Obama to Small Business Owners

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Well it is nice to inherit a business and you should thank your grandfather and father they set you up in a great position. I was not that lucky I had to do it myself. And I can tell you from first hand experience that one big enemy of business, small or large is government in the form of regulation and taxes. And that’s without even addressing the outlandish inheritance tax where the government swoops in and takes 55% of every dime you leave your children.

Basically government IS the enemy and the less of it the better!

That’s why Obama must go.

And if you think Obama helped you by extending unemployment think again. He will be back around with the biggest tax hike on business in the history of the country it’s called national health care.

One more point, I have no idea of your corporate entity but if it is an “S” or “LLC” your income flows through the company directly to you. That means that you are one of the evil rich! And as of January first if Obama has his way you will be paying 5% more on your income taxes.

You’re not paying attention if you actually think government is not your enemy and you think Obama has helped you—But thanks for the laugh. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

A few things on this: there are plenty of ways around that huge inheritance tax, you should know this.[/quote]

So what you are saying is that there are ways (not as many as you may think) to get around the gigantic boulder that government threw down in front of us in order to steal our money so that we cannot pass it along to our children.

Now tell me how government is our friend again?

I did not address this point, I gave you that one. But if a man walks along side of you and places a dime in your pocket but steals your wallet would you call that help? My point is simple, fine unemployment helped your employees…great! But the fleecing of you (and them) that is taking place and will only grow larger far outweighs any temporary help that you think you got.

Well there you go. You don’t care about handing government more of your hard earned money, most of us who didn’t inherit wealth and had to work hard to achieve really don’t like it when government picks our pocket (see above). Also, your dearly beloved employees will also end up paying far more in taxes. Unless you are one of the fools who believes that government can run this monstrosity by only stealing from the rich. You don’t think that…do you? He has to reach his hand inside the middle class pocket and take what is needed or the helath care law falls flat. And one more thing tell me again how much you like government threatening to jail you if you don’t comply with the new health care law. Do you get a tingle up your leg like Chris Matthews when you think of your hero Obama?

I would probably feel the same way if someone handed me a business like your father did you. But I grew up in something very close to poverty and worked my up to own my own business and resent the government, which is inefficient to begin with, trying to grab more of my cash to run an over bloated power grabbing bureaucracy.

I’m sure most federal government workers and those on the public dole feel the way you do.

So I guess it all has to do with perspective.

62

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Anyone who says government helped them with their business is either an idiot or truly been mislead.
[/quote]

I think one argument is that the education you received that gave you the tools to open and run a business was govt funded. The military that protects the nation so you are free to run a business is govt funded. [/quote]

  1. You mean the education that I got prior to college? The one that was paid for in tax dollars both income and property…that education? Or do you mean the college education that I paid for myself by working nights? Which one?

  2. Do you mean the military that is paid for (in part) with my tax dollars? Taxes higher than more than 90% of the people in the US pay?

I don’t want to be rude to you but you are in over your head and are quite clueless my friend.

The DNC talking points just don’t cut it in the real world!

63

haha

spin spin spin

64

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
An extra 5 percent tax is not a big deal.[/quote]

LOL.

Speak for yourself homie. I would much rather that 5% went into my daughter’s 529, my son’s 529 or my 401k.

Fuck giving it to people that are going to piss it away, without at least bitching about it.[/quote]

You don’t understand he inherited his business, 5% is no big deal to him.

65

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

My business would have survived either way, the whole point is that my employees ALL kept their jobs. If the law hadn’t been what it was, layoffs would have happened. Obama’s policies kept people employed.[/quote]

Obama has not created one single job while President of the US. Did you know that? No probably not.

-46 straight months of unemployment over 8%, not including the depression this is a record.

-Debt at almost 16 trillion! That is 6 trillion more than when he took office!

-A power grab (called national health care) that puts 1/6th of the economy under government control.

Yeah, your boy Obama is quite the man!

But I suppose your posts are at least entertaining please keep it up we needed something like this.

LOL[/quote]

you’re so entrenched in your own political dogma, there’s zero point in arguing with you.

keep in mind, my post was just anecdotal. I stated that. I think it’s funny that you’re making all these arguments that don’t particularly refute or even relate to my original post, or the ramifications of what’s happened with the specific benefit I was talking about. The bottom line of what I said originally was that the policy prevented layoffs. Isn’t the fact that jobs weren’t lost (that otherwise absolutely would have been) tantamount to job creation? Just curious if that crossed your mind, since you said not one job was created. Job loss, in this circumstance, was prevented.
[/quote]

I already addressed this point. He gives you a dime and takes five dollars in other ways. that’s not a good deal not at all.

As for me being entrenched in political dogma my points above are either right or they’re wrong. Which is it?

You see unlike in 08’ when guys like you were fooled into believing the hope and change nonsense Obama now has a record to run on and quite frankly it sucks! Do we not address that and pretend that it’s 08 all over again?

NOPE!

And one more thing, if Obama had even a decent record to run on do you think he would be attacking Mitt Romney for being a rich guy? You only do that stuff when you have nothing else.

66

Inheriting wealth is not the same as inheriting a small business. You may not feel the same way, but it’s not. It would have been if I had turned around and sold the business upon inheritance, translating it directly to wealth. I’ve instead kept the business going because I appreciate the fact that my family built this, and our name is on the front of the building.

I started working for this company doing manual labor when I was 15. I did every single job at our shop, cutting gaskets, electrical work, machine operation, welding, painting, everything. I didn’t get out of the manual labor until I was 24 (and really I still do shop jobs as required). I went to public schools through high school, and went to a private university on a full scholarship (national merit scholarship and others). I’m not the spoiled rich kid who inherited a business and has no concept of what a dollar means (I PROMISE you this business has not always brought my family money). I’ve made a lot of my own luck, and I could be making at least as much money doing other things. I’m not rich as it is. I make less than 6 figures, and split profits equally amongst my employees in the form of year-end bonuses. I don’t need inherited wealth, so I couldn’t care less if the government took 90 percent of it.

The comments about the affinity you think I have for Obama are unnecessary as well. It’s a worthless argument tactic when you’re arguing with someone with at least a modicum of intelligence.

67

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Inheriting wealth is not the same as inheriting a small business. You may not feel the same way, but it’s not. It would have been if I had turned around and sold the business upon inheritance, translating it directly to wealth. I’ve instead kept the business going because I appreciate the fact that my family built this, and our name is on the front of the building.

I started working for this company doing manual labor when I was 15. I did every single job at our shop, cutting gaskets, electrical work, machine operation, welding, painting, everything. I didn’t get out of the manual labor until I was 24 (and really I still do shop jobs as required). I went to public schools through high school, and went to a private university on a full scholarship (national merit scholarship and others). I’m not the spoiled rich kid who inherited a business and has no concept of what a dollar means (I PROMISE you this business has not always brought my family money). I’ve made a lot of my own luck, and I could be making at least as much money doing other things. I’m not rich as it is. I make less than 6 figures, and split profits equally amongst my employees in the form of year-end bonuses. I don’t need inherited wealth, so I couldn’t care less if the government took 90 percent of it.

The comments about the affinity you think I have for Obama are unnecessary as well. It’s a worthless argument tactic when you’re arguing with someone with at least a modicum of intelligence.[/quote]

Sweet, Bill Gates isn’t that wealthy. He just has business ownership…

68

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I don’t need inherited wealth, so I couldn’t care less if the government took 90 percent of it.

[/quote]

Well comrade, that is where you and most folks who don’t get a monthly government check differ.

69

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
An extra 5 percent tax is not a big deal.[/quote]

LOL.

Speak for yourself homie. I would much rather that 5% went into my daughter’s 529, my son’s 529 or my 401k.

Fuck giving it to people that are going to piss it away, without at least bitching about it.[/quote]

NO no no…

I expect him to back this up by mailing me 5% of his income. CB, you should get him to send you 5% also. [/quote]

Good point.

My new buisness, that you all will run, because Obama said so, is the collection of your money for zero return. And if my profits are a tad too high I will give you a tiny rebate, like .03%.

So, you can all send your checks, worth a small 4% of gross income to PO BOX 879, Assrape, MA 01877.

And, I will make the deposits, the rest of you can fight over who does what administrative task, because you know, business owners don’t build their businesses.

(And I managed to slam obamacare in there too. So happy with myself.)

70

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Inheriting wealth is not the same as inheriting a small business. You may not feel the same way, but it’s not. It would have been if I had turned around and sold the business upon inheritance, translating it directly to wealth. I’ve instead kept the business going because I appreciate the fact that my family built this, and our name is on the front of the building.

I started working for this company doing manual labor when I was 15. I did every single job at our shop, cutting gaskets, electrical work, machine operation, welding, painting, everything. I didn’t get out of the manual labor until I was 24 (and really I still do shop jobs as required). I went to public schools through high school, and went to a private university on a full scholarship (national merit scholarship and others). I’m not the spoiled rich kid who inherited a business and has no concept of what a dollar means (I PROMISE you this business has not always brought my family money). I’ve made a lot of my own luck, and I could be making at least as much money doing other things. I’m not rich as it is. I make less than 6 figures, and split profits equally amongst my employees in the form of year-end bonuses. I don’t need inherited wealth, so I couldn’t care less if the government took 90 percent of it.

The comments about the affinity you think I have for Obama are unnecessary as well. It’s a worthless argument tactic when you’re arguing with someone with at least a modicum of intelligence.[/quote]

Sweet, Bill Gates isn’t that wealthy. He just has business ownership…[/quote]

He’s only worth as much as what he can sell his company for, right (aside from money he’s taken out of the company)? In his case, that’s a ton of money, and it will likely continue to be in the future.

My company does not have the same guarantee. You sound like you think I’m running a fortune 500 company, lol. It’s way easier for my company to go under, and be worth next to nothing, and thus my own wealth would be next to nothing. Apples to oranges there.

71

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It’s way easier for my company to go under, and be worth next to nothing, and thus my own wealth would be next to nothing. [/quote]

This statement undermined your entire claim.

72

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It’s way easier for my company to go under, and be worth next to nothing, and thus my own wealth would be next to nothing. [/quote]

This statement undermined your entire claim. You just stated that the business is your wealth and you inherited the business.[/quote]

explain.

73

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Inheriting wealth is not the same as inheriting a small business. You may not feel the same way, but it’s not. It would have been if I had turned around and sold the business upon inheritance, translating it directly to wealth. I’ve instead kept the business going because I appreciate the fact that my family built this, and our name is on the front of the building.

I started working for this company doing manual labor when I was 15. I did every single job at our shop, cutting gaskets, electrical work, machine operation, welding, painting, everything. I didn’t get out of the manual labor until I was 24 (and really I still do shop jobs as required). I went to public schools through high school, and went to a private university on a full scholarship (national merit scholarship and others). I’m not the spoiled rich kid who inherited a business and has no concept of what a dollar means (I PROMISE you this business has not always brought my family money). I’ve made a lot of my own luck, and I could be making at least as much money doing other things. I’m not rich as it is. I make less than 6 figures, and split profits equally amongst my employees in the form of year-end bonuses. .[/quote]

Whoa, don’t let Obama hear you talk like this. If he thinks you feel like you earned what you have (I feel you did if the above is true) he is going to take more from you than someone who didn’t work as hard as you did.

74

you misunderstood. Bill Gates doesn’t actually have that wealth UNTIL he cashes it in. I don’t actually have the money that my company’s worth unless I sell it. Which I haven’t.

75

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It’s way easier for my company to go under, and be worth next to nothing, and thus my own wealth would be next to nothing. [/quote]

This statement undermined your entire claim. You just stated that the business is your wealth and you inherited the business.[/quote]

explain.[/quote]

This statement requires the opposite premiss that you spouted earlier that the business is not wealth.

76

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
you misunderstood. Bill Gates doesn’t actually have that wealth UNTIL he cashes it in. I don’t actually have the money that my company’s worth unless I sell it. Which I haven’t.[/quote]

LOL. By that logic, money is also not wealth until you spend it. Money is just the potential for wealth. Money in your pocket isn’t doing you any good. It isn’t wealth in and of itself.

No, I’m sorry, that’s not how the rational world thinks of wealth.

77

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Inheriting wealth is not the same as inheriting a small business. You may not feel the same way, but it’s not. It would have been if I had turned around and sold the business upon inheritance, translating it directly to wealth. I’ve instead kept the business going because I appreciate the fact that my family built this, and our name is on the front of the building.

I started working for this company doing manual labor when I was 15. I did every single job at our shop, cutting gaskets, electrical work, machine operation, welding, painting, everything. I didn’t get out of the manual labor until I was 24 (and really I still do shop jobs as required). I went to public schools through high school, and went to a private university on a full scholarship (national merit scholarship and others). I’m not the spoiled rich kid who inherited a business and has no concept of what a dollar means (I PROMISE you this business has not always brought my family money). I’ve made a lot of my own luck, and I could be making at least as much money doing other things. I’m not rich as it is. I make less than 6 figures, and split profits equally amongst my employees in the form of year-end bonuses. .[/quote]

Whoa, don’t let Obama hear you talk like this. If he thinks you feel like you earned what you have (I feel you did if the above is true) he is going to take more from you than someone who didn’t work as hard as you did.[/quote]

lol, come on man. I hate hearing arguments like this. There are plenty of legit arguments out there to make. This is just propaganda stuff. Make an argument about Obama taking more money from me because I’ve earned a higher income. Hard work and high incomes don’t necessarily go hand in hand, while high taxes and high incomes do.

78

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
An extra 5 percent tax is not a big deal.[/quote]

LOL.

Speak for yourself homie. I would much rather that 5% went into my daughter’s 529, my son’s 529 or my 401k.

Fuck giving it to people that are going to piss it away, without at least bitching about it.[/quote]

You don’t understand he inherited his business, 5% is no big deal to him. [/quote]

You know, I’ve seen it both ways.

I’ve seen the “jr” who came up, worked in the trench and is respected. I’ve also seen the “jr” who was handed the key to the kingdom.

I recommend making your child work for it.

79

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
you misunderstood. Bill Gates doesn’t actually have that wealth UNTIL he cashes it in. I don’t actually have the money that my company’s worth unless I sell it. Which I haven’t.[/quote]

LOL. By that logic, money is also not wealth until you spend it. Money is just the potential for wealth. Money in your pocket isn’t doing you any good. It isn’t wealth in and of itself.

No, I’m sorry, that’s not how the rational world thinks of wealth.[/quote]

Well, to an extent that’s really pretty true. No real guarantee that money will be worth anything in the future. But that’s not an argument I want to pursue, because it’s not necessaqry to make my point. I’m talking about a volatility issue. We can assume Bill Gates’s company will hold a high value. We can also assume american currency will retain value. The same can’t be said about the company I run. A more fair comparison would be my company to a moderately high risk stock. There’s a potential for profit there, but also a significant potential for zero return. Does that make sense?

80

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
An extra 5 percent tax is not a big deal.[/quote]

LOL.

Speak for yourself homie. I would much rather that 5% went into my daughter’s 529, my son’s 529 or my 401k.

Fuck giving it to people that are going to piss it away, without at least bitching about it.[/quote]

You don’t understand he inherited his business, 5% is no big deal to him. [/quote]

You know, I’ve seen it both ways.

I’ve seen the “jr” who came up, worked in the trench and is respected. I’ve also seen the “jr” who was handed the key to the kingdom.

I recommend making your child work for it.[/quote]

yay common ground!!! I’m absolutely for everyone carving their own place in life through hard work. It’s what draws me to lifting. Hard work is rewarded directly in my own physical presence.

That’s why I’m not a fan of the concept of inherited wealth/generational money. If you take the steps to earn your place in life, you just don’t need it. Inherited wealth, in so many cases, is a substitute for character.