pissing people off, etc.
[/quote]

So, from your understanding, almost everything from the Treaty of Paris forward has been unconstitutional?

33

[quote]hedo wrote:
I watched it. Captain bullshit international version. Is he naive or deliberate?

Either way he is worse then even Carter.

An eloquent speaker will trick a lot of fools. Obama is leading the pack.[/quote]

I said a year ago this guy was Jimmy Cater part two, but more clueless. I’m amazed at how a fool can graduate from Harvard. Or not.

34

[quote]dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
tme wrote:
You haters have had more than enough time by now to digest and regurgitate all the Faux News/Lamebaugh talking points by now. So lets have it. Tell us how he undermined our interests, or kissed the feet of terrorists, or stabbed Israel in the back, or something.

jeffro? dickey? cockstar? pushy? anyone?

Disn’t waste my time watching it. Don’t watch Fox news on a regular basis. Have no idea what he said. I am sure it was amazing and prophetic. Thanks for the shout out though jackass. great thread.

Here is the speech:

From underneath the trees, we watch the sky
Confusing stars for satellites
I never dreamed that you’d be mine
But here we are, we’re here tonight

Singing Amen, I, I’m alive
Singing Amen, I, I’m alive

[Chorus:]
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we’d see the day when nobody died

And I’m singing Amen

Amen I, Amen I, I’m alive
Amen I, Amen I, Amen I, I’m alive

And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We’ll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along

Singing Amen, I, I’m alive
Singing Amen, I, I’m alive
(I’m alive)

[Chorus x2]

And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be

If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we’d see the day when nobody died
When nobody died…

[Chorus]

We’d see the day, we’d see the day
When nobody died
We’d see the day, we’d see the day
When nobody died
We’d see the day when nobody died

more substance than I would have guessed. I am sorry I missed it.[/quote]

That was an awesome speech! I hope it comes out on DVD soon, so I can save it for my grandchildren, ya know.

35

It was a saccharine speech, and more about Obama than anything else. I don’t think it was altogether bad - it had some noteworthy themes - but it was not a foreign policy speech. It was a campaign speech - at the end of it, even those who liked it were forced to ask the question: “so what?”. It was not indicative of any leadership or substantive policy - it was designed to strike a tone that would get the Middle East to “like” Obama.

As such, Obama almost sounded as if he was a private citizen making the speech, not the chief executive of the US or its top mouthpiece of American foreign policy. His tone suggested he was representing his own views, rather than the country’s. It is a distinction that may come to hurt him as countries around the world (not just Middle Eastern countries) see his narcissistic speechmaking as a sign of weakness or uncertainty at the executive level.

36

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
dhickey wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
I hadn’t heard of Hannan, but I’m very impressed. Looked at his blog – I’m surprised a politician can get away with being so intelligent in public.

dhickey – I can see your point, but I don’t entirely see things that way. I can’t be indifferent to the welfare of everybody outside the US. Partly from humanitarian concern, and partly because, in these mobile times, I have friends, family, and associates living in the Middle East and the Muslim world. If Rehovot or Rawalpindi is under terrorist attack, people who matter to me will get hurt. If Afghanistan goes sour, there goes any chance of girls getting an education; instead they’ll get stoned for “adultery.” Is that supposed to be irrelevant to US foreign policy? I don’t think we can impose democracy by the sword either, but if there are practical things we can do to limit extremism, I think we should. (War is much more expensive than aid, by the way.)

It is supposed to be irrelavent to US foreign policy. If private citizens want to take an interest in foreign affairs, spectacular. Forcably envolving the entire country in the worlds problems is unconstitutional. This includes military intervension, aid, pissing people off, etc.

So, from your understanding, almost everything from the Treaty of Paris forward has been unconstitutional?[/quote]

It is unconstitutional to forcably make individuals pay for foreign aid, hundreds of military bases overseas, and actions that are not directly related to the security of this country.

37

[quote]dhickey wrote:

It is unconstitutional to forcably make individuals pay for foreign aid, hundreds of military bases overseas, and actions that are not directly related to the security of this country.[/quote]

Incorrect. Just because you think something is bad policy doesn’t mean its “unconstitutional”.

38

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
dhickey wrote:

It is unconstitutional to forcably make individuals pay for foreign aid, hundreds of military bases overseas, and actions that are not directly related to the security of this country.

Incorrect. Just because you think something is bad policy doesn’t mean its “unconstitutional”.[/quote]

What part of the constitution authorizes the federal gov’t to take our money and give it to foreign countries?

What part of the constitution authorizes the federal gov’t to take our money to protect other countries?

If they want to hire our armed forces out like merconaries, fine. Just don’t ask me to pay for it.

39

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
It was a saccharine speech, and more about Obama than anything else. I don’t think it was altogether bad - it had some noteworthy themes - but it was not a foreign policy speech. It was a campaign speech - at the end of it, even those who liked it were forced to ask the question: “so what?”. It was not indicative of any leadership or substantive policy - it was designed to strike a tone that would get the Middle East to “like” Obama.

As such, Obama almost sounded as if he was a private citizen making the speech, not the chief executive of the US or its top mouthpiece of American foreign policy. His tone suggested he was representing his own views, rather than the country’s. It is a distinction that may come to hurt him as countries around the world (not just Middle Eastern countries) see his narcissistic speechmaking as a sign of weakness or uncertainty at the executive level.[/quote]

This is actually true – most of his speeches have that campaign quality. He’s stretching the personal story a little thin, by now. He’s unique, I think, in being a president whose first major political accomplishment was a staggeringly good campaign, and I have the sense that he never really got out of the “candidate” role. And notice that people still talk about him in pro and con terms, as Obama supporters and opponents, as though he were still running for election. It’s weird, and I don’t entirely know what to make of it.

The Middle East does like Obama. The Arab commentariat was very enthusiastic. A good chunk of the Israeli press was, as well. This was a good will speech, and it might actually create some good will; as usual for Obama, the speech is crafted so that there are no promises, but everybody can infer that something good is coming their way. I don’t think we can make a lot of predictions beyond that.

And dhickey: foreign aid isn’t among Congress’s enumerated powers, no. But courts long ago stopped striking down laws as unconstitutional on those grounds. That’s not how the law works, as interpreted for the past hundred years.

40

[quote]dhickey wrote:

What part of the constitution authorizes the federal gov’t to take our money and give it to foreign countries?

What part of the constitution authorizes the federal gov’t to take our money to protect other countries?[/quote]

To lay and collect taxes top provide for the common defense, Article I, Section 8. Couple that with the Treaty Clause.

You might disagree that foreign aid doesn’t help out our “common defense”, but that is a political question, not a legal one. And common sense dictates you don’t want a judiciary acting as a de facto hall monitor on the executive branch’s foreign policy decisions.

If you think foreign aid is bad, put on your good suit, run for office, and convince your elected colleagues to change the law. But it isn’t “unconstitutional”.