Obama Supports Gay Marriage

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
801

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
Freedom should only be restricted when there is a benefit to society.[/quote]

Yes.
But then, why do you want to restrict my freedom to NOT recognize, to NOT support, to NOT fund and to NOT privilege homosexual relationships ?
[/quote]

So wait, are you saying you support everything the government uses your tax dollars for?

There are a ton of people who had their freedom “restricted” after being forced to support and a war in Iraq.
[/quote]

What “I” support or not is irrelevant here.
What “a ton of people” support or not is irrelevant here.

What matters is what “we the people” support or not.
I’m speaking about an institutionnal principle (namely : popular sovereignity) not about a number of people.
[/quote]

Huh?
[/quote]

My private interest and my personnal opinion doesn’t matter.
The sum of the private interests and personnal opinions of “a ton of people” (or even a majority of people) doesn’t matter.

In a republic, what matters is the “common good”.

[/quote]

And I’ve argued that gay marriage contributes to the “common good”

802

[quote]therajraj wrote:
well according to the latest polls, the majority of Americans support gay marriage.

[/quote]

So what? America is a representative republic not a democracy. A constitutional amendment requires two thirds of both houses and three quarters of the states to pass. That’s the process. Not a 53% score on some telephone poll.

803

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
well according to the latest polls, the majority of Americans support gay marriage.

[/quote]

So what? America is a representative republic not a democracy. A constitutional amendment requires two thirds of both houses and three quarters of the states to pass. That’s the process. Not a 53% score on some telephone poll.[/quote]

Ok. I was a little confused by what he meant by popular sovereignty.

804

By legalizing gay marriage no one is forcing you to support it, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on the issue.

805

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
By legalizing gay marriage no one is forcing you to support it, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on the issue. [/quote]

I will try another time :

a marriage is not some kind of committed relationship.
a marriage is a contract between two people and the State.
IE : a marriage is a contract between two people and EVERYONE ELSE. you and me included.

806

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
By legalizing gay marriage no one is forcing you to support it, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on the issue. [/quote]

I will try another time :

a marriage is not some kind of committed relationship.
a marriage is a contract between two people and the State.
IE : a marriage is a contract between two people and EVERYONE ELSE. you and me included. [/quote]

Is this, like, a social contract?

Something you entered into just by virtue of existing?

Because that seems to be a lot of things to a lot of people.

807

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
By legalizing gay marriage no one is forcing you to support it, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on the issue. [/quote]

I will try another time :

a marriage is not some kind of committed relationship.
a marriage is a contract between two people and the State.
IE : a marriage is a contract between two people and EVERYONE ELSE. you and me included. [/quote]

Is this, like, a social contract?

Something you entered into just by virtue of existing?

Because that seems to be a lot of things to a lot of people.[/quote]

Marriage laws may vary but
-there is always a third party that represent the State. ie : a third party that represent us.
-The State issue a marriage license, not a marriage certificate.

which means that :
-Marriage is not “self-uniting”
-It’s not a right, but a privilege.

808

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
By legalizing gay marriage no one is forcing you to support it, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on the issue. [/quote]

I will try another time :

a marriage is not some kind of committed relationship.
a marriage is a contract between two people and the State.
IE : a marriage is a contract between two people and EVERYONE ELSE. you and me included. [/quote]

Is this, like, a social contract?

Something you entered into just by virtue of existing?

Because that seems to be a lot of things to a lot of people.[/quote]

Marriage laws may vary but
-there is always a third party that represent the State. ie : a third party that represent us.
-The State issue a marriage license, not a marriage certificate.

which means that :
-Marriage is not “self-uniting”
-It’s not a right, but a privilege.

[/quote]

That is a relatively recent development and the reason was not some overarching interest of society but the financial interests of clearly identifiable institutions.

And I repeat, if it has gone on for a few decades, a conservative will defend anything.

Even the indefensible.

809

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
By legalizing gay marriage no one is forcing you to support it, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion on the issue. [/quote]

I will try another time :

a marriage is not some kind of committed relationship.
a marriage is a contract between two people and the State.
IE : a marriage is a contract between two people and EVERYONE ELSE. you and me included. [/quote]

Is this, like, a social contract?

Something you entered into just by virtue of existing?

Because that seems to be a lot of things to a lot of people.[/quote]

Marriage laws may vary but
-there is always a third party that represent the State. ie : a third party that represent us.
-The State issue a marriage license, not a marriage certificate.

which means that :
-Marriage is not “self-uniting”
-It’s not a right, but a privilege.

[/quote]

That is a relatively recent development and the reason was not some overarching interest of society but the financial interests of clearly identifiable institutions.

And I repeat, if it has gone on for a few decades, a conservative will defend anything.

Even the indefensible. [/quote]

I will admit that before modern times marriage used to be a contract between two families, under the rule of a tradition and/or a common law.

But the current definition of marriage (understood as a contract between two individuals and the State) is as old as the State itself.

Are you suggesting that we should legalize arranged marriage between people of the same sex ?

810

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
You should know better than to use the slippery slope argument, only a dull edge knife can do that.[/quote]

Why it’s a viable argument as long as it is not a fallacy.[/quote]

Here’s that slippery slope that doesn’t exist:

[Californian] State Sen. Mark Leno is pushing legislation to allow a child to have multiple parents:

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/02/4604048/california-bill-would-allow-a.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy