[quote]pushharder wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Are the Bush and Cheney apologists here aware that we had an AMERICAN CITIZEN held without trial for three and a half years because Bush designated him an “enemy combatant”? None of you have ever heard of Jose Padilla?
Maybe the more important question is, “Was he one?”[/quote]
Maybe the even more important question is," How will we ever know for sure now?"
I guess we have to torture EVERYONE.
If nothing happens, we can always pretend it was due to our hard work with the waterboard.
Hey, I guess Hitler was just trying to protect the German people from evil Jews. He saved 25 million German lives by having just 9-12 million Jews destroyed. That sounds about right.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
orion wrote:
pushharder wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Are the Bush and Cheney apologists here aware that we had an AMERICAN CITIZEN held without trial for three and a half years because Bush designated him an “enemy combatant”? None of you have ever heard of Jose Padilla?
Maybe the more important question is, “Was he one?”
Maybe the even more important question is," How will we ever know for sure now?"
Well, we could waterboard him and find out. Then we would’ve done it to a grand total of four individuals.[/quote]
So not only should we ignore the habeas corpus rights of an American citizen on the whim of a president, we should torture him too?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
orion wrote:
pushharder wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Are the Bush and Cheney apologists here aware that we had an AMERICAN CITIZEN held without trial for three and a half years because Bush designated him an “enemy combatant”? None of you have ever heard of Jose Padilla?
Maybe the more important question is, “Was he one?”
Maybe the even more important question is," How will we ever know for sure now?"
Well, we could waterboard him and find out. Then we would’ve done it to a grand total of four individuals.[/quote]
That´s great.
We should do that more often-
Simply torture people until they confess something and then use that confession to justify torture.
And I also agree that people like Pelosi, Reid, Biden or Cheney should have such powers.
What could possibly go wrong?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
pushharder wrote:
orion wrote:
pushharder wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Are the Bush and Cheney apologists here aware that we had an AMERICAN CITIZEN held without trial for three and a half years because Bush designated him an “enemy combatant”? None of you have ever heard of Jose Padilla?
Maybe the more important question is, “Was he one?”
Maybe the even more important question is," How will we ever know for sure now?"
Well, we could waterboard him and find out. Then we would’ve done it to a grand total of four individuals.
So not only should we ignore the habeas corpus rights of an American citizen on the whim of a president, we should torture him too?
C’mon man, you know I was joking around.
[/quote]
That was the hope. But you still seem remarkably unconcerned about enormous abuses of executive power.
Obama by knockout in the first round imo.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Fergy wrote:
Obama by knockout in the first round imo.
How valuable is your opinion?[/quote]
I hear the going rate is two cents.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Fergy wrote:
Obama by knockout in the first round imo.
How valuable is your opinion?[/quote]
Hey, just like every right winger can say whatever the fuck they want he has the right to say whatever the fuck he wants.
[quote]orion wrote:
hedo wrote:
Commentary about the speech’s. The mere fact that Obama chose to attack a previous administration, to the degree he has, is a clar sign he isn’t ready to govern. His handlers unfortunately are worse then he is.
I think that he does not call a spade a spade will ultimately hurt him more.
But I don�´t give a fuck.
That someone can knowingly break US law in public and get away with it because he is powerful enough marks the end of the republic.
The rest is… there is a German quote:
When a battle starts, everything is already over (as in: decided) except for the noise.
Meaning, the outcome was decided long before.
The day that the Bush administration could get away with disappearing people (They kidnapped EU citizens in broad daylight. You think it never happened inside the USA? Suckers), torturing some people, lie about it in public, that day it was all over.
Except for the noise.
[/quote]
German military quotes as a source of wisdom. Now that’s funny.
I’ll stick with Cheney.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Dick Cheney vs. David Petraeus:
"More on today’s Obama and Cheney speeches in due course, but first another bout: Dick Cheney vs David Petraeus. Cheney argued today that:
If fine speech-making, appeals to reason, or pleas for compassion had the power to move them, the terrorists would long ago have abandoned the field. And when they see the American government caught up in arguments about interrogations, or whether foreign terrorists have constitutional rights, they donâ??t stand back in awe of our legal system and wonder whether they had misjudged us all along.
Instead the terrorists see just what they were hoping for â?? our unity gone, our resolve shaken, our leaders distracted. In short, they see weakness and opportunity.
In the other corner, in 2007 General Petraeus wrote to US and allied troops srving in Iraq warning them that:
Our values and the laws governing warfare teach us to respect human dignity, maintain our integrity, and do what is right. Adherence to our values distinguishes us from our enemy. This fight depends on securing the population, which must understand that we - not our enemies - occupy the moral high ground.
This strategy has shown results in recent months. Al Qaeda’s indiscriminate attacks, for example, have finally started to turn a substantial proportion of the Iraqi population against it.
In view of this, I was concerned by the results of a recently released survey conducted last fall in Iraq that revealed an apparent unwillingness on the part of some US personnel to report illegal actions taken by fellow members of their units. The study also indicated that a small percentage of those surveyed may have mistreated noncombatants. This survey should spur reflection on our conduct in combat.
I fully appreciate the emotions that one experiences in Iraq. I also know firsthand the bonds between members of the "brotherhood of the close fight." Seeing a fellow trooper killed by a barbaric enemy can spark frustration, anger, and a desire for immediate revenge.
As hard as it might be, however, we must not let these emotions lead us - or our comrades in arms - to commit hasty, illegal actions. In the event that we witness or hear of such actions, we must not let our bonds prevent us from speaking up.
Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary.
Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone “talk;” however, what the individual says may be of questionable value. In fact, our experience in applying the interrogation standards laid out in the Army Field Manual (2-22.3) on Human Intelligence Collector Operations that was published last year shows that the techniques in the manual work effectively and humanely in eliciting information from detainees.
I know whose side I’m on in this fight, but I guess General Petraeus is another guy with a 9/10 mindset who wants to see America defeated."
http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/3638251/dick-cheney-vs-david-petraeus.thtml[/quote]
I’ll ask the General for you. I’m going to meet him at June at an Army celebration at which he is speaking. I’m going to speculate that he doesn’t have as much goodwill for the terrorists in captivity as you think he does.